Help on building valo(u)r

[Mysterium]

I'd love any advice anyone has on building valour. It seems to me that the only units that get a decent amount are the ones who also get ravaged. What's the use of Gallowglasses with 7 valour when there's only 7 of them? When they're retrained, the average drops back down to 0 or 1. Should I be combining them with other high-valour units?

[Quokka]

Yes that is a very good way of getting a few units of higher valour units. It takes time to get them as the regular units need to get ravaged first. I do it often and the resulting super units are very effective.

[Mysterium]

Thanx Quokka,

As to merging units, I've had some troubles with that. Obviously, I can't merge two units when both of the unit commanders are lords of some province. But there've been other times when I couldn't merge, and as best I could figure out, it was 'cause one of the commanders had a trait, and that made him unique? Not sure . . . wish they'd made all these rules explicit, it's drivin' me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif .

Anyone else with valour tips would be great. Thanks

[Lo Rez]

how ever it's not all bad if u retrain and they drop back to 0 or 1

each soldiers valor is tracked individually and the unit's valor increases when they collectively reach the set amount

so a 0 valor unit 1/2 of veterans and 1/2 geenhorns will increase in valor much quicker than a fully green unit

but yes i do agree it's much better to combine 2 samller vetren units, in fact i often keep small damaged units in a near by province to combine when my main army takes losses http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

*edit* forgot to insert spelling changes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-surprised.gif
having a spell checker built in is great btw http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[ichi]

The most important easy thing to do in this game is to build your units in the provinces where they get valor bonuses. I posted this a long time ago, but could not locate it, so here is a repeat (for MTW have not checked in VI)

MEDIEVAL: TOTAL WAR

PROVINCE RESOURCES, TRADING GOODS, AND UNIT VALOUR BONUS LIST

By ichi for TotalWar.Org

Each province has individual qualities. Some have resources that can be mined, others have goods that can be traded. When certain units are created in the proper province, they start with a +1 valour.

Some players want every advantage, and extra valour and money helps. Others just like to play the game and have fun ‘recreating history' or something like that. For example, in Shogun I always built Yari Ashigaru in Tosa, even though they aren't very good for anything except soaking up arrows, bulking up your army or holding provinces and keeping happiness up. The analogy in Medieval would be building peasants in Provence. I like to build high valour French peasants so that opposing arbalesters can have target practice.

Once you have conquered a province that has a resource (salt, copper, silver, or gold), you have to mine it in order to profit. Same for trade goods (butter, cotton, dyes, fur, gems, glassware, grain, hides, honey, ivory, linen, olive oil, saltfish, silk, spice, sugar, pottery, wax, wine, wood, wool) you gotta build a trading post/merchant. You make even more by building ports and a chain of ships across sea provinces to trade with other factions.

In order to get the units that the province specializes in, you must build the appropriate buildings. The sheet that comes with the games is helpful, but I thought I would organize the info into this table to make it all easier. Some of the buildings required for a unit require another building, like a Citadel or Fortress.

I created this reference guide to help plan conquests and to use get the valour bonus by building units ‘where they should be built'. To develop the list I used the materials that came w/ the game, did some investigation (used the great Excel spreadsheet B_mtw_Build-Unit-data by A Florin and mtw_stats_v11 by Phong kah ho). Not everything has been completely tested, so don't whine if something ain't right. Uncertainties have a ??. There may be differences between version 1.0 and 1.1.

PROVINCE: resources // trade goods // Unit that receives +1 Valour when built in the Province (Limitations, Required Buildings)

ALGERIA: gold // none // none
ANATOLIA: none // none // Turcoman Foot Soldiers (Turks only, Town Watch, Bowyers Guild)
ANJOU: none // silk, linen // none
ANTIOCH: none // silk, spice, gems// Turcopoles (Inn)
AQUITANE: salt // wine // none
ARABIA: none // none // none
ARAGON: iron // none // Gun Galleys (Byzantine, Italian, Papacy, Sicilian only, Port, Cannon Foundry
(requires gunpowder and compass), Master Shipbuilder)
ARMENIA: none //silk, spices, gems//Armenian Heavy Cav (Muslim only?, Horse Breeder, Farm Upgrade)
AUSTRIA: copper // none // none
BAVARIA: salt // none // none
BOHEMIA: silver, iron // linen // none
BRANDENBURG: copper//linen, grain//Gothic Foot Knights (Italian or HRE, Town Watch, Spear or Bow
Workshop, Farm Upgrade, Baronial Estates, Master Horse Breeder, Master Armourer)
BRITTANY: none // linen // none
BULGARIA: none //grain// Bulgarian Brigands (Orthodox only, Town Watch, Master Bowyer)
BURGUNDY: none // wine // none
CARPATHIA: copper, silver, iron // none // none
CASTILE: iron // silk // Inquisitors (Catholic only, Church, Monastery)
CHAMPAGNE: none // grain // none
CHERNIGOV: none // none // none
CONSTANTINOPLE: none // silk, dyes, grain// Kataphraktoi (Byzantine only, Farm Upgrade, Town Watch, Spear or Bow Workshop, Horse Breeders Guild, Armourers Guild)
CORDOBA: none //cotton, hides // none
CORSICA: salt // none // none
CRETE: none // none // none
CRIMEA: none // grain// none
CROATIA: copper, silver// none // none
CYPRUS: none // none // none
CYRENACIA: none // none // Saharan Cavalry (Muslim only, Farm upgrade, Horse Farmer)
DENMARK: none // butter, saltfish // Longboats (Danes only, Port, Shipwright)
DESERET: snow // honey // Mormon Missionaries (Temple, Missionary Training Center, bicycles)
EDESSA: none // silk, spice, gems // Ottoman Sipahi (Turks only, Farm Upgrade, Town Watch, Horse
Breeders Guild)
EGYPT: none // cotton, ivory // Mamluk Cavalry (Egyptians only, Farm Upgrade, Horse Breeder)
FINLAND: none // furs // none
FLANDERS: none // wool, silk, grain // none
FRANCONIA: iron // none // none
FRIESLAND: none // wool // none
GEORGIA: none // none // Janissary Archers (Turks only, Town Watch, Grand Mosque, Master Bowyer,
Military Academy)
GENOA: none // silk // Genoese Sailors (Christians only??, Town Watch, Port, Bowyers Workshop)
GRANADA: silver // none // Almohad Urban Militia (Almohads only, Town Guard)
GREECE: none // cotton // none
HUNGARY: copper, iron // none // none
ILE DE FRANCE: none // grain// Chivalric Foot Knights (Catholics only, Town Watch, Spear or Bow
Workshop, Farm Upgrade, Baronial Estates//Courts??, Armourers Guild, Horse Breeders Guild)

PROVINCE: resources // trade goods // Unit that receives +1 Valour when built in the Province (Limitations, Required Buildings)

IRELAND: none //wool//Gallowglasses (Catholics//Christians only?, Town Watch, Spear, Swordsmith)
KHAZAR: none // wax, honey, hides // none
KIEV: none // linen, grain // none
LEON: iron // wool // Knights of Santiago (Spanish, Aragonese only, Church, Chapter House, Crusade)
LESSER ARMENIA: none//none//Ghulam Cav (Muslim only, