View Full Version : Slashing and Stabbing
DemonArchangel
01-29-2004, 00:15
hm... it seems as if the legionaries in RTW slash with their swords instead of stab as seen in the RTW movies.
Correct this CA
Sir Moody
01-29-2004, 00:24
heh there hasnt been one of these threads in a while :P
its been mentioned before and they probably will sort it out
Catiline
01-29-2004, 00:27
It doesn't need to be corrected from the point of view of historical correctness. The gladius tends to be thought of as a stabbing weapon, and that was perhaps was the ultimate intention. In fact it was equally servicable for cut and thrust, which explains its success. The ideal kill involved a forwards stamp and an upwards thrust into the groin/lower abdomen. However, you need a compliant adversary for that to be feasible, or you need to force an opening through cutting and slashing sword combat.
Well, I believe the Time Commander show of Telamon showed the legionaries as stabbing, but then again it seemed like everybody was stabbing.
Quote[/b] (DemonArchangel @ Jan. 29 2004,00:15)]hm... it seems as if the legionaries in RTW slash with their swords instead of stab as seen in the RTW movies.
IIRC this was an issue in the first episodes, but later on the Romans seemed to start stabbing as well. What bothered me more was troops hitting their enemy with the wrong side of their weapon http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif
RisingSun
01-30-2004, 03:15
What's bothering me is where the beautiful combat animations we saw in the movies and such went. I just finished my first couple episodes of time commanders, and they were brilliant. But, I must say- What has happened to the men bashing eachother with shields, knocking eachother to the ground and finishing them off in epic fashion? This was one of the greatest aspects of RTW graphics-wise that I saw. Finally, instead of just the same stabbing/hacking motion over and over, some variable, interesting, awe-inspiring combat.
If enough people agree with me, I might even make a complaint thread. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Sir Robin
01-30-2004, 14:51
Those were promos not the finished product.
While they used the battle engine they were also being tweaked for advertising.
I would love to have battles with thousand and all the different attack and defense sequences. However I doubt even a newer computer has the processing muscle to handle a big battle.
RisingSun
02-04-2004, 02:24
No, I saw an in-game screen on like IGN with the same thing. It had some two groups of Romans fighting eachother. I think it was green vs blue. I'll try to dig up the screenie if you like.
I believe the gladius is a stabbing weapon, made for short jabs when the time is right.~http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-idea.gif I do not think they slashed, with an up & down stroke, considering that they were in deep formations. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif
Quote[/b] (RisingSun @ Feb. 04 2004,02:24)]I'll try to dig up the screenie if you like.
Please do so
Quote[/b] (Morcini @ Feb. 04 2004,00:04)]I believe the gladius is a stabbing weapon, made for short jabs when the time is right.~http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-idea.gif I do not think they slashed, with an up & down stroke, considering that they were in deep formations. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif
My guess is that in a big melee you saw it all. The stab, the slash, the shield bash, the head butt, the punch, the foot stomp, the eye poke, the groin kick, the works.
In any event, I bet a Roman or Celtic fight was bloodier than a pike pushing contest among Greeks. Razor sharp steel swords must have made one hell of a mess.
RisingSun
02-11-2004, 00:49
I bloody can't find the original pic, but it had some green Romans fighting (i think) other Romans. Blue, maybe. I did manage to find another pic which might have an example, but it might just be a guy dying regular-style...
http://www.gamespy.com/preview2004/index21.shtml
It wouldn't let me post the pic, but I posted the link. Get past the add, and look at the first screenie in the article. Enlarge it, and that guy seems to be just falling while the other is about to finish him off. But, it's not obvious whether this is the case or he is just dying...
From what I have read in a book on the Roman army, the gladius was designed purely as a stabbing weapon, as others here have explained already. The Romans found that a man who had been stabbed in the groin or abdomen would loose blood and thus strength, very quickly. While making killing blows with longer weapons would obviously be effective, they found that such an action left them more exposed to enemy weapons. Using their large shields to push or knock the enemy soldier off balance, a Roman legionnaire would then move their shield slightly and stab him. Rinse and repeat. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif
Yes, Shamus, the gladium might indeed have been a stabbing weapon only, but as it is there are accounts of how vicious it was in slashing, being capable of beheading enemies in one stroke and such accounts.
So, the legionaries would use whatever means they had, to survive.
Trajan's column shows Roman soldiers using both cut and thrust. Skeleton remains at Maiden Castle also shows a tendency for both type of wounds.
A thrust is clearly the best way to make a lethal wound but can also be difficult to do because it can easily be parried by a shield.
The Gladius was a wellbalanced weapon that could be used for thrusting and slashing. Roman training focused on the deadly thrust but the realities of close combat meant that slashing were used too.
CBR
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