Late game trade/economy ideas?

[afroide]

I recently purchased the game, and though my first campaign is a writeoff, an interesting problem arose.

By using a slow expansion strategy combined with trade, I eventually found that myself and my major trading partner (egypt) were the only two factions with any coastal presence. The situation was complicated by the fact that they controlled many more provinces (including all of the ones that could turn a good profit without trade). As soon as war breaks out, I go from making 15k florins/turn, down to losing several thousand.

As far as I have been able to ascertain, there is only one viable way to counter this (while still keeping a trade based economy). If you crush turkey early on then you effectively drive a wedge between europe and the holy lands (the same goes for taking morocco). By splitting up the world into separate chunks like that, you make it much more difficult for any one faction to dominate the map (and thus ensure a reasonable chance of maintaining economic domination).

The other possibility I thought of would be to harde vast amounts of gold until as late as possible while improfing your economic infrastructure with mines and farming.

Any other ideas?

Is there another way?

[Doug-Thompson]

Always remember that the Egyptians will lose trade with you, too. Their economy is trade-dependent, too.

I go for a low tax/high loyalty approach, but I'm considered strange. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

[Gandalftheredskin]

The other possibility I thought of would be to harde vast amounts of gold until as late as possible while improfing your economic infrastructure with mines and farming.

[/QUOTE]


That's the idea I prefer myself. Though it's tempting to ignore farms/mines early in the game, usually so that the money spent on them can be used for bribery, mercenaries, or troop buiding, the rapid expansion that accompanies such a strategy can backfire.

I try to build all of my farms up to at least 40% in my starting provinces before building anything else. After then building towers, Town Watch, and any other available happiness/morale boosting structures, I go back to farming until it's maxed. If there are mines available, I'll generally build the first level before the happiness buildings. Freshly conquered provinces receive nearly the same treatment, excepting that I build the Watch Tower/Border Fort, then Town Watch, before building all 4 levels of farm. The only other exception I can think of is a newly conquered island province, where a Port is usually at the top of the priority list.

Also, be sure to assign governorship of your most productive provinces to worthy generals, I won't give a title to anyone with less than 4 acumen, and scan my generals regularly for those with higher ratings than my existing governors. Try experimenting, and you'll quickly see the differences in income.

With this build strategy, I rarely ever have money problems, at any point in the game. In my recent campaign as the Hungarians, and my current one as Spain, I have yet to run short of funds, and this is with full 960 man garrisons in each province.

Which brings up another eater of funds, troop upkeep. Try to use cheap but effective units as garrisons, such as Clansmen, Gallowglasses and Woodsmen. At only 22 florins per year, they're a great bargain, and better troops than peasantry or early militia. The savings can go a long way towards financing your ultimate goals.

[afroide]

I just started a campaign today as the Spanish and there is no problem. I think I'm somewhere in the neighbourhood of 1100 AD and raking in 3700 florins a turn after expenses (without oceanic trade). I snagged all the rebel provinces and then took out the almohad provinces up to and including morocco, and have only implemented mild infrastructure improvements.

SOOOO... from my point of view it simply seems that I just wasn't playing England right, because I've got a pretty sick economy this time around (considering how early it is and the complete lack of any naval units so far).

[kiwitt]

After learning about acumen and farming development as opposed to trade. My income management has been a lot easier. Try to minimise your infrastructure development to your core provinces and then plunder your other new provinces of military improvements when resources get short.

[Thon]

Quote[/b] ]The other possibility I thought of would be to harde vast amounts of gold until as late as possible while improfing your economic infrastructure with mines and farming.

that's the situation in my current game as the danes. i've been raking in insane $ for years, although now almost everyone with a coast province is at war with me. i'm making -3k a turn, and will run out of florins sometime in the 24th century http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif

[ichi]

At almost every chance you get, build a moneymaker. Maybe you can forego 80% farmlands in Switzerland, and a Mater Merchant in Pereslavyl, but if you build lots of these early it will pay off later. Don't try to build everything everywhere. Focus building production.

Minimize the use of mercenaries. Use em then release em, except for the really nice ones that you cannot make.

Use fewer, better troops on your front lines, cheap troops as garrison in your 'protected regions'.

