Gun Powder Uses

[caspian]

Im sure this has been answered before but now with many players who know the game inside out, I would like to know when do you use Handgunners or Arquebusiers, since I have never used them effectively in combat.

Any specific situation that they justify their building cost or existence?

[Brutal DLX]

Handgunners are a cheap fill in unit, put them on hold formation and fire a salvo into the approaching troops or later in the melee, never underestimate the morale penalty gunpowder units can cause.
Higher valour handgunners can also be used in melee, but in all cases, you should build those units in provinces that give a morale upgrade.
Arqebusiers are not that good in melee, although they can hold a while, but they are much better at firing. Ideally, you should let enemies get to about half of the arq's maximum range or closer before firing your volley(s). Even knights will suffer considerable losses that way.
So, arqebusiers are more of a fire support unit like other missile units, while handgunners are somewhat capable defenders who can fire one or two salvoes to scare their opponents and then go into melee. I use both, preferably
in defensive battles against tough units. You have 16 slots in your army, and can afford to take one or two of them along.
Like Naptha throwers, they are not essential to winning, but still a useful unit if employed right.

[Kaboom]

I found them to be useful to fire back Mongol Horse Archers. My archers run out of arrow,but the MHA don't charge They come close, but don't charge even if they run out of arrow too. My remain army covered in trees nearby while the gunner shoot the horses. Oops, Wes Mod increase their effective a bit

[insolent1]

I used them a lot in one of my Turkish campaigns as the only other alternative is crossbows so I decided I would give guns a try. I normally had 4/5 in a army & deployed them in front of my army at 5 rows deep so they reload faster. I have to say they are very effective against the AI, but they lack the range of arb's. The work great aginst armoured units & I often seen nearly whole royal knight units been obliterated by 3/4 units of arq's. I normally used them in conjunction with archers they can be devasting but I felt like crying when it rained though.

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (insolent1 @ Jan. 19 2004,13:04)]I normally used them in conjunction with archers they can be devasting but I felt like crying when it rained though.
Good enough for desert warfare though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_surrender.gif

[gaijinalways]

I have found them to be invaluable as units you can use to flank and fire into the side or back of the enemy units. Of course approaching units will take nice hits though these guys need to be guarded as they will rout if attacked. Also you can use handgunners as regular fighters (better for flanking but sometimes good in a pinch when you are out numbered and when the enemy routs you can fire into their backsides) and especially have them approach archers as they generally won't take many causalties because of their heavy armour so the enemy will just waste ammo.

[kawligia]

I did some custom battles with one unit of Arquebusiers defending and one unit of C or F MAA attacking. After two shots killing 3 or 4 men, the attackers fled without engaging the Arqs.

[Ironside]

Citera[/b] (The_Emperor @ Jan. 19 2004,09:22)]
Citera[/b] (insolent1 @ Jan. 19 2004,13:04)]I normally used them in conjunction with archers they can be devasting but I felt like crying when it rained though.
Good enough for desert warfare though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_surrender.gif
Sadly not, they get tired to fast. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
Found it out in my latest campaign the hard way. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

To my horror I've actually found a use for mamluk handgunners http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif They don't get tired in the desert like their armoured counterparts.

[Cazbol]

I've said it a lot and I'll keep on saying it for as long as needed: arquebusiers and handgunners aren't there to kill vast numbers of enemies, they're there to drive the enemy off the field. Kawligia's example is an excellent illustration of this. The morale penalty for being hit by a gun volley is very big indeed and will make most units turn tail at once. In the high period I hire every single unit of arquebusiers that shows up in my inns. They're the only unit I pursue so religiously. I like to deploy them 4 ranks deep in the center of the front line with units of arbalesters on each side. Units that don't flee at once when shot by the guns will at least be thinking Oh my God We're all going to DIE and then the arbalesters fire, thus proving their worst fears and then they run for sure.

[HopAlongBunny]

Quote[/b] (Ironside @ Feb. 09 2004,03:32)][quote=The_Emperor,Jan. 19 2004,09:22][quote=insolent1,Jan. 19 2004,13:04]I normally used them I've actually found a use for mamluk handgunners http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif They don't get tired in the desert like their armoured counterparts.
Thank you for that information http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif

I could never figure out why anyone would ever want to build Mamluke Handgunners; at least now they have a reason to exist.

