Advice for Irish

[The_678]

The other day, for the first time I successfully used Horse archers. I think I kinda know how to use a skirmisher now. That made me want to try the Irish.

Can anybody give me some good advice for playing as the irish? Should I focus on Dartmen or Kerns? Should I have a gallowglass heavy army, or Noble heavy?

Thanks

[R'as al Ghul]

Hi The_678
I had great success with dartmen against spearmen. Dartmen are better as Kerns as they have greater range.
Gallowglasses are good shock troops against most spear-units when properly reduced by skirmishers before.
The Noble heavy cav is really a must in my opinion.
Gallowglasses will be too weak against the vikings later on.
Cheers

[Ironside]

Bonnachts are excellent but considering that you want to train with skirmishers they might not be the best choice. They are more similar to nafta bombers but with combat abilities after you used those heavy spears. A good throw kills half the enemy unit. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

[gaelic cowboy]

Irelands wealth is the key you will be able to supplement your armed force's with the odd huscarle and archery unit from time to time.
You will be able to tech up unmolested for a good long time too.
kerns are much better skirmisher's than dartmen bonnachts are class too but use sparingly. Those javelins should do alot of damage to those enemy armoured unit.

[bighairyman]

i'm confused, is the Bonnachts hand2hand unit or a javelin thrower. they are pretty expensive. (i'm also playing as He Irish). anyway, i just recently conquered Ireland. so now which province should i invade. i have ships all along the west coast of the england, so i could attack any province. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif

[ichi]

Bonnachts are 100 man infantry units with, IIRC, one heavy spear projectile. Then they can switch to H2H with good attack bonus but a horrible defense. Give em armor and valor to get their defense up to at least zero or 1 and they can fight ok for a while.

ichi

[Brutal DLX]

Bonnachts bonnachts bonnachts. Add some lighter jav units to replace the missing archers, and throw in a few gallowglasses and cavalry. Cavalry quality is important, too.

You should use a balanced army, if you get cav heavy you will have problems with spear armies, get more gallows and you will have problems with missile troops, cavalry and also sword infantry, to some extent. Use the bonnachts to fire their volley, then charge them at the enemy, flank with the gallows and get the cavalry to their rear charging in or taking care of enemy archers, while your lighter jav units support from the sides, specifically targeting heavy enemy units.

[Cazbol]

I'm playing the Irish at the moment and the standard armies that I use consist of:
3 bonnachts
8 gallowglasses
4 mounted nobles
1 royal bodyguard
This fulfills my obsessive compulsive need to have stacks of 16 units numbering exactly 960 men. Furthermore this seems to be fairly balanced combination. I've chosen to omit ordinary spearmen completely as my opponents only field very little cavalry. The bonnachts form the front line, causing as many casualties as possible with the javelins but when they get engaged in melee the gallowglasses behind them charge forward while the cavalry flanks. Tactics are fairly crude as I rarely try to hold any sort of line but rather charge at the enemy trying to kill as many as possible as quickly as possible.

As for bighairyman's question on where to attack, I would tend to suggest the Saxons. The reason is that their starting forces are quite weak but become very strong later on once they get their huscarles. The same goes for the Mercians. To top that they sit on the richest provinces. However, the political situation may demand another approach and in my current campaign I started with the Welsh and any rebel provinces on the west coast, which gave me a very long border along almost the entire west coast.

[R'as al Ghul]

Cazbol,
either you have to very fastly surround a huscarl-strong Viking army or you will loose, won't you?
I reckon those Viking units would make mincemeat out of the Gallowglasses as long as you don't attack them with the horses from behind.
Which tactics do you use? Did you have to face strong Viking armies yet?
I'm also playing the Welsh at the moment and the Viks aren't my allies, so any advise would be good.
Cheers...

