Artillery

[ZZuluZ]

Oddly enough, artillery (from my limited experience) seems more valuable on offence than it does on the defensive. On the defensive the enemy is a continuously moving target so it's very rare that any artillery hits them. However, on the offensive the enemy often just stands there waiting for you to come. With artillery, it seems as though you remove a great deal of the advantage that comes with being the defender. On bridge battles it has also saved the day for me.

So, how does everyone use them? How should on exploit them to their full potential? Or are they simply not worth it, all things considered?

[Aelwyn]

Always aim at the front unit, and preferably in the middle of the army. That way you have a lot more chance to hit units on the bounce, or if you're off target in any direction. It also helps if the army is moving towards you. If they are moving laterally, aim for the unit the furthest to the side they are moving to, or the one next to it, depending on your angle of fire. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif

[Quokka]

I have had the exact opposite experience with Artillery and never intentionally use it. Only in the odd instance did I ever find that it was the right unit for the right occasion.

On offence how many times has the defender setup out of range rendering the unit instantly useless? How many bridge battles have had the artillery placed correctly to even influence the battle slightly?

I find that I would rather have any other unit than Artillery. Attack infantry and cavalry regularly have 60+ kills per battle, I never saw anywhere near that for any Artillery unit. I would also rather have the minimum of two units that can be built in the same time as the Artillery unit takes to construct.

It is always a lopsided battle when the AI lines up with 3-4 Artillery pieces in their first 16, why would I ever intentionally restrict my combat ability like that?

[makkyo]

I tend to use artillery for seiges so I could take out he enemy's fortifications without th loss of men. Other than that (and the rare occasion that i use them for other when I'm out numbered).

[ichi]

This has been said before, but since you asked . . .

Arty is useful for castles, bridges, and occassionally on offense when the defender has a small spot for camping.

In castle battles bring enough to knowck two holes on opposite sides of the castle walls, maybe take out a tower, reduce the morale of the men inside.

In bridges set up with just a few pieces so that you can shoot the general as he sits just behind the bridge, or maybe shoot the defenders on the bridge (requires fairly high valor to hit here). The only useful application of an Organ Gun is on the defensive side of a bridge battle.

Sometimes in MP there will be a hill that folks will camp on. A piece or two of arty (good stuff, in Late Period usually) that has some good range can pay when the enemy is in a compact formation.

Look at the stats for units after a game. Most of the time you will see that a good cav or infantry unit kills much more. With arty you do get the morale busting effect, but my experience is that arty is not the best buy for the florins.

Go to the Jousting Fields and look at a thread 'Using Arty in MP' for more comments.

ichi

[PseRamesses]

Quote[/b] (ichi @ Jan. 17 2004,13:01)]This has been said before, but since you asked . . .

Arty is useful for castles, bridges, and occassionally on offense when the defender has a small spot for camping.

In castle battles bring enough to knowck two holes on opposite sides of the castle walls, maybe take out a tower, reduce the morale of the men inside.

In bridges set up with just a few pieces so that you can shoot the general as he sits just behind the bridge, or maybe shoot the defenders on the bridge (requires fairly high valor to hit here). The only useful application of an Organ Gun is on the defensive side of a bridge battle.

Sometimes in MP there will be a hill that folks will camp on. A piece or two of arty (good stuff, in Late Period usually) that has some good range can pay when the enemy is in a compact formation.

Look at the stats for units after a game. Most of the time you will see that a good cav or infantry unit kills much more. With arty you do get the morale busting effect, but my experience is that arty is not the best buy for the florins.

Go to the Jousting Fields and look at a thread 'Using Arty in MP' for more comments.

ichi
Personally I only use artillery in sieges. I like to have high manouverability on the battle field which I can´t have with the unmovable artillery that needs protection.

[Mummer]

Yeah, I tend to hold my artillery in my capital province until I get to a siege that I can't win by waiting, in which case I send in the artillery for the assault. The later artillery can decimate a fortress before you even lose a man, it's a spectacular sight.

[Gregoshi]

Welcome to the Org Mummer. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Shouldn't you be from Philadelphia?

