Question on marching

[Loki]

Greetings all,

I'm an old time wargamer.... I started as a kid playing with tin minitures. Napoleonics, Civil war, and Middle earth. I then graduated to board games etc.

When playing these types of games, the troops under your control (assuming they were disciplined and not disorganized) could easily execute simple basic infantry maneuvers, like an about face, or a left face, or a wheel, etc. etc.

Am I missing something basic, (I am fairly new to the game) or is it really that hard to get your unit to do an about face? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

Scenario: My unit of spear troopers are on top of hill in the middle of the battle field. They are facing North. Suddenly from the woods to the south, some enemy cavalry enter the field. In my other gaming experience this unit of spear (especially a higher class unit like CS) would execute a VERY simple and routine about face in order to face the cav.

In MTW I have to do a swipe maneuver and the resulting chaos is pathetic. My troopers are LUCKY if they can get back into position before they get hit. Often times they wont have had a chance to reform.

I'm not being picky, I love this game. Just wondering if I have overlooked something obvious.

[Ludens]

With alt-right click, you can turn a formation (which means that the standardbearer will stay in his place, and the other units will form up behind him). But I guess this is not what you mean.
I believe the problem is caused by the way the Total War engine handles units: the unit leader (the one with the standard) always has to stand front center. He represents the location of the unit and the formation is build around him. The engine seems unable to create a formation with the unit leader at the back.
Luckily in RTW this problem seems removed. From what I've seen in Time Commanders, the units can easily perform an about-turn, and the unit leaders walk next to their unit in stead of in the centre. If the unit takes up another formation, it is the unitleader who does most of the running.

[makkyo]

simply clicking directly behind your unit will make the entire unit trn and face your direction too, though the problem of breaking formation still exists... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

[Demequis]

Quote[/b] (Ludens @ Jan. 21 2004,12:02)]With alt-right click, you can turn a formation (which means that the standardbearer will stay in his place, and the other units will form up behind him). But I guess this is not what you mean.
I believe the problem is caused by the way the Total War engine handles units: the unit leader (the one with the standard) always has to stand front center. He represents the location of the unit and the formation is build around him. The engine seems unable to create a formation with the unit leader at the back.
Luckily in RTW this problem seems removed. From what I've seen in Time Commanders, the units can easily perform an about-turn, and the unit leaders walk next to their unit in stead of in the centre. If the unit takes up another formation, it is the unitleader who does most of the running.
No I think that is exactly what he means. Simply alt right click on the enemy cav and your spears will wheel to face them. :)

[Lord Rom]

Units that are grouped can also do a wheel with the alt-hold down right click and spin it till your units face the direction ya want. You can group your whole force if ya need to get em all facing a threat from a different direction.
Rom

[Lo Rez]

alt click and alt+drag (to resize the formation) are my best friends on the battlefield :)

also on attack i like to group the main part of my force (ctrl+g)after organising a formation

this, as Lord Rom touched on, lets them all b manoeuvred in any direction - but with grouping they keep their relation to each other, rather than rotating in place

very very useful, but b warned flaking units will often run to get into position - not so good if they are already tired

may your battles b more organised and less teeth pullingly frustrating form now on http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Loki]

HOLY CRIPES THANKS LO REZ

How many other secret keystrokes are there? That works AWSOME-LY http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

Here I was trying to use Swipe in reverse order to get a unit turned.

Anyone else got some undocumented goodies to share with a new member?

Thanks again Lo Rez. I owe you one. Cheers mate http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Kongamato]

If you want to move a group of units in the same way, select the group and perform the same alt-right click combo with the group. It must be on a group, or else the units will all face the point you select on their own.

A very helpful but little-known feature is the yellow box. Hold down Ctrl, hold down right-click, and drag the mouse. This draws a box that selects all units inside of it. This is very helpful after you double-team something. You can select the clump of units and quickly drag them into a line or organize them some other way, helping you get them back into the battle.

