Obake/Krae/Miz do you have stats?

[shingenmitch2]

Hey since you guys were involved in the "tweaking" of stats for the new patch, could you tell me if they are something that I can easily check out on my own? Are the stats files understandable -- ie. easy to figure out which number represents which stat (many times in games they are unlabled)

Or would one of you be able to provide me with a list of the stats for the units?

Speed, Attack, Defense, Fatigue, Morale

Thanks

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PS what is your understanding of the effect of your tweaks on the "Foot Naginata"? Do they fatigue less? Are they a more viable unit only just slow?

That was always the problem in the past--- slow was bad enough, but once they fatigued they sucked, so you'd have a slow crappy unit http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Slow might be more acceptible now if they were a truly strong, nasty unit.


-----

Ooooh, one other thought/question --

Was anything done to fatigue for standard marching? It seems to me that eliminating fatigue for walking would be a good idea considering the size of "big" maps. It would allow attackers to take their time and march a good route without worring about fatigue.

There would be normal fatigue acrual for "running" thus there would be reason to March Quickly only judiciously.

(I realize the this isn't very realistic, but it would be a good solution to big map marching fatigue. The Idea of having to turn off the fatigue altogether is just bad cause then everyone runs everywhere -- GAH)

[This message has been edited by shingenmitch2 (edited 01-18-2002).]

[Shoko]

Find them in troopStats file;
Well here they are http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Projectile type: NONE = 0, LONG = 1, MTLG = 2, ARQB = 3, MSKT = 4, NINJ = 5
Unroutable: true = 1, false = 0
Marching speed: 1 - 24
Running speed: 1 - 24
Charging speed: 1 - 24
Minimum turning speed: 2 - 8
Maximum turning speed: 2 - 8
Max turning angle whilst in motion: 8 - 256
Speed at which soldier turns towards the direction of motion 8 - 8
Space between neighbours left and right: 30 - 125
Space between neighbours back and front: 30 - 125
Enemy engagement proximity threshold: 500 - 2000
Charge bonus: -6 - 12
Melee bonus: -6 - 12
Defence bonus: -6 - 12
Armour level: 1 - 12
Honour level: -4 - 8
Ammo ( arrows or bullets ): 0 - 255
Unit size (based on 60)


SamuraiArchers
{
1, 1, 5, 9.2, 11, 2, 8, 8, 256, 75, 75, 500, 2, 0, 0, 1, 0, 28, 60
}

YariSamurai
{
0, 1, 5, 8, 9.5, 2, 8, 8, 256, 75, 75, 1500, 0, 0, 2, 2, 2, 0, 60
}

Naginata
{
0, 1, 5, 8, 8, 2, 8, 8, 256, 75, 75, 1500, 2, -1, 8, 6, 4, 0, 60
}

Nodachi
{
0, 1, 5, 10, 12, 2, 8, 8, 192, 75, 75, 1500, 8, 5, -2, 1, 8, 0, 60
}

CavalryArchers
{
2, 1, 8, 23, 27.6, 2, 8, 8, 64, 115, 125, 2000, 10, 0, 1, 3, 2, 28, 60
}

HeavyCavalry
{
0, 1, 8, 20, 24, 2, 8, 8, 8, 115, 125, 2000, 9, 2, 7, 6, 6, 0, 60
}

YariCavalry
{
0, 1, 8, 24, 28.8, 2, 8, 8, 8, 115, 125, 2000, 15, 1, 2, 3, 4, 0, 60
}

YariAshigaru
{
0, 0, 5, 10, 12, 2, 8, 8, 96, 75, 75, 1500, 0, -1, -1, 0, -4, 0, 60
}

Phantoms
{
0, 0, 5, 10, 12, 2, 8, 8, 96, 75, 75, 1500, 0, -1, -1, 2, -4, 0, 1
}

Arquebusier
{
3, 0, 5, 7.5, 9, 2, 8, 8, 128, 75, 75, 500, 0, -6, -3, 1, -4, 15, 60
}

Musketeer
{
4, 0, 5, 8.4, 10, 2, 8, 8, 192, 75, 75, 500, 0, -6, -3, 1, -4, 20, 60
}

WarriorMonk
{
0, 1, 5, 10, 12, 2, 8, 8, 256, 75, 75, 1500, 4, 5, 2, 1, 8, 0, 60
}