[Myrano]

To me, artillery seems to be one of those units that (outside of seiges) is rarely useful but when it is good it will save your behind. In a long, drawn-out battle where the enemy sends wave after wave of reinforcements, I find it good to set up a catapult (ballistas never seem to do any good, the other two are too inflexible, and this was before gunpowder) just behind your line of men. This seemed to really help me break them. As each new wave would come, the catapult would get another few shots, and it really seemed to damage their morale.

I remember finally learning how to use arbalesters to counter the enemies missile troops (well, sort of, it's a little more complicated) so that the arbs would have time to get off multiple rounds. Perhaps artillery would be useful there to, when the enemy attacks but is stalled.

[Mummer]

Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ Jan. 19 2004,00:20)]Welcome to the Org Mummer. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Shouldn't you be from Philadelphia?
Yeah, I should be from Philladelphia because of the Mummer's Parade and all, but I like the word so much, I have to use it, even though I'm a good 250 miles to the South. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Oh, and thanks for the greeting. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

[Komutan]

I prefer serpentines.They are not much use against castles, but work well against troops.With their long range they can also be used on offensive.Ok, they don't win battles, but watching artillery shots hitting huge masses of enemy soldiers is great fun.

The only artillery I like more than serpentine is an organ gun defending a castle.Just put it behind the gate, and watch http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Count Fudgula]

I always found that artillery worked fantastically
well in big offensive bridge battles. Set up whatever
artillery you have right next to the bridge and the
opposing defensive force will back right off, allowing you
plenty of room and time to get a good group of troops
to the other side before the defender can get to you,
virtually nullifying the bridge advantage.

Also, when I first used the organ gun I had no idea that
the range was so short. I watched on with concern as I
found I could not target the knights who were charging
towards the organ gun that was on the flank of my main force.

I put the thing on fire at will and hoped something would
happen eventually (I was desperatly checking if the
bright sunny weather had anything to do with it not
firing). The knights were almost on top of them when
there was a loud crack, the knight's unit was cut in half
and they ran directly off the field. The thing didn't
even fire a second time in the battle, but it proved it's
worth I reckon.

[71-hour Ahmed]

organ guns are just fun, partic with low armoured troops. MTw isn't all about winning...

[Gregoshi]

Welcome to the Org Count Fudgula. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

I liked you little Shots in the Knight story. I think they paided for themselves and then some.

[Count Fudgula]

Thanks, Gregoshi, it's good to be here.

A subsequent attempt to use the Organ Gun led to slightly less positive results. Suffice to say, the gun was pointing a bit too close to my own troops. I laughed, I cried, I ran away

[Chaffers]

I ended up using arty extensively due to a personal obsession with beating Byz / Late / expert elegantly. 5 well tuned in Serpentines are about as sure a way to take out the enemy General as you'll find, might as well have taken a few Barrett .50 cals along. I'd say that in the majority of battles the enemy General would be toast, usually early on in the fight too.

Serps are very different to Culverins. Set up 2 or 3 Culverins on the offense, a third of the way into the map and they can hit anything at all. Whilst your armour is moving into place use the culverins to work over the enemy formation. They take a few shots to range in and arn't particulalr accurate on 0 valour, but they are a battle winner par excellence. If you can time it right then save a few shots for just before your charge into the enemy formation. Target the front ranks and charge your men when they space out to accept the arty fire. They rout on the spot in the majority of cases. If not then a volley from Arqs or Handgunners usually will rout them. Once they are out of ammo just ask them to leave the field and hopefully bring on some fast cav...

In seiges they simply make it too easy, and in bridge battles they are rediculous. Just remember that they are long range dudes, don't try to hit something at short / medium range or the accuracy is pants. Also never let a single dude from the crew die, 550 florins and 3 years to replace. Each crew member is worth more than 30 cavalry. Retraining is vital if you do lose a few, make sure you don't merge units for just this reason.

Serps are different creatures. Perfect on the defence, whether shooting onto a crowded bridge or targetting the heaviest and nastiest troops the oppo has. They are exceptionally accurate, in fact they rarely miss, causing 3-4 casualties a time. Once you've reduced a unit to 50% target another one for maximum effect. Always hit the general for obvious reasons, though on the attack you'll have to station them well forward without risking the crew.

Playing on huge units they come into their own, wreaking death, destruction and fear amongst the opposition. I once fielded 3 7 valour culverins and 5 5/6 star Serpentines against 2000 mongols on a bridge battle. Just one of the Culverins took 300 scalps.