Why only Fanatics?

[Servius]

Ever since I got the VI Xpac none of my crusades have included anything but Fanatics. I asked this before and got some replies, but none of the reasons have panned out. Here's the situation.

I have been launching Crusades from Wessex throughout the Early and now a few from the High ages. I have all the buildings necessary to make Chivalric Knights there, and the Zeal factor is between 60% and 70%. Yet every single Crusade I've launched (8 of them so far) has had nothing but Fanatics in them.

Why is this, and how do I get the OFS and Knights Templar back again?

[Voigtkampf]

Does this happen only in Wessex, or in all provinces? In every campaign or does it happen merely with some factions? Perhaps it has something with the province + faction relationship; other than that, can't tell more, I never experienced this problem.

[pdoan8]

What is the piety rating of your King?

- The number of Knight units depends on the piety rating of the King. I'm not sure if it will consider your Governor or the highest ranking in the province if your King is not there.

- The number of peasantry unit (Fanatics) depends on the zeal level of the province.

Launching crusades from high zeal provinces is not necessarily a good thing, considering that crusade has a set limit of money to spend for all units. I'm not sure how the limit is set, but you will rarely have a crusade starts with 4 knights (unless you do some modding). 2 knights + 2 Order Foot would be considered as a good start.

Crusade units don't require any building but the Chapter House. However, launch crusade from province with good number of upgrades such as armour, weapon would be better. Your crusade units will receive all of those upgrades.

[Revenant69]

Quote[/b] (pdoan8 @ Jan. 18 2004,03:37)]What is the piety rating of your King?

- The number of Knight units depends on the piety rating of the King. I'm not sure if it will consider your Governor or the highest ranking in the province if your King is not there.

- The number of peasantry unit (Fanatics) depends on the zeal level of the province.

Launching crusades from high zeal provinces is not necessarily a good thing, considering that crusade has a set limit of money to spend for all units. I'm not sure how the limit is set, but you will rarely have a crusade starts with 4 knights (unless you do some modding). 2 knights + 2 Order Foot would be considered as a good start.
WOW there is something you learn every day. I absolutely did not know that the number of knights is affected by kings piety. That is very useful info.

[Basileus]

Are you using VI+ the patch ?

[Fragony]

I believe influence has something to with it as well. But uhhhhh what year is it? Templars disappear in the late period.

[Servius]

Influence doesn't have much to do with it. I have a string of 4 kings who each had 9 Influcence, even from birth, and still nothing but fanatics.

Checking the Piety of my king and/or the governor of the provence is something I haven't checked yet, though it should be pretty high considering how many Crusades I've launched, that I'm allied to the Pope, and that I build every religious building I can in every province.

I am running VI + the patch.

I'll check the piety, but I still don't think any of these answers are right yet.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

On another note, I don't think Influence goes for much anymore. Like I said, I had 4 kings in a row with 9 Influence, and even with that I could not get a ceasefire with Spain, even though I was not at war with any of his allies. That shouldn't even matter when it comes to ceasefires anyway, only alliances. Nor could I get princesses to marry my heirs, save those from Germany, who I was at war with at the time...wth?

[Basileus]

Well thats preety strange, you could try starting a crusade from another province..you could have just been unlucky http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif

[Revenant69]

Quote[/b] (Fragony @ Jan. 18 2004,06:32)]I believe influence has something to with it as well. But uhhhhh what year is it? Templars disappear in the late period.
What, Templars dissappear in late period??? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif thats news to me, of course by the time late arrives there is no need to crusade in my games.

Do Hospitallers, Santiago and Teutons vanish too?

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Historically, Templars shouldn't be available in Late, because their Order was dissolved in 1307 by an alliance between Philippe Le Bel, Pope Boniface VIII and the English King (Edward I or II ?). They were all disposed of their possessions, emprisioned, tortured and burned at the stake on accusations of heresy.
The reason was, most historians agree, that since they were economically and politically very influent, and Philippe wanted their lands and assets, he decided to get them out of the equation of power on false accusations.

[Servius]

well, I still want my damn crusaders back.

Any more ideas?

[redrooster]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Jan. 19 2004,08:10)]Historically, Templars shouldn't be available in Late, because their Order was dissolved in 1307 by an alliance between Philippe Le Bel, Pope Boniface VIII and the English King (Edward I or II ?). They were all disposed of their possessions, emprisioned, tortured and burned at the stake on accusations of heresy.
The reason was, most historians agree, that since they were economically and politically very influent, and Philippe wanted their lands and assets, he decided to get them out of the equation of power on false accusations.
Nay Worshippers of Baphomet those black knights be

[Servius]

okay okay, I think I just came across the missing link.

A while back I had done some modding. I wanted to make it such that, if you were a crusading faction and you conquered Rome and the Papacy, you could still construct your crusader units. I did this by making each of the crusader units buildable with a Chapter House but only in Rome. It's the Roman restriction that I think is the culprit.

See, I think Crusades are actually some kind of buildable rebel army. When I said that the units could only be built in Rome, I did that in the same column that restricts Highland Clansmen to Scotland. Apparently, restricting thier construction ALSO restricted their appearance in "rebel" crusader armies. That's why no OFS or Knights were appearing in my crusades, I think.

So I also wanted to run my fix by you all and see what you think. For kicks I have enabled the Papacy as a playable faction. I have given OFS built in Rome the standard +1 Valor bonus and enabled construction of all of the Swiss halberds and pikemen in Rome. That last bit is because, even to this day, Swiss Halberdiers actually make up forces chosen for the Vatican Guard. Anyway, my fix...

I will add a building from VI to the Crusader_Build file, thus enabling it's construction when playing in the Early, High, and Late periods. I will then make this building only buildable by the Papal faction, and maybe also only bulidable in Rome. I will then enable the construction of the crusader units with this building. Hopefully that will make Hospitallers buildable by the Pope in Rome AND still have them available to other factions (when I'm playing them). I have no idea what impact playing the Pope will have on other factions launching crusades. I'll have to play more and find out.

So, what do you think, should this fix work?

UPDATE:

Okay, so what I specifically did was to copy the Abbey building from VI to MTW building sheet, adjust some costs build times, and required buildings, and had it require the "Vatican" resource in order to build it. Then I went into the province data sheet and gave Rome the "Vatican" resource. Finally, I made all the crusading units require a Chapter House and the Abbey. That way, everyone still has access to the crusader units, but they can only be built with the Abbey, and the Abbey can only be built in Rome. Hopefully this fixes the problem. What may happen now though is that the Abbey restriction just replaced the Rome restriction and I still won't be able to get OFS or crusader knights in my crusades without an Abbey in the province too. I'll have to experiment and see.

[kawligia]

Quote[/b] (Servius1234 @ Jan. 18 2004,10:23)]On another note, I don't think Influence goes for much anymore. Like I said, I had 4 kings in a row with 9 Influence, and even with that I could not get a ceasefire with Spain, even though I was not at war with any of his allies. That shouldn't even matter when it comes to ceasefires anyway, only alliances. Nor could I get princesses to marry my heirs, save those from Germany, who I was at war with at the time...wth?
Are you really strong at this point? Eventually, when you become very strong, the entire world will hate you out of jealousy. They will not accept any alliance offers etc. and will break off alliances with you at first opportunity and then attack you.

And they will never accept your ceasefire offer either. Even when your have taken their entire empire and left them cowering in their one provence corner with a few peasants and depleated royal guards with thousands of strong bloodthirsty units staring them down, they "cannot see the benefit of a ceasefire" or whatever it says. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif