florin level for rome...

[1dread1lahll]

After messing with the Hellinic and Nap mods, I thought this might be time to broach this subject. Ive found that these two mods are played best with all units at vo (zero)or about 8k. At less that 8k for htw you cant buy 16 units(htw), and the morale is set very high. For ntw, if given more that 8k you may as well play mtw (pump some units, and use them to rush with; keep just 4 or so for shooting)...., so what do you think? Shall we all start disagreeing now?

[CBR]

Quote[/b] (1dread1lahll @ Jan. 26 2004,02:05)]Shall we all start disagreeing now?
Hell yes why not http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

From what I have seen in screenshots and what CA has described RTW will be very much like MTW when it comes to different faction, different unitsizes and many units to pick from.

That means the good old STW/MI upgrading just doesnt work. If you have money to buy upgrades there are no reason to buy the cheaper units and that is also what we see in MTW.

The focus should be on units and not upgrades. Instead of buying valor for a unit to make it better than the rest you just spend money on a good unit instead.

Thats more or less how the 4-5k MTW is like although it has some balance issues there. But the idea is that you cant buy 16 heavy knights and rush everyone to death.

Factions are also very different. Some will have more lighter/cheaper units than other factions. I doubt the Numidian faction will have many heavy units to pick from compared to the Romans. So if a player wants money enough to get all his precious praetorian cohorts and dont want any lighter velites, because they are not cool enough, then we will have problems again.

A simple test for MTW is to look at the 4 best/most expensive units of a faction. You will find the western to be most costly and if people are gonna load up on these units only a lighter faction is in trouble. So you basically have to look at the cheapest faction and make sure unit selection is interesting for that particular faction(meaning a player is not forced to buy just the most expensive units)

So the money level for RTW should be something CA should decide on and stick with when developing the game. I really hope they will focus a bit more on the MP aspect to cut out the most annoying balance issues before the game comes out. It can be very difficult to try and fix a lot of big problems afterwards, especially is things like unitcosts are tied to the SP and cant be changed for MP.

From my experiences with modding I dont find it that hard to balance the game even with many units. But from the start you need a clear idea of what type of gameplay you want. And the more unhistorical unittypes and upgrades are involved the more difficult it gets.


CBR

[Sulla]

IMHO, i would say you bring units for what they are developed to do.. You use heavy infantry (FMAA, CMAA) to shock the enemy and outlast him, light infantry (Mili sergeants) to beat up on flanks or delay enemy cav, heavy cavalry to ride down the enemy cav or flank, archers to shoot the enemy archers or infantry and light cav in archer rush or screening activity...

This wont be a big difference to RTW and is historical correct. One thing im bugged about in MTW is for example HJI. This is a great unit, but at 10k they are only worthwhile against cavalry, degrading them to a spear type unit. I would like the elite units made cheaper and thus easier to upgrade, making them kick ass affordable units. By using a system of uppricing when you select more of them (atm 4, but why not 2 or 3 to show, there werent only HJI around during Battle) you can make it all worthwhile

just my two cents http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Regards Sulla

[Brutal DLX]

To have a diverse fight, buy equal valour armies only, v2 max IMHO. Any higher and most units become too pumped up. Find a florin level that doesn't let you select only the best units. At this level, you could still play around with upgrades, but they don't have such a big effect anymore.
Perhaps upgrades should be disabled altogetehr for RTW, but I still think they serve the point of fine-tuning your units, and proper rules and florin levels ensure you can't go overboard.
Of course it could be argued that we shouldn't need to impose rules in the first place, but then either the valour system or the florin levels need to go, meaning all units either have an unalterable valour and a distinct price, or units have no cost but you can assign valour points to them from a definable pool, only that each unit has a different valour cap. The latter would require extreme attention when setting the unit stats and the individual valour cap, but it would result in a real rock scissors paper system, eg. if you took 16 heavy cav you could run into 16 spears and lose. But spears could be beaten by swords and missiles. This, in the end would force players to pick "sensible" balanced armies.

[Orda Khan]

We may have to wait and see what we can afford with our Dinari

....Orda

[TosaInu]

You could ask for 4 max in STW, the host should be able to just set a caps from 1-22 in RTW. Same goes for all those other things like upgrades.

[Alrowan]

darn i got beaten to saying it would be denarii

[MiniKiller]

I think all units should start our at base.

Like for example u make apeasent unit.

They fight bravely and can "become" spearmen.

I would like to see 5 or so base units all which "evolve" based on their performace to higher levels.

anyone agree?

smae with archers and horsemen etc