Should there be blood?

[Duke of RumpyPumpy]

Do you think there should be blood in RTW???

I for one think there should be an option of turning it on and off.

I would like to see my enemies defeated and slaughtered across the battlefield.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-party2.gif

Of course I would assume the developers would like to put it in. But I think it comes down to game ratings. They will get a lower rating without blood.

Perhaps they could add in a few other effects upon victory as well:

Conan What is best in life?

To defeat your enemies. See them driven before you. And hear the lamendation of the women.


Ahhh Yes that is good.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif
(From Conan the Barbarian Movie)

[alman9898]

Only small hints of blood for a little realism. No 'Saving Private Ryan' material, though.

[MiniKiller]

yes blood with an option to turn it off as well as a slider for max blood or little blood.

[Basileus]

if it uses to many resources i wuld say no..the game running good is far more important then seeing some blood.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

How much many resources does a bit of blodd really take up? Anyway, if it's a selectable option, I'm all for it. I want as many selectable options as possible; hopefully most will be good, and the others I can turn off.

[Ludens]

I take more satisfaction from seeing my enemies flee than from seeing them bleed. I am not someone who has his nose constantly pressed against his monitor to see soldiers dieing.
Adding blood is going to take more time, more computational power and will only drive up the "age-rating", so for my part they can leave out the blood. But this is just my opinion.

[*Ringo*]

As with all things like this I think there should be an option to turn it on or off. Why not have the choice? The more feature the game has the better IMHO http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Cheers,

*Ringo*

[The_678]

I would love to see blood in this game, but if it is in the game it would have to optional. And it should be. You should also be able to choose super gory to little squirts.

[Acronym]

I think there should be an option to turn it on or off. If it is a resource hog then just turn it off.

Though it would be interesting to see a physics engine that allows limbs to be lobbed off.

[DemonArchangel]

No Kill Bill/Soldier of Fortune 2
Ridiculous blood sprays.
Blood must be realistic at least.

[spmetla]

Quote[/b] ]To defeat your enemies. See them driven before you. And hear the lamendation of the women.



Hey, that's stole from my favorite Genghis Khan quote:


Quote[/b] ]"The greatest pleasure is to vanquish your enemies and chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth and see those dear to them bathed in tears, to ride their horses and clasp to your bosom their wives and daughters"-Genghis Khan

[Spino]

Blood would be nice but methinks having thousands of tiny bitmapped bloodspurts on screen all at once would look positively silly. Imagine thousands of fountains of arterial spurts accompanying the screams and squeals of the combatants It sounds like something out of a Monty Python flick.

Now pools of blood on the ground where an unusually large number of men have fallen would be a nice touch. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[DemonArchangel]

Of course, battle may just be like a monty python flick

[Michael the Great]

BLOODY YES
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Basileus]

Quote[/b] (Michael the Great @ Jan. 26 2004,15:42)]BLOODY YES
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif
You beeing from Wallachia who would have thought otherwise mr Dracula http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[LordKhaine]

I'm guessing we wont see blood on a "Severance: Blade of Darkness" level ;)

[ChErNoByl]

my guess is that it'll be like in MTW. When a soldier dies, he falls on the ground and bleeds for a bit. I wouldn't like to see blood fly out of people while they're still fighting, i think it would look silly if you're looking at 1000 soldiers stabbing away.

[Game Over!!!]

Be able to turn it off is best. My daughter is 5 years old and she loves to watch the battle scenes. She laughs and squeals when she sees the horses riding around the screen. She tells me that all the little men are dancing together, not fighting. Leave the option to turn it off...if it's incorporated into the game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Nelson]

Quote[/b] (Game Over @ Jan. 27 2004,13:18)] She tells me that all the little men are dancing together, not fighting. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Yeah, must be one of those 1930's dance marathons. Folks falling down all over the place http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]
Quote[/b] ]She tells me that all the little men are dancing together, not fighting. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

Yeah, must be one of those 1930's dance marathons. Folks falling down all over the place http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif
ROTFL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[Knight_Yellow]

i would just be happy if after a long battle the survivors would have a small bit of wear and tear on their equipment and a few splashes of blood on their garmants.

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ Feb. 02 2004,16:34)]i would just be happy if after a long battle the survivors would have a small bit of wear and tear on their equipment and a few splashes of blood on their garmants.
Seems a bit a waste of resources: making twice as many models, just for a minor graphical effect that is only important in long battles.

[Knight_Yellow]

Quote[/b] (Ludens @ Feb. 02 2004,16:39)]
Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ Feb. 02 2004,16:34)]i would just be happy if after a long battle the survivors would have a small bit of wear and tear on their equipment and a few splashes of blood on their garmants.
Seems a bit a waste of resources: making twice as many models, just for a minor graphical effect that is only important in long battles.
its not twice as many models.

its a skin, that just gets applied randomly on the models.


nothing resource demanding about it.

[Lord Of Storms]

I dont think blood is needed or should be accentuated any more in RTW,
I have seen some of the games with copius amounts of blood in them.some are in very poor taste and cater to a different crowd.
I just don't see the Total War games as that type.
and I like it that way...LOS

[Wishazu]

I dont consider myself all that bloodthirsty but i wouldnt mind seeing a river run red with blood for a bit if you kill a decent enough sized gruop of the enemy. WOW... you could even have the bodies being carried downstream that would look cool and wouldnt be gratuitous.

[Michael the Great]

Quote[/b] (Basileus @ Jan. 26 2004,16:22)]You beeing from Wallachia who would have thought otherwise mr Dracula http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
Just call me Michael,k?
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif

[Shigawire]

Wooooow Vlad Tepes The Third. He liked to impale people
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

With regard to blood. Those who don't want to see it in the game might as well choose the "on/off" method. For it is really easy to implement in this engine - according to Dutch (CA). It's only a matter of hanging on to the PG-13 rating.
First of all, it could be done using wide textures being placed on the terrain and smaller painskins on characters.. And maybe even use particle systems with facing particles (bitmaps) where each bitmap is a blood squirt. With a particle system you could apply physics like gravity on it. And you'd of course want realistic blood, not buckets of it like in Mortal Kombat.

Dutch of CA replied to an ancient thread in the official forum eons ago. He said it was something they could implement on a dime, but he said they wanted to know what the public thought first.

I'm all for the on-off

Such a factor of malevolence will multiply the grittyness of the atmosphere, and make the player feel extra guilty/uncomfortable about sending his men to die.

Just the way I like it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-party2.gif

[Knight_Yellow]

this is why i hate age certifications.


just add blood and guts and slap an 18 on it becuase the kids will get it anyway.


as proven by GTA and several online games.

[Lord Aeon]

Man, it's been awhile since i've posted...

Anyway, blood would be excellent, if it was done with some measure of restraint. We don't need buckets, but it shouldn't be Goldeneye blood either. And certainly the option to turn it off should be there.

[1dread1lahll]

plz remember that the screen shots of units are taken at a close up angle that will most like not even be availbe to end users. The standard veiwing angle for the game will be at such a distance that 'blood' could not be seen even if included; it would lag, it would cause yet another delay in the release date,it would cost more,...I voted no.

[squippy]

Ic an't see how it would add lag; it weill be drawn at the client end, surely.

I'm against games that sanitise violence; this goes for TV too, nothing irks me more then seeing people shot, except there is no blood, or this stupid Hollywood crap of Buffy-style "heroes" who smite evil over the place and never get their make-up mussed. I think sanitising violence like this normalises it, makes it acceptable becuase its all so neat and clinical. Therefore I think there should be pools of blood on the ground (no spurts necessary) as an addition to the prone body images.

Violence is ugly, dirty, and stinks. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

[econ21]

I voted no, only small bits of blood if any. I see MTW as playing with toy soldiers on a computer. When I play with my metal miniatures with my young son, I would be appalled if they started spurting blood, losing limbs and leaking red stuff onto our playing mat. We play for fun and an accurate depiction of what medieval weapons can do to a man would not be fun for any but the most depraved.

On the other hand, I strongly believe that when films show violence, it should be authentic. People should be shown bleeding to death over an hour from a gut shot; mothers should be shown wailing over corpses etc. For an example, Boyz n the Hood did this rather effectively. I'm not even sure I would soften this much for children. For example, I don't mind if my son seems real violence on the news - he should know the world he lives in. (Obviously this has limits, but news programs draw those limits fairly appropriately so far.)

It seems there is a contradiction in my views here. I guess my belief about movies is that they should represent reality. This is primarily about serious movies that are supposed to depict reality rather than fantasy. I guess I am afraid that if people see violence as easy and painless, we'll encounter more of it in real life.

With wargames, I really don't have the same fear. If the worst we have to fear is a horde of spotty geeks rampaging around our streets, proclaiming they have a high morale and +3 armour, we'd be in good shape. No insult to spotty geeks, intended, of course. Been there, still wearing the tee-shirt.

[MiniKiller]

but i dont get it.

why no blood in a game that has some historically accuracy.

the board game theory doesnt hold casue thats a whole different ball game, i dont think anyone would want their toy soilders to bleed on ur hands and the mat etc.

i see ur point with movies and agree but in this game i voted yes but with an option to turn it off.

[Ludens]

I agree completely with Simon Appleton. If films show violence without the mess that results from it, we might actually be encouraging violence because it seems as if there aren't any consequences, as if it is normal. Of course, this does not mean that I have nothing against films that show excessive violence.

[Shigawire]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif



Quote[/b] ]With wargames, I really don't have the same fear. If the worst we have to fear is a horde of spotty geeks rampaging around our streets, proclaiming they have a high morale and +3 armour, we'd be in good shape. No insult to spotty geeks, intended, of course. Been there, still wearing the tee-shirt.

HAHaha good one http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-party2.gif

[caspian]

The feature of showing hundreds of dead bodies rotting in the field during a battle is already awesome in MTW. And seeing a pretty large amount of corpses that the green grass/brown sand is no longer visible. Maybe just giving the 'dead bodies' a small red pool at the sides would be fine. Sprouting blood would belong to Shogun as Katanas have this effect, severing limbs cleanly that the veins are undisturbed and continue to pump blood. Nasty

[Warmaker]

I want blood but not to the point where it's ridiculous. Make it an option too.

[Nowake]

I think blood is more than neccesary for the ambient. If in Shogun .. well, in Shogun all worked perfectly, and in Medieval the perspective didn't require its presence, when we go 3D we have to have it.


But, of course, I voted only for small bits of blood, we don't need more.

[Crazy Duke]

I'm for the blood, but to be realistic as the game is
For all you blood lovers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Knight_Yellow]

I still think my "simple" skin change would be better.


it doesnt involve rivers of blood or any ER moments where a guy arm flys off and the ward gets covered in the red stuff we all love.


Troops who have been engaged for a prolonged time would in real life be bloodied and bruised, a simple random effect thats something like

If Unit 1 has been fighting for > 5 minutes X amount of Dried blood is applied to the model or X amount of Dirt marks etc.

wouldnt add lag and wouldnt be hard to do.

a Half way decent skinner and a coder could do it pretty well in a week without extra costs.


Contrary to the "violence on TV decensitizes" theory i add that Not showing the blood and bile etc. simply makes people think there are no consequences to shooting/stabbing some1.


Take Old WW2 movies and a guy gets shot, he just grabs his gut squeels and falls over.

compare it to Saving private ryan or Band of brothers where a guy gets shot and midsection falls apart and literaly bleeds his clothes red.

what ones more likely to horrify a person into recognising the consequences of war?

[Knight Keimo]

Quote[/b] (Knight_Yellow @ Feb. 21 2004,01:42)]I still think my "simple" skin change would be better.


it doesnt involve rivers of blood or any ER moments where a guy arm flys off and the ward gets covered in the red stuff we all love.