[Loki]

Way too Cool Many thanks Kongamato. (Loki Bows Deeply)

Drinks on me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

Keep them coming guys

[Lo Rez]

=) glad u like them loki, i used to 'redraw' the unit formation till i figured the alt click one out

realised i've made a mistake in my last post, it's just a g not ctrl+g to group (must have units selected ofcourse)
g again will ungroup a selected group

hmm other useful stuff.. u can send units around about where u want by clicking on the minimap (saves moving or turning to see where u want them to go)

i guess u know the mouse scroll button elevates your view point and rightclicking points your view in that direction - using arrow keys & the cursor together is faster to move around than one or the other (i think, might b wrong on that one)

also from these forums recently found the pause key - p.. but don't use it as i've got used to and like the frantic semi ordered chaos thats battle

seems more realistic that if your concentrating on one area of the battlefield u can be suprised in another - flanked by cavalry http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif

[Imperial Buffoon]

Another undocumented goodie: pressing the SHIFT key when giving a movement (or attack) order makes the cursor ignore any friendly units. Useful when there is already a unit where you want to go (for example having new archers replace depleted ones) or to attack an enemy in the middle of a melee.
Of course, Shift- is also used to give waypoints, so be careful to click only once

IB

[Loki]

Thanks so much guys Keep them coming, surely there must be more?

[Puzz3D]

Don't forget makkyo's point of left clicking directly behind a unit to make it about face, because that's the fastest way to do it since the unit does not wheel. I don't recall any way to make a group about face in place except to use alt left click behind the group and stop them before they get to the destination point. Also, the move and rotate commands for a group are applied to the geometric center of the group. It's not possible to change this point and, for instance, have a group wheel about the corner of the formation.

You can give a group rotate command and follow it with a group move command before the group stops rotating. The group will complete the rotation as it marches to the new destination or it will finish rotation once it gets there. You cannot do the reverse with a move and then a rotate before the move is entirely completed. However, you can give a 2nd group move command once at least one unit in the group has reached its destination and stopped, and the original group formation will be retained at the final destination.

[Loki]

Puzz3D

Yet more good info thanks dude I was a little confused however by your refrence to the wheel command though.... Is this a keystroke or menu pick, or is this just having multiple units selected and then swiping an area / orientation?

Sorry if my igorance is showing, but I'm still trying to learn

Thanks in advance
Loki

[Mysterium]

While we're on the battlefield controls topic . . .

Is there any way to adjust the tilt of the camera? As in: I'm uphill of a unit, and want to move it just downhill, but the unit itself is mostly in the way of my view. I've got panning left-right down, and I've got moving up-down mastered, but is there anyway to just tilt down a bit?

Thanx in advance.

[Ludens]

Welcome to the Org, Mysterium http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Keyboard camera control is done with the numpad. Tilting can be done with the + and - keys on the numpad. Changing camera elevation can be done with the numpad / and * keys. Try it out for yourself.
I couldn't find a keyboard layout-out for MTW in the download section, but perhaps I just overlooked it. If there really isn't one you might try the Beginner's Guide (one of the pinned topics in the Entrance hall) or download the Shogun keyboard layout. I don't think that the functions of keys have changed much between Shogun and Medieval.

[Mysterium]

Bingo. Thanks Ludens.

This thread has been amazingly helpful. I was kinda surprised that the manual didn't have more into along these lines. I would expect since the designers obviously put so much thought into the game - and since the players of this sort usually loved the number-crunching board games of old - there'd be a doorstop of a manual. Maybe my third or fourth time through will show me more of what I'm looking for . . .

[Loki]

As the originator of this thread and an 'official newbie I'd like to make a contribution to the group.

First let me say that I found this out thru total serendipity and NOT thru rigorous research http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

On the subject of camera aiming... I found that in those pesky, uphill/downhill situations, it was faster for me to right-click in an empty space (i.e. no units under the mouse, just grass). This has the effect of tilting the camera up or down quickly and easily.

Hope this helps
Loki

[Mysterium]

Quote[/b] (Loki @ Jan. 28 2004,14:57)]On the subject of camera aiming... I found that in those pesky, uphill/downhill situations, it was faster for me to right-click in an empty space (i.e. no units under the mouse, just grass). This has the effect of tilting the camera up or down quickly and easily.
Heh, I'm smart . . .

Yeah, sometimes you miss the easy ones because you're thinking too hard. I suppose the rightclick would solve most of my camera-aiming problems, wouldn't it. Thanks, Loki. And cool name, BTW.