A_Ninja
{
5, 1, 8, 10.9, 13, 2, 8, 8, 256, 75, 75, 300, 8, 8, 4, 2, 10, 10, 12
}

A_SwordsMan
{
0, 1, 5, 10.9, 13, 0, 8, 8, 256, 75, 75, 2000, 8, 18, 7, 3, 8, 0, 1
}

A_Mongol_Javelin_Thrower
{
6, 0, 5, 8, 10, 2, 8, 8, 192, 75, 75, 400, 0, -1, -1, 5, 0, 4, 60
}

A_Mongol_Spearman
{
0, 0, 5, 9.2, 11, 2, 8, 8, 256, 75, 75, 1500, 0, 0, 1, 2, 1, 0, 60
}

A_Mongol_Polearmsman
{
0, 0, 5, 7.5, 9, 2, 8, 8, 256, 75, 75, 1500, 4, 2, 4, 4, 4, 0, 60
}

A_Grenadier
{
7, 0, 5, 9.2, 11, 2, 8, 8, 256, 100, 100, 100, 0,-6, -3, 2, 4, 3, 30
}

An_Ashigaru_Xbowman
{
8, 0, 5, 9.2, 11, 2, 8, 8, 96, 75, 75, 500, 0, -6, -3, 1, -5, 16, 60
}

A_Nijinata_Cavaleryman
{
0, 1, 8, 22, 26.4, 2, 8, 8, 8, 115, 125, 2000, 11, 4, 1, 4, 8, 0, 60
}

A_Mongol_Light_Cavaleryman
{
2, 0, 8, 24, 28.8, 2, 8, 8, 128, 125, 140, 2000, 11, 2, 2, 4, 4, 28, 48
}

A_Mongol_Heavy_Cavaleryman
{
0, 0, 8, 22, 26.4, 2, 8, 8, 128, 125, 140, 2000, 10, 3, 3, 5, 8, 0, 48

------------------

Clan Kenchikuka (http://pub14.ezboard.com/fclankenchikukakenchikukacouncilchamber)

[shogunnewbie1]

http://shogunnewbie.tripod.com
redzone hints Tactical Tips tactics logfile reader logfile viewer

Iim on the seen and helping you win the battle even if it means dieing for you !

[Kraellin]

hi mitch,

there are 2 key stat files we worked with, projectiles.txt and troopstats.txt. these are both found in the main directory of the game. there is also a nice explanation of this stuff in the mods forum by Target, who we all know, works for CA. i'd suggest looking there for help. CA also fixed a number of things in the code during our mod period, the biggest of which is prolly the fatigue issue. it was this which enabled us to make viable nags again. they dont fatigue nearly as easily now. the stats in those files are mostly easily understood. the ones that arent are handled by Target's explanations. it's also notable that there are stats we couldnt mod...hidden stats. so it's a what you see is NOT what you get in some cases.

what had occurred in patch 1.01 was that fatigue somehow got screwed up. every unit was tiring faster than it shld. one of the first things we asked CA to fix, while we were doing our modding thing, was this fatigue error. once that was handled, all units became more viable re fatigue. the nags were also boosted in other stats. we knew which units were hardly ever used in multi and we resolved to make every unit worth its koku. this is why nags are now stronger and heavy cav are now worthwhile and why guns were toned down a bit. i mean, what's the point of having the unit in the game if no one will use it.

the modding process was quite an interesting exercise in not only balancing units and cleaning up the code, but one of working with different folks with different viewpoints as well. what do you do when 6 folks all think this unit shld be this way or that and no two agree on any one point. it was also fun working with CA. talented people all and despite some of the snipers around here, quite willing to help ;)

K.




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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

[Puzz3D]

Mitch,

The naginata had its defend value raised by +1 and its armor raised by +1. In addition, the attack was decreased by -1 and the defend increased by +1 to make it even more of a defensive unit. Also, the foot speed of all units was adjusted, and the naginata isn't at as much of a disadvantage in speed now. Walking is actually the same speed for all infantry.

Fatigue is not an adjustable parameter. It's a time based rate which is different for standing, walking, running, charging, fighting, and is affected by weather conditions. I checked out three units: YS, ND and NI, and, when walking, they all fatigued at the same rate. They all went from "fresh" to "quite fresh" at the same time about 3/4 of the way across the width of a small flat map. They got between 1/2 way and 3/4 of the way back before all became "quite tired". In one test, I rotated the line to reverse direction to go back instead of the individual units. The two outside units, YS and ND, had to reverse places. These two units didn't even get 1/2 way back before becoming "quite tired" while the center naginata remained "quite fresh" until it got almost 3/4 of the way back across.