Thanks again http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Kristaps]

Quote[/b] (Ironside @ Feb. 09 2004,03:32)]To my horror I've actually found a use for mamluk handgunners http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif They don't get tired in the desert like their armoured counterparts.
Well, as far as armor stats go, mamluk handgunners have the same armor rating as vanilla handgunners... If they tire less in desert there must be some 'other' stat that determines that besides armor.

This seems to apply for saracen infantry as well. Stat-wise they are exact twins (including armor) of chivalric sergeants, which, as we know, tire easily in desert; while, saracens are considered to be 'desert troops'...

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (insolent1 @ Jan. 19 2004,07:04)]I normally used them in conjunction with archers they can be devasting but I felt like crying when it rained though.
Yeah, I've had that too, but the last time I had to defend Constantinople from the reemerging Turks, they came with few stacks of army and at least 20-30 handgunners. I fell of the chair, laughing my butt off when I saw it was raining like in a rain season; by the time it actually stopped raining, the battlefield was covered with hundreds and hundreds of the handgunners corpses. A fine days work for my feudal and chivalric knights, God bless them

[Ironside]

Citera[/b] (Kristaps @ Feb. 09 2004,11:00)]
Citera[/b] (Ironside @ Feb. 09 2004,03:32)]To my horror I've actually found a use for mamluk handgunners http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/shock.gif They don't get tired in the desert like their armoured counterparts.
Well, as far as armor stats go, mamluk handgunners have the same armor rating as vanilla handgunners... If they tire less in desert there must be some 'other' stat that determines that besides armor.

This seems to apply for saracen infantry as well. Stat-wise they are exact twins (including armor) of chivalric sergeants, which, as we know, tire easily in desert; while, saracens are considered to be 'desert troops'...
Kristaps are you playing Medmod or another mod?
I haven't modded anything on my handguns, they got an armour of 4, and my mamluk handguns got an armour of 1.

[Seven.the.Hun]

hmm, yes i aggree, that moral effect really freaks out those who are being shot at, i know well because i rarely if ever use firearms troops, except for the siege equipment...i am normally on the attack, and i try to attack in the worst weather possible with more mobile troops, so gunpowder troops are easily crushed, hopefully...i find them all better defenders than attackers, defenders just of course have no say in the weather

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif

[Gregoshi]

Greetings Seven.the.Hun. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif Thanks for joining us

Eh, if you crush gunpowder units, does that make them Hun-edgunners? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-shocked.gif

Gregoshi dives for cover... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_hide.gif

[Nelson]

I like to use handgunners to attack castles. Their armor makes them tough targets, they can fire into the breach hurting and demoralizing even heavily armored targets and then melee fairly well afterwards.

[Seven.the.Hun]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

thanx, nice to be here

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif

hmm, handgunners in a siege, i dont really think i have done that one, i'll have to try them out on one.

[Atilla1]

In a seige, you wouldnt need to worry about the negitive moral penalty since the defender fights to the death, and wont care about gun powder weapons.

Secondly. For those of you experiementing with more than 3 ranks for arqs or handgunners. 3 ranks fires the same speed as 4 ranks, which fires the same speed as 5 ranks, which fires the same speed as 6 ranks. Since the gunpowder guys are using a 3 man rotation for loading, anyone behind them will just standthere and fill in should anyone in the first three rows die. Dony believe me? Do a custom game--buy 2 arqs and face off vs. a single unit of pavase crossbowmen. Put one arq unit 6 deep, and leave the other 3 deep. You will see both units fire the exact same speed...notice the last 3 rows of the 6 deep unit.

Thirdly. Since gunpowder tears apart armour better than any shooty non-artillery thing, its best to target stuff that archers cant hurt, like Knights or Halberdiers---its a waste of, well...gunpowder...to shoot at lightly armoured stuff if you have a choice.

[Brutal DLX]

While they only use three rows, ranks do make a difference though, simply because the fewer ranks you have, the more men are in each of them, thus, the more devastating the salvo they fire.

[Atilla1]

true--a single rank unit would get you 60 shots, but it will take you a year to reload. I tried it out with one rank, but gave up because its just too unweidly and way too slow.

As someone put it so well here on this thread.

Guns in this era arent for killing---they are lowering moral

Think of it like this--A mosque/cathedral gives you +3 moral which is awsome Being shot at with gunpowder takes away 6 moral