[The_678]

Damn For some reason I thought that the Bonnachts were much better. bighairymanI am still just at the beginning and I learned something very useful. Always builds Inns everywhere. I have about 12 units of archers now all mercenary. They are a very useful addition to my army. Right now my big army I am about to attack with consists of
4 Archers
4 Bonnachts
4 Gallowglasses
4 Royal Bodyguards

I hope this army can slaughter like I think it will. I've also bought about 8 Mangonel's, but they aren't really needed all that much in VI.

[R'as al Ghul]

The_678,

I also used mercenaries in my battles. Be careful,
they have very bad morale. You shouldn't use merc-only armies. They'll rout fast.
Cheers

[Cazbol]

Quote[/b] (R'as al Ghul @ Jan. 27 2004,06:38)]Cazbol,
either you have to very fastly surround a huscarl-strong Viking army or you will loose, won't you?
I reckon those Viking units would make mincemeat out of the Gallowglasses as long as you don't attack them with the horses from behind.
Which tactics do you use? Did you have to face strong Viking armies yet?
I'm also playing the Welsh at the moment and the Viks aren't my allies, so any advise would be good.
Cheers...
I must admit that I haven't fought the vikings at all even though the year is ca. 930 and I only have 7 more provinces to conquer, plus ending 3 sieges.. I began my campaign by dedicating one province to the production of ships to defend my coasts and thus avoid tempting the vikings to raid the easy pickings. I also allied with them as quickly as possible. The only huscarles I've fought were Saxon and Mercian. Gallowglasses clearly lose badly to them, so my cavalry was committet to backstab huscarles as quickly as possible, and if that wasn't enough I'd shower them with javelins. When possible I'd try to isolate the huscarles and surround them from all sides and just keep coming at them. There really is no magic cure against huscarles on the battlefield, so I advice inocculation: attack any Saxon and Mercian provinces capable of producing huscarles.

As for the Welsh, there was a thread about them a few weeks ago. I haven't played them myself but the most convincing advice was to expand early and then against the Saxons and the Mercians to wipe them out before they get their huscarles in greater numbers. The celtic warriors are a very good unit early on so it's important to use them as much as possible before the other factions catch up with their units.

[Revenant69]

I have one question. How many javelins do Bonnachts get? Is it 4 like other standard javelin units? I am about to face them in Ireland and so this info would be kinda helpful.

Thanks,
Rev

[R'as al Ghul]

@ Revenant69:
I reckon it's only one. Read it somewhere on the board, don't know for sure.
Cheers

[Revenant69]

EEEEk, only one? Well, thats 100 javelins flying through the air...I guess it could hurt LOL http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

I really thought it was four. I think this makes bonnachts somewhat wimpy. But I could be wrong.

[Cazbol]

I haven't counted but there are at least 4. Six would be an absolute maximum but 4 or 5 sounds about right.

[pdoan8]

If Bonnachts have more than one heavy spears, they would be a little too powerful. Their weakness only show when they have to sustain a long fight without their throwing spears against heavier armoured, better morale opponents like the Vikings infantry or Saxon Huscarles or cav army. Other than that, only Celtic Warriors can match the fighting power of Bonnachts.

I often use Bonnachts in front to receive enemy charge when they still have their throwing spears. If I time the shot well, the initial kill by the throwing spears can rout the enemy instantly. Only those high morale troops of the Vikings and Saxon Huscarles can stand the inital contact. But out number the enemy by 2-4 times by now, the Bonnachts should be able to win.

Add to that with the killing power and AP weapon of the Gallow, supported by a couple of Kerns and a few Cav, the killing spree is on.

Irish troops lack of defense and morale, so spending the money on armour and morale upgrade early on would be a good idea. Kerns have +1 valour bonus somewhere, Laigin I think.

My Irish army usually consists of:

5 Bonnachts
4-5 gallow
2-3 Kerns
3 Mounted Nobles (Don't leave the Cav home. Enemy archers are nasty)
The general (prefer mounted)

I only use Dartmen early on and against weaker, non-armoured troops.

Spears are optional. Probably 1 or 2 guarding in the rear against sneaky cav charge.