Troops who have been engaged for a prolonged time would in real life be bloodied and bruised, a simple random effect thats something like

If Unit 1 has been fighting for > 5 minutes X amount of Dried blood is applied to the model or X amount of Dirt marks etc.

wouldnt add lag and wouldnt be hard to do.

a Half way decent skinner and a coder could do it pretty well in a week without extra costs.


Contrary to the "violence on TV decensitizes" theory i add that Not showing the blood and bile etc. simply makes people think there are no consequences to shooting/stabbing some1.


Take Old WW2 movies and a guy gets shot, he just grabs his gut squeels and falls over.

compare it to Saving private ryan or Band of brothers where a guy gets shot and midsection falls apart and literaly bleeds his clothes red.

what ones more likely to horrify a person into recognising the consequences of war?
Right. I´m not personally bothered details like cutting of heads, arms etc, but its a simple fact, that after fighting some time there should be blood on the terrain and the troops should be filthy and bloody.

Just like battle of Zama, where Roman infantry was unable to advance anymore, cause terrain was too bloody and slippery. That means a lot of blood

[Beelzebub]

Lol it's hilarious the way some people want to play a game where the objective is to slaughter thousands of your enemies with weapons designed to messily maim and disembowel, but OMG THERE CAN'T BE ANY BLOOD WE MUST PROTECT THE CHILDREN.

[Shigawire]

Baal-Zebub: PRECISELY MY SENTIMENT http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

Don't conform to political correctness. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-party2.gif

[econ21]

Quote[/b] (Beelzebub @ Feb. 21 2004,12:50)]Lol it's hilarious the way some people want to play a game where the objective is to slaughter thousands of your enemies with weapons designed to messily maim and disembowel, but OMG THERE CAN'T BE ANY BLOOD WE MUST PROTECT THE CHILDREN.
Well, that would be hilarious if the objective of the game was actually to slaughter anyone, messily or otherwise. But you do know the "enemies" are not real people? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif They don't have blood.

Playing wargames is one thing. It's a well established hobby, with almost no history of blood and gore (think chess, tin soldiers, counters on hexboards etc). Watching gore is another, commonly done in screen depictions but now possible in wargames thanks to computers. I love wargames, can't bear gory movies. Lots of folks like both, neither or just the gory movies. No need to bundle the two products.

Is it funny to simulate war but not want to see what the consequences would be? Well, playing games is (my idea of) fun. The more realistic the depiction of blood, the less fun I would find it. Blood splatters and dismembered limbs would be beyond my limit.

It may be strange, but I suspect it's human nature to be fascinated by violence whereas dwelling on the gore is a matter of taste that many don't share.

The fascination with violence may to a degree be a harmless outlet for aggression, but I suspect it is more to do with an instinct for self-preseveration (much like the excitement of monkeys when they spot a predator). Either way, I think it's pretty healthy.

Enjoying depictions of gore is probably a minority taste. I suspect many like myself are squeamish for good social and evolutionary reasons. I far from convinced it is a healthy taste, although that may be just my prejudice.

There ends today's lecture in cod-pyschology, which I confess may have been unintentionally hilarious.

[Divine Wind]

I want blood, headless bodies, limbs strewn across the field, bloody carcasses catapulted into enemy fortifications, dead animals littering the landscape, and just about anything else that will satisfy my bloodlust http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[squippy]

Quote[/b] (Simon Appleton @ Feb. 24 2004,07:56)]

Quote[/b] ] It may be strange, but I suspect it's human nature to be fascinated by violence whereas dwelling on the gore is a matter of taste that many don't share.

Point taken. I am totally uninterested in gory movies per se, and I think that it is frequently over-used in cinema. But my little simulationist heart can't help but notice that there is not even a little red-brown patch on the ground where all those bodies lie. It just irks me that it appears to have been deliberately ommitted... because, as above, it just should not be hard to implement and is an interesting oversight.

