View Full Version : units
what is your favorite unit and why?
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know yourself and you will never loss
smillie.james@btopenworld.com
Sjakihata
02-23-2002, 05:55
Look at the poll archieves!
LOL yeah!
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Grey Wolves
The poll archives say "which"
But they don't say why! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
[poll archives = press "results" on the poll and then go to archives]
My fav unit is Heavy Cavalry.
The are cavs, thus have speed.
They kill everything except yari samurai.
They have good morale and excellent fighting values.
I can't see a better overall unit anyway.
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Vlad The Impaler
02-23-2002, 17:23
HCav are great indeed
please help me with my registration; yesterday i was clickin for hours to post smthin and it was a single answer :ur username isnt registred or somthing like that ;i manage to post one time and then nothing; i tried for hours ; one of the admins could help me ?
Vlad The Impaler
02-23-2002, 17:25
oh i did it http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
i hope thats not gonna happend again ...is it ?
Being primarily a low k guy I was always partial to Honour=0 Nodachi because they are the backbone of any low k army.
heh - HCav, but I have the ignominious distinction of that being my favourite unit in original Shogun when it was generally rated very poorly - now it kicks ass big style I am more partial to a bit of Cavalry Archers - but what am I saying???
Korean Spearmen,surprisingly good melee units, crippling ranged attack, the REAL battle turner of STW
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"Situation excellente. J'attaque!"
theforce
02-23-2002, 18:48
Must be nd. Fast and deadly http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.nipogames.com/default.html
yeah force no dachi are the ass kickers of the game millions will probobly disagree!
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know yourself and you will never be defeated
smillie.james@btopenworld.com
Toda Nebuchadnezzar
02-24-2002, 02:34
LOL if only millions had the game then we would see 79 people online all the time. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
But any unit is good, and can be the backbone of the army. Depends on honour of unit weapons/armour upgrades.
ND - Fast good attackers, poor defensively.
HC - Fast, can beat any unit (beat YS if attacking rear)
WM - good all-rounders (like Andrew Flintoff for England at cricket http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif)
I also like the Heavy Cav just the idea of powerful men riding war horses around the batle field being able to pick a pight with anyone and win (usually) is very inspiring. But people have their own choices because they play in a certain way.
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Koga No Goshi
02-24-2002, 02:47
I'm in shock!
What happened to the days when this thread would have 80 posts, and 78 of them would say "Warrior monks! They Ro0lz!" hehehe
Anyone feel the monks have taken a step down from the x-pack or the new patch? Curious as to why they're not the hands-down #1 anymore.
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Koga no Goshi
"Hokusai"
Now as a spirit
I shall roam
the summer fields.
Well, I like those sword wielding HC or Monks as well, but you know those bloody Ashi-X bowmen are an unbelievable investment for the koku. I've had (single) units of these come away with upwards of 250 kills on the defense! If those badboys have legendary everything, thier positively awesome!
From the monk rush of STW I seen many Cav rushes in MI.
Monks still hold that "heavy-duty warriors" status but their all round domination is no more.
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But then again, x-bow men reload very slowly, and they don't carry as much ammo as other units.
And their range is shorter.
But that's what I like about this unit. Unlike the all-powerful guns that completely destroy the balance, x-bow men are deadly if used correctly, but can be easily defeated if not.
Koga No Goshi,
The cost of WM went from 500 to 550, and HC was improved so that it beats the WM; so now the WM has a predator. Also, the naginata was improved, and can stand up to the WM for a long time while ranged units shoot the WM. Taken together these changes stop the monk rush.
MizuYuuki ~~~
Hmmm still to new to remember all the names
but i recently (last night) got a new cav unit that was not quite heavy, well all I can say is "BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA the world is mine now!" I am sure I will discover thier fatal flaw eventualy but for now they get my vote.
Sword_Monkey
02-27-2002, 03:50
Quote Originally posted by Efmu:
Hmmm still to new to remember all the names
but i recently (last night) got a new cav unit that was not quite heavy, well all I can say is "BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA the world is mine now!" I am sure I will discover thier fatal flaw eventualy but for now they get my vote.[/QUOTE]
Possibly Naginata Cavalry. One of my favourites, that's for sure. My cav handling leaves bit to be desired and Yari Cav or Cav Archers just get munched by the enemies YS or YA at some point no matter what I try. I can't even get HC to work all that well for the money I spend on them http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif But the toughness of the Naginata Cavs makes them invaluable for cracking archer lines and living to tell the tale once their footmen begin to swarm in.
[This message has been edited by Sword_Monkey (edited 02-26-2002).]
I have stopped using monks as a prime unit now i use No dachi supered up to have attack 10 lol.
Naginata Cavalry always seem to do the job with minimal casualties
1) Fast
2) Work well even in loose form (so you can avoid decimation by archer-fire)
3) Superior over absolutely anything in Japanese army (except possibly musket-fire)
4) Not TOO expensive.
5) Superb for mopping up the routing hoards
NC always seem to get the most kills for a single unit!
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Grey Wolves
FastCub
Ahem, well yes I suppose...
Yes NC is great but with the new patch HC is better! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif HC can beat NC and only HC can beat monks comfortably. But, NC has advantages:
1) cheaper
2) faster
3) gets a higher charge bonus.