Manage your governors for high acumen, and disband or kill or take the titles aways from guvs with economic vices (Outlaw, Administratively Greedy, etc). Give your high florin provinces the best guvs, then give those guys the acumen enhancing titles.

Keep your taxes at normal or high; it seems like very high taxes cause more guv vices. Very high requires additional garrison troops to keep the peace. Use spies to keep happiness up.

Own the Sea, and don't fight with anyone unless it is necessary. Get your trade going early so you can use it for a longer time, 'cause eventually other factions won't like you and go to war with you, cutting off this revenue stream. Save alittle of this revenue.

Keep 'em as pets. Force other factons onto islands and leave them with one province and a large army. Separate from them by removing your ships from the sea surrounding the island, then move back in after the war is over. Protect these guys and stay plugged into them with ships - keep the other factions from access to them. You can easily get the Byz isolated on Crete, the Sicilians on Malta, and if you are good the French or the English in Ireland. You can treat Finland and Norway the same way. Don't leave islands to the rebels.

I don't save up lots of cash - I use it to make more; roll those florins over into more farms and merchants.

ichi

[TheSilverKnight]

Ideas: Boats, Ports, Trading Posts..uhh..more boats

If you want to become a trading empire, build lots of boats, ports, and trading posts, also make sure you have something to supply so your trading partner will give you stuff too. (trade goods in provinces) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Obex]

Quote[/b] (TheSilverKnight @ Jan. 19 2004,20:45)]Ideas: Boats, Ports, Trading Posts..uhh..more boats

If you want to become a trading empire, build lots of boats, ports, and trading posts, also make sure you have something to supply so your trading partner will give you stuff too. (trade goods in provinces) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Once you get your trade established, make sure to upgrade your farms in all your provinces. Eventually your trade income will decline (as you make enemies across the board), but by then your farming should hold you over.

[Count Fudgula]

Started a campaign recently (Aragonese/High/Hard)where
I decided to take it a little slower than usual. Through
a couple of astute acquisitions I was able to turn a
profit of nearly 15k a turn with an empire of about a
dozen provinces. The key is really to get some of the
big earning three trade item provinces and exploit them
to the fullest. I was able to get Lithuania through a
Crusade against the Mongols. The money I made from there
went into buying off a rebel army in Sweden and a little
bit of light invading got me Sicily. A bit of teching up
of the merchants later and these provinces were raking
in more than 3k Florins each per turn. Being relatively
small means no one is trying to have a go at your
navy, and it's possible, in theory, to make even more
money from these key type provinces (Tripoli, Flanders,
and Constantinople being some of the others).

All the profit has gone into buying up more long term
investments like agriculture and mines, so I should be
okay when the big conflicts start to arrive. The
healthy bank balance should help too, of course.

[gaijinalways]

Yes, mines and farming are important in addition to trade. I am currently working on an Italian campaign where I went without war over 200 years and built up a kitty of 100K. I now have been on a rampage with mercs plundering out from my original 5 or so provinces and have expanded southwest to Leon and Northwest to Flanders. I have been excommunicated but no one seems strong enough to counter- attack effectively though I lost 2 provinces to rebels (I was lazy and didn't want to siege two castles).

Alternate sources of income are essential as well as a plundering strategy where you take an extra army (mercs or not) with raids, razing what you can to make cash for yourself and at the same time hurting the AI factions you attacked as they lose productive provinces. Whether you decide to hang on to the captured provinces or not may depend on their locations and and possible income you can derive from them.

[Brutal DLX]

I would put it the other way around: trade is important in addition to mines and farming. Farming and mining will give you direct income, that only you can control as logn as you hold your provinces, for trading you are dependent on other factions, even if you control the seas, if everybody is at war with you, you won't make much income off it.
With that being said, some factions are more suited to trade than other, Spain and Egypt for example don't really need to rely on trade as their regions are incredibly rich, Sicily and the Danes on the other hand make their living off trade. In any case, as long as you don't expand and upgrade your realm so that it can support a sensible amount of troops without trade income, you will always run in problems (GA mode of course, total domination requires you to conquer anyway).
Either way, when you approach the Late era, you should not need trade anymore at all, because you can either hold out and win by your GA score or you should be close to having conquered two thirds of the map (which will give you sufficient income to conquer the rest), unless you want to challenge yourself by not continuously exapnding until late. In that case, it's sensible to save up your money as suggested and then go on an all out war.