[AqConsul]

I believe that blood should have an option to turn off. I think that sometimes I am angry or wanting to be historical and turn it on, and others I am just wanting good, clean fun...not a blood-fest 2004.

[DemonArchangel]

blood, all of it, i wanna see what an axe does when it cleaves into a person's chest. I want intestines pouring out of barbarians when roman soldiers stab them.

[Sir Robin]

I don't mind whether there is blood or not but I definately want bodies laying around afterwards.

I seriously doubt that I will ever zoom in close enough to see blood even if the engine shows it.

I do want to see the aftermath of my handiwork however. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Michael the Great]

Quote[/b] (Simon Appleton @ Feb. 18 2004,10:20)]We play for fun and an accurate depiction of what medieval weapons can do to a man would not be fun for any but the most depraved.
Oh now don't be so sure about that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Russian Threat]

Quote[/b] (alman9898 @ Jan. 24 2004,16:20)]Only small hints of blood for a little realism. No 'Saving Private Ryan' material, though.
Or "Gladiator" material as well. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Frankymole]

Quote[/b] (Acronym @ Jan. 25 2004,22:03)]Though it would be interesting to see a physics engine that allows limbs to be lobbed off.
Best of all would be a game engine that allowed unhorsed cavalry to fight/flee, and riderless horses to run amok (in real battles they often disrupted friendly infantry formations). More likely to affect the battle than the odd arm flying off (did they, anyway??).

[SwordsMaster]

Quote[/b] (squippy @ Feb. 18 2004,09:11)]I'm against games that sanitise violence; this goes for TV too, nothing irks me more then seeing people shot, except there is no blood, or this stupid Hollywood crap of Buffy-style "heroes" who smite evil over the place and never get their make-up mussed. I think sanitising violence like this normalises it, makes it acceptable becuase its all so neat and clinical. Therefore I think there should be pools of blood on the ground (no spurts necessary) as an addition to the prone body images.

Violence is ugly, dirty, and stinks. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Agree with that completely, you should be able to turn it on/off though.

As Hammilcar Barca put it: "The only thing worse than a victorious battle is being defeated."

BTW, ive seen someone going against violence, this is Total war, so if you dont want violence youre in the wrong place...

Also agree that gore is not appropriate at all.For gore, play Soldier of Fortune...

Dixit

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (SwordsMaster @ April 07 2004,07:16)]
Quote[/b] (squippy @ Feb. 18 2004,09:11)]I'm against games that sanitise violence; this goes for TV too, nothing irks me more then seeing people shot, except there is no blood, or this stupid Hollywood crap of Buffy-style "heroes" who smite evil over the place and never get their make-up mussed. I think sanitising violence like this normalises it, makes it acceptable becuase its all so neat and clinical. Therefore I think there should be pools of blood on the ground (no spurts necessary) as an addition to the prone body images.

Violence is ugly, dirty, and stinks. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Agree with that completely, you should be able to turn it on/off though.

As Hammilcar Barca put it: "The only thing worse than a victorious battle is being defeated."

BTW, ive seen someone going against violence, this is Total war, so if you dont want violence youre in the wrong place...

Also agree that gore is not appropriate at all.For gore, play Soldier of Fortune...

Dixit
I agree. That's the idea...

[Tricky Lady]

Quote[/b] (Ludens @ Jan. 25 2004,15:58)]I take more satisfaction from seeing my enemies flee than from seeing them bleed. I am not someone who has his nose constantly pressed against his monitor to see soldiers dieing.
Adding blood is going to take more time, more computational power and will only drive up the "age-rating", so for my part they can leave out the blood. But this is just my opinion.
When it's only going to slow down the performance of my PC, I say "no thanks".
BTW, I think it's is (graphically) already great that the corpses of the killed soldiers don't disappear after a certain timeframe, but they remain visible until the battle's over. That adds already enough realism for me. I don't need no extra blood, nor cut off arms, leg or heads. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I want my Celts wading through Roman blood But i'm a sicko so thats probably the reason for it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif