@#$% POPE !!!!!!!!

[Etym]

Is it my imagination, or are the @#$%^ Spanish immune from excommunication? Playing GA Early as the Italians, I've been very cautious about excom . . . never attacked a Catholic who wasn't excommunicated. Then the Spanish (my #$%^&* ally)attacked me in Aquitaine. I defeated them, and didn't counter attack. So they attacked 2 of my provinces and my ships. I defended again, put more ships in the sea zones, and did nothing. They attacked 3 provinces. I'm wondering, Where's the @#$% Pope when you want him? So I invaded Aragon, hoping to build up some valor and get a new star for my 3-level general, and took on some Spanish ships. Spain attacked 3 again, which pinned half my invasion army so I had to call off the attack. I defended successfully again, and went 2 for 4 in the naval battles. At last, the Pope showed up -- with a warning for ME

Am I just suipposed to let these fork-toungued @#$%^& attack me for 10 years without responding????

Anybody else seen this disgusting favoritism? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

[Basileus]

Yeah that sucks but the pope will defend the weaker Catholic factions even if they are the aggressors..try to hold out and defend or take them or the pope out http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[MuseRulez]

I only get excommed when I invade and besiege a castle for more than 2 years. And since you defended successfully, the Spanish won't be excommed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Lord of the morning]

I say, kille the pope and he will never ecomunicate you again, also his provinces are rather good.

[Quokka]

You get the warning if you attack a Catholic faction that has less than 50% of the provinces that you own. So I bet the Spanish own much fewer provinces than you. They won't get the warning or excommunicated because you are way more than 50% of their size.
Be very careful with your ships. Now that you have been warned it is likely you will be excommunicated due to a ship battle. If the Spanish attack one of your fleets and LOSE then this counts as a victorious attack and will see you on the outs.
One advantage is that you can only be warned about one faction within 10 years. So now you have been warned to leave off the Spanish but you can now attack ANY OTHER christian faction without risk of excommunication until the 10 year time limit expires, so have at it.

[Mummer]

Meh, I would say take over the Pope but A) Instant excommunication, and B) It's a strain on your resources to hold Rome, as his holiness pops up every few years with a gigantic army, so you have to keep a decent garrison there, AT ALL TIMES.

[metatron]

This, and the Spanish are generally fighting the Almos, so they get a bonus in the Pontiff's eyes.

[SmokWawelski]

SO there is actually sort of a formula for how the excom warrning messages are calculated: 50% this way or another?

Interesting - is this a well known fact?

[Doug-Thompson]

I love these threads. I play Muslims and laugh at your misery.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Lord Xelous]

You know this is the first time I've seen people have a problem with excom... I use a second line army process to deter crusades against me... the process is to have a weak from line of territories, just a few peasants, to hold the strong holds, then behind that I have 1 very large concussion force to simply drive the invading crusade thehell home.

Placeing the force behind my lines lets it move into any of 3-4 front line territories.

If I'm playing in Europe I also try to have a strong fleet to picket my shores, then use a small number of assassins in my frontline & port enabled territories to kill invading spies/diplomats.. and slowly you see the pattern that the AI simply slings a great anvil at you 2 or 3 times, then he's spent... attack him and you get excom.. but also, rebuff the crusade9s) against you with your concusssion forces and just roll on over the aggressor...

(I know I've over simplified, but many of my players I meet up with in person - mates & colleagues - seem to always over stress their front line forces, but having large armies in 3-4 front line provinces is resource draining & time consuming... 1 or 2 large concussion forces behind your lines and 1 large strike army are enough to kil anything the AI can send at you {up until hard... after hard you may need to be a bit jammy} )

[Kampfen]

Quote[/b] (Quokka @ Jan. 25 2004,10:32)]One advantage is that you can only be warned about one faction within 10 years. So now you have been warned to leave off the Spanish but you can now attack ANY OTHER christian faction without risk of excommunication until the 10 year time limit expires, so have at it.
If this is true, you will have my thanks many times as I will use this tactic to lay waste to my enemies. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[The Tuffen]

I hate the pope, so many times I've behaved myself and not attacked the french then the git sends Inquisitors at me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif (although he always go's for my generals in scotland)

[Quessa]

Phew, that pope is a hell of a man (he even believes that the folks would bow before him just because he has a cool black cape with a lousy hat).

I often play with the Byzantines and get irritated in those crusading Christian armies coming from Hungary and burning down the most popular taverns as they go (Booze is a gift of Satanus). In fact, I got so irritated that I rumbled down Hungary. And when I had come there, I decided to run across the whole province. When I had come there, I decided to run across that little nice sea separating me from Italy. And doh, when I had come this far, I decided to run across the whole campaign map, finally finding my greatly divided Imperial armies from Spain dozens of angry Catholic armies coming after my trail.
Well, you guess what happened, a nice half-an-hour of epic fighting on Spain's plains and hundreds of slain and captured men filled the screen.

Cheers, Quessa.

[Cazbol]

It is a very common belief that the pope, God's infallable emissary on earth, is a just and fair man. It is also a very wrong belief. The pope is just as corrupt, powerhungry and oppotunistic as you are. He does not excommunicate based on fairness. Excommunication is but a weapon in his hand and he uses it to aid those in his favour and harm those out of favour. Furthermore, he tends to favour the AI factions over the human faction.

I fail to belive the 50% rule. My experience does not support it. In my view the rule is: if the pope doesn't like your face then you're in trouble. Finally, I don't think a failed attack (lost battle) counts as an attack but I'm not entirely sure about that.

[Quokka]

From post by Eat Cold Steel:

The rule for excommunications are:
If you attack the Papist you are excommunicated automatically. You will get a warning if you attack a Catholic faction who is a lot smaller than you (control about 50% less regions than you.) You can avoid actural excommuncation by not attacking or siegeing enemy castle on the second year - either assault any castles you are siegeing in the first year or redraw your troops in the second (assaulting, continue siegeing castles, attacking new regions in the second year is not allowed.) After that turn you are returned to neutral if you comply. During the 10 years time out, you are not allowed to move any of your troops onto regions belonging to the other faction - this includes region you've lost to them in the mean time and castles that are under siege (no sallying So if you are not sure if you can win a defensive battle, retreat, else your troop may end up trapped in the castle.

and another

The rules for excomunication is quite simple. If a faction with twice the number of regions attacks, he gets a warning. Any aggressive action before the warning runs out leads to excomunication. Sally out of a besieged castle is not aggressive (since the patch) but retaking lost a region does count as aggressive. Attacking the papist is automatic excomunication. Blocking a crusade in conquest mode is automatic excomunication, in glorious goals mode it depends on if the crusade's object is a goal or not.

Being friendly with the pope has no effect on the rules. But he will send you cash if he has any spare.

and another

MTW can only remember one warning per faction at a time, No player is issued multiple warnings for aggression against multiple factions, only for the first faction attacked
- remember the ten year limit for your warning though, once that runs out you will be issued a fresh warning for your first aggressive action.

[the_holy_knight]

A little thing i jsut thought of right this very moment.
If you send a crusade and it fails doesn't that dent the generals loyalty to you. And if it does when you get xcommed just wait for the crusades and beat them then the faction who sent the crusade might go into a civil war and then you snag the rebel provinces MUHAHAHAHA http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-builder.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-builder.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-builder.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-balloon.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/handball.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/handball.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif
I luv these smileys

[Quokka]

The loss of a Crusade or Jihad will cause the loss of 1 point of influence. This loss of influence will cause a loss of loyalty in the Generals of that faction but may not be enough to ignite a civil war. Going from 8->7 its unlikely whereas going from 4->3 its likely and from 3->2 its almost certain.
So if the influence of the sending King is low go ahead and crush the Crusade. If its high then let it wither and die slowly. It will (supposedly) stop the faction from building another and may be looting the province of your neighbour it is stuck in.