All in all, NC is the best for attacking but HC is the best for defending.
Soviet military doctrine calls for greater numbers at the expense of quality. Thus, I'd have to say that if you go along with this doctrine, Ashigaru and Arquebusiers will make up the entirety of your army. Samurai are elitist and do not represent 'the people'... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
I thought I'd toss in this little "Holy Mother of God are those bastards nasty heavy cavalry!" I was attacking Hojo held Totomi last night as the Ronin in JDDse on expert. My guys were high honor legendary everything and had just succeded in routing Hojo's boys when one unit of his reinforcements that wasn't running away appears next to mine.
Whoooah bud didn't see you there, guess I'll kill you now.
To make a long story short, I had 2 NC hit him on each flank, a WM head on and a YC charge him from the rear. All were nearly full strength,quite fresh and at least honor 3 and his one HC decimated to the man both NC and the monk and left only 4YCguys left. His HC were legendary everything honor 2, also at full strength. 2 of the HC ran away. Had I not sent in another Monk unit I would have lost the skirmish.
In a thousand games, I've never seen such a thing.
DeathOnaPaleHorse
03-01-2002, 03:16
Hmmmmmmm..... definately heavy cavalry. There's nothing more fun than watching the enemy break his neck to go through your lines, only to be faced with the general and his heavy cav, as fresh as if they had just taken a nap. Instant rout. Even useful in multiplayer, I dare say.
KensaiAkechi
03-03-2002, 12:53
Hehehehhe Heavy Cavalry are becoming the new "warrior monks" if you know what i mean...
Well anyways me favorite unit is Mongol Heavy Cavalry
(just today i beat 1057 YS,SA,YA,and x-bow ashigaru with just 386 MHC)
The best units are the units consistings a balance army - each will kick ass.
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tootee the goldfish
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Sword_Monkey
03-03-2002, 23:11
Quote Originally posted by tootee:
The best units are the units consistings a balance army - each will kick ass.
[/QUOTE]
That's the truth and one of the AI's biggest weaknesses in SP. I can't count the times I see a huge army on my border only to check it out and realise it's 540 Ashi, 180 Yari Sams, and 4 units of archers. What, pray tell, is that army going to do besides die when you've got an army made up of naginata, yari sams, archers, no-dachi/monks, and naginata cav for mop up?
I am so hoping they've fixed AI army composition in MTW as that's about the biggest problem with STW ai.
DeathOnaPaleHorse
03-04-2002, 04:21
I can remember programming a game in Q-basic... it was a bee-ach just making the bullets fly and collide when they wwere supposed to. I have exteme respect for the programmers, even if the AI isn't exactly Deep Blue.
What game do you guys think has the best AI (besides Half-LIfe)? I don't know if any of you played Sid Meier's Gettysburg! or Antietam, but the AI on that was pretty good at flanking you. I also recall the AI in Great Battles of Alexander was not bad either. Hmm... Combat Mission's AI was somewhat predictable, but the game kicked ass.
Opinions?
Sword_Monkey
03-04-2002, 06:11
Gettysburg was very good. Another fine example of how you can have a real time game without it being a click fest and have real tactics. One of the things I found appealing about Shogun was some of the initial favourable comparisons to Gettysburg.
Unreal Tournament still has the best AI for an FPS that I've seen. The Homeworld games had some good if not outstanding AI (and considering the fully 3D playing field, that's very impressive).
In general, RTS games tend to have a hard time with good AI. I think it's sad commentary that with the 3rd party tweaks (e.g. Queller) Total Annihilation has better AI than most modern RTS games and it was coded over 5 years ago.
Overall, Shogun has a good AI but some of it's elements should have been done differently. Balanced army composition is one of them because it should have been relatively simple to code in a list of army makeups that are viable and have the AI construct those armies. With the very good rock paper scissor units strengths a player shouldn't find themselves 25 years into the campaign facing off against an army of 12 archer units and some Ashi. I get the feeling that the AI army composition was done with some sort of weighting algorithm that doesn't work as well as quasi-scripting would in this game.
DeathOnaPaleHorse
03-04-2002, 11:25
Sword_Monkey, I agree completely with you about the AI on Shogun... As a matter of fact, just yesterday, I was thinking of the personality options on Gettysburg, like General Lee prefered flexible attacks (direct and indirect) and cautious advancing. If i recall, Grant prefered direct and aggresive advances, and Meade was indirect and passive. I think if each enemy general, whether in a campaign or in a custom battle, was given random army layouts and tactical personalities, the game would be improved immensely.
As for UT having the best FPS AI, I disagree... I can toast those bots day in and day out... And they can't cooperate. Half-Life has the best FPS AI. The way they work together can be spooky.
YagyuKamiizumi
03-04-2002, 13:12
My favorite unit is whatever I am experimenting with and getting positive results without unbalancing my army or creating/compounding a weakness.
I find that two units of h1 Cavalry Archers skillfully employed can be the great softener
of some of the hardiest armies one can devise.
They are fast enough to avoid getting zeroed in on with muskets or archers or chased down by other cav (Yari Cav being the exception)and accurate enough to whittle away your opponents attack/counterattack power. That is until they run out of arrows then they are reduced to a good chaser of routing troops when you can't spare your heavier cav units to the chase or just as targets to absorb fire from a distracted players archers or guns.
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