[Rhyno]

I am playing Glorious Achievement late Spanish Campaign and I am having a serious problem with the economy. Although I already won a conquest campaign I still a little blind about the economy model and getting more surprises from this game. I am holding 9 provinces, all of them have 80% harvesting, I am producing just over 5,000 florins a year but because of so many costs I am only earning a little over 500. I don't really know if any other building can spark income significantly, so I tried to build them (merchant etc) investing important amounts of florins just to come out earning at most 65 florins per year. I destroyed my ports since they were not producing anything, the ships are too expensive for me at this time and are too slow to build. Is there something else I can do to spark income? Are the farms where the most income can be produced? Are any other buildings worth creating?

Of course I can dismantle some armies but I fear it would only sign my death sentence since the diplomacy model is not that well defined and I am second-guessing my self too much on what to do. In the previous campaign, I was attacked by enemies, allies or neutrals without much difference. Alliances did not guarantee my safety with a particular faction and no ally came to help when I was attacked by enemies or neutral factions. My conclusion is that you are mostly on your own.

Here is my diplomatic situation.

I am allied with the Egyptians after finishing off out the Almohads, the Egyptians are a Muslim faction at my eastern order, are the richest and have the strongest military so I am trying to keep that alliance at all cost. The English at my north are neutral but are a catholic faction. I am only trying to contain the English since an alliance with them would cancel my alliance with the Egyptians. I already tried to attack the English as an experiment and they surprisingly responded attacking my provinces at the south and some of the middle provinces with too many reinforcements, honestly I didn't know where did they came from (more like the phantom army in Return of the King). I don’t really know what ships to build to carry armies nor have a clue of what to do o create a strong naval force or to promote and protect sea trade. So I loaded the previous saved file again and took it from there to see if the situation can be solved.

Any hint would be appreciated.

[Kulgan]

Trade is where the big money is, you want a trade post in all your provinces who have tradable goods and ships all over the map as soon as possible.
A level 3 trade post can easily give 2000-3000 florins in certan provinces. Level 4 gives more, logically http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
But you need a port in order to get this big cash, without a port and ships everywhere your trade buildings will only give you ridiculously small amounts of money, like 26 florins.
Get your ships into the sea zones next to other rich trade provinces at whom you are not at war with.
Rich provinces are: Sweden, Flanders, Venetia, Antioch, Trippoli, Egypt, Byzantium. + one or 2 in northern germany + all the others I forget.
Invest the huge amounts of money you are making at times by your trade into farms and mines.
Though it may seem ridiculous to invest in a farm that will only bring profit in 70 years, it's a steady income.
Trade will go away once you're at war. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

Hope this helps

[Throb]

Sorry if this sounds dumb, but I had a fleet of ships in a chain with an allied nation, both with tradable goods yet my port showed that it was making 0 florins, why is this ?

[fruitfly]

Quote[/b] (Throb @ Feb. 09 2004,21:40)]Sorry if this sounds dumb, but I had a fleet of ships in a chain with an allied nation, both with tradable goods yet my port showed that it was making 0 florins, why is this ?
Both provinces need ports for you to be able to trade. Trade income also shows up on the parchment screen for the merchant building rather than the port.

One last thing: try pressing the hotkey to show up trade routes. I think it's v but can't remember for definite off the top of my head.

If there are any red sea squares between the two provinces you want to trade, then they're being blockaded by enemy ships which you'll need to sink before trade can resume.

[Brutal DLX]

Rhyno, since you started in Late, it's normal that you still have money problems, but if you own all of the Iberian peninsula and upgraded all provinces to 80%, you should be able to afford a sizable army and still make 1-2k surplus each year. Try to go more for troop quality rather than quantity. Build heavy knights, spearmen, crossbows/arbalesters and Chivalric men-at-arms...
Since you don't seem to be at war with anyone at the moment, it is a good idea to get trade going, of course shipbuilding is slow and expensive, but it will pay off once you get a couple of ships out there. You should have more than one province with a shipbuilder to speed up the process. As for exact details, there are numerous threads around here that deal with trading, trading links etc, just do a topic search or look into the table of contents.

[Throb]

Thank you very much Fruitfly.