[The Tuffen]

Has any one else seen a catholic Rebellion in the province the Pope is in? It happened to me last night and thought that it was quite amusing. Thankfully the pope hasn't done anything in the game yet, I've got him nicely surrounded in Rome and no crusades have been started at all during the game http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Jags]

Quote[/b] (Quokka @ Jan. 29 2004,20:03)]The loss of a Crusade or Jihad will cause the loss of 1 point of influence. This loss of influence will cause a loss of loyalty in the Generals of that faction but may not be enough to ignite a civil war. Going from 8->7 its unlikely whereas going from 4->3 its likely and from 3->2 its almost certain.
So if the influence of the sending King is low go ahead and crush the Crusade. If its high then let it wither and die slowly. It will (supposedly) stop the faction from building another and may be looting the province of your neighbour it is stuck in.
Do you get any bonus in influence if you crush a Crusade? For example, I'm playing Byzantines and a French Crusade wants to pass through my lands. If I don't let them, they try to pass by force. I crush them... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-evilgrin.gif

Do I get something else beside the eternal hate of the Catholic World??? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-whip.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tomato.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-hanged.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-behead.gif

[DthB4Dishonor]

Hehe, when playing campaign I dont even worry about excom. I just keep on attacking. The pope even frequently calls crusades against my factions. I say to hell with him and see you in a few years Pope However II. As long as you keep a strong defensive force on onside of your lands and expand on the other your fine. But dont try and take on to many guys at once if you cant deliver a knock blow to them in a few years. Prolonged war with 2 or more countries is bad.

[The_Emperor]

The Pope...

Oh just send some Syrian Assassins after him, that will shut him up http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-rifle.gif

[Kampfen]

OK, but I dunno about that 50% thing. Seems I've been warned plenty attacking factions at least as big as mine. I think the AI is trying to make it hard for me, period.

And about that greedy Pope...

A man asked his priest if he'd perform a funeral service for his dog that just died and the priest said it would be sacreligious to do so and was out of the question but suggested he go down the street and try the Baptists. So the man said he would and asked the priest if he thought 5,000 dollars donation was too much to give to the Baptists and the priest said, Sweet Mary, Mother of Jesus Why didn't you tell me the dog was Catholic?

[Serpent]

I have noticed that pope takes good care of his allies... For inc-tense German attacked against France and after conquering most of england they ware lot bigger but also Popes ally France was excommunicated Same happened whit English.

Same happens whit Islamic factions I was allied whit Pope and he didint raise a fist when I Destroyed Polish but when I toked Hungary out I had to deal Whit 7 Crusades from 4 factions.They Where allied whit Pope to.

Make also sure that you have assassins ready to go and emissary close by for locating Pope.

And good tip for all people in here bribe castle garrison if possible that way you dont have to be afraid that pope or anybody stays there after battle... And I Always Put very low taxes in Rome and I dont have this re emerging problem every 5 year period....More like every 50 year.

[Serpent]

Papal states are small and good to save for last.Rome should be taken as early as possible if you play Italy in any era.

That way you dont have to worry abaut re emerging problem and Pope does not try to take you out as long you have some troops in your provinces....Pope wont excommunicate you after you have killed him and new has been elected...Spy´s could be made for revolting province and after they have it take it.

[Kampfen]

Well, I wouldn't say that. I've had 1920 men and a six star assasin in Naples and have killed about five Popes and he still warns me off the Spanish in Sinai every time I try to advance on them. King Henry is a Christian King and he won't risk Hell for earthly riches.

While I'm busting on the Pope...

An old man walks into confession and says to the priest, I'm eighty-five and have been faithfully married for fifty years, have seven grandchildren and yesterday i picked up two college girls hitch-hiking and they asked me to take them to a motel where I had sex with both of them all night long. The priest said, Do you wish to repent from your sins? and the old man said, Heck no and the priest said, What kind of a Catholic are you? and the old man said, I'm Jewish. and the priest said, Then what are you doing in here telling me? and the old man shouted, Hey, I'm telling everybody

Carlo sez 'HI'