[Loki]

No problem at all Mysterium I started this thread because I figured there where prolly quite a few things like that, that I was missing. Everyone here has been very helpful so it's cool to be able to give back

Thanks for noticing my handle Not alot of people know who/what he was. Being of Scandinavian descent I've know about the Pantheon of Norse Gods since I was a kid. Thor was always my favorite comic growing up, (although I really hated the way they depicted Loki in that strip)

[Loki]

Hey All

Just found another lil nugget that I thought I'd share with the group. Most likely common knowledge to most of you but.....

OK so here's the deal. You know how when setting up troop on the field you sometimes like to have units (like spears) very close to each other (right flank of one unit up tight with left flank of the next etc). Makes sense yes? Well the problem with that for me was that whenever I tried to do that, my cursor would change from the yellow click where you want to start my position thingy to the OK now I'm selecting a different unit thingy. (uh sorry for the awful descriptions) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

OK what I learned thru fumbling about was that when placing a unit if I were to hold down the ALT key whilst left clicking to place the units anchor point, then the cursor stays yellow regardless of how close I get to the adjacent unit. I can even overlap although I don't suggest this.

This has been a great help to me in setting up those killer defenses when hopelessly outnumbered by those Mongol Dogs

Have I ever mentioned that Huscarls go thru Mongol heavy Cav in the woods like a red hot knife thru butter? It's a beautiful thing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Ludens]

Perhaps another thing that might interest you, Loki: setting up in forest can be problematic but is sometimes necessary, for example when planning an ambush or fighting a cavalry heavy opponent without having spear / pike or cavalry support to match his. Holding down ALT while placing your troops between the trees also helps.

[Mysterium]

Oh guru's of the game, kings of the keystroke (insert bowing smiley here)

How 'bout this one? I was fighting a battle (which was going just swimmingly with all my new commands) and I sent some light cavalry around to take out the ranks of archers, after the Saxons threw in all of their infantry reserves to the main fray. I wanted to set two waypoints to have my cavalry skirt the edge of the battle, then attack, so I could forget about them. Trouble is, I wasn't sure if you can give two waypoints then an attack command, or if the unit ignores everything else once they hear Charge and go straight in?

So, can I give waypoints, then attack commands? Or do I have to babysit my outriders?

[Puzz3D]

Loki,

By wheel I meant rotate. The rotation is always about the center of the unit or center of the group. Select a group of units, hold ALT, hold the right mouse button and then move the cursor around on the map. The group will phantom rotate to face the cursor and then will actually perform the rotation when you release the right mouse button.

When drawing out a group in a line, hit the right mouse button before you release the left mouse button. It's a toggle for unit depth and affects the side to side spacing as well.

Put -ian in your shortcut as an argument on the command line. It gives you a completely free camera, and you can go as high as you want with the camera as well.

[Loki]

Good question Mysterium.... Anyone got the answer? I see a custom battle in my near future to find out this and other cool thingy's

[*Ringo*]

You can queue up commands using way points, including attacks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif You can even specify whether you want the unit to run in between way points by double clicking (or ctrl-R) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif Then walk to the next way point by single clicking http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif You can EVEN change the formation by redrawing the unit using way points (Now how good is that??? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif)

*Ringo*

[Mysterium]

Wow. Now that's stunning. I can already tell that I'm gonna spend tonight making little chunks of peasants dance around a flat field, and never actually get around to fighting anybody. Damn this game that even distracts me from itself http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[k1injuries]

For some reason, when I do the alt-left click on a point in front of the enemy line, the waypoint that is shown is way past the enemy. If I try it again, the yellow flag thing is even farther. What's the deal?

[Loki]

Woo Hoo

My first post that went to 2 whole pages (blush)

Aww Shucks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (k1injuries @ Jan. 30 2004,02:08)]For some reason, when I do the alt-left click on a point in front of the enemy line, the waypoint that is shown is way past the enemy. If I try it again, the yellow flag thing is even farther. What's the deal?
I have seen this too, when I had a moving unit selected. You should not use alt when commanding moving units because it will NOT order them to the location of the cursor. What it does order them to do is a mystery to me.