When standing, fatigue seems to plateau at "quite tired". I believe walking plateaus at "very tired", and recovery to "quite tired" is possible by resting. It should be possible to attack without being at a tremendous fatigue disadvantage on a large map if you take your time.

In checking this out, I noticed that the ai does suffer fatigue. You can observe this by watching an ai unit alternate between running and walking as it tries to chase one of your units. Your unit will do the same thing as it oscillates between "exhausted" and "very tired". An exhausted unit cannot run, but recovers to "very tired" once it slows to walking. Whereupon, it starts running again and gets exhausted immediately.

In addition to the att/def penalties in fatigued units, there is also a morale penalty for "very tired" units, and this morale penalty increases for exhausted units.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

[shingenmitch2]

Thanks guys!

Great stuff.

Everyone knows ( or should know) that I have been extremely impressed with the changes made in 1.02 they were excellent. It changed a game I was unhappy with, to one that I think is better than the orginal STW.
-------

I'll need to check out using a Nag now and see how they work.

-------------

Didn't know fatigue was such an immovable stat. It really does hurt (on big maps) the guys who have to move. This certainly makes one less likely to take a long circuitous route to attack. (at least walking shouldn't have such a penalty to encourge full map usage)
I hope they consider this in the future.

[solypsist]

Here are Obake's stats:

Con: 18
Dex: 12
Str: 10
Wis: 15
Int: 17
Chr: 15

because you asked.

[Puzz3D]

And, in keeping with the rock, paper, scissors design: Obake beats Krae, Krae beats Yuuki and Yuuki beats Obake. However, Krae beats all when he takes 8 musk.

[Kraellin]

rofl yuuki ;)

K.


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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

[Vanya]

Quote Originally posted by Puzz3D:
And, in keeping with the rock, paper, scissors design: Obake beats Krae, Krae beats Yuuki and Yuuki beats Obake. However, Krae beats all when he takes 8 musk.[/QUOTE]

But Vanya will always win with the wet gunny wedgie army of doom.

[shingenmitch2]

Quote Originally posted by solypsist:
Here are Obake's stats:

Con: 18
Dex: 12
Str: 10
Wis: 15
Int: 17
Chr: 15

because you asked.[/QUOTE]

Gah! he might be a wizard with that, but no warrior.

I'm strength 20/20 -- you can't be, well I rolled it... no you didn't... demogorgon's my father... what?! no he's not... I'm half storm giant... look, I'm going home...

[shingenmitch2]

m

[Erado San]

I recall that on the final day of our testing one of the beta testers told me our stats were still not good because an 8 musk army was still unbeatable... can't remember if it was Kreallin though...

I also remember going into battle with that person and totally and utterly taking his 8 musk army apart for breakfast, lunch, dinner and in between snacks.

The '8 musks is invincible' is a myth. you just have to make sure the battle is fought YOUR way, and not the way the '8 musk weenie' wants it to be fought.

[Kraellin]

actually, it was the evil dutchman that showed us the 8 musk, 8 monk army and we all fell dead before it...except erado, who tore it apart. but it was a nasty army.

i hear now it's the mega ashi army that is giving folks fits, with a few guns thrown in. this too is defeatable, if you bring the right army. ashi's at honor 7 are somewhat tough, but remember, they still get a fairly big morale hit from their original stats. so pumping them up works, but they've a lot to overcome to repair that original morale hit. and they also still use the routable stat that samurai dont.

we're also hoping that for M:TW they will upgrade a few stats in that game so that we can tweak all the hidden stuff and prices and so on. we'll see. havent heard much about it yet, other than the normal pr stuff.

K.


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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

[tootee]

I wonder how much rework there will be on the combat system. I'm sure many suggestion for MTW are made in MTW forum, but maybe we can bring together ideas for a better combat system. It still not too late for them to change this part of the battle engine, being pretty standalone.

I'm with Krae, they should open more stat for us to tweak.

------------------
tootee the goldfish,
headmaster of Shogun-Academy (http://shogun-academy.tripod.com)
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[ElmarkOFear]

Actually, you are giving Obake a little to much credit in the Charisma stat. Since he is very Ugly his Charisma if more like 7 or 8. The other stats seem to be about right! LOL

[Fadeyi]

lol

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Everyman dies, but not everyman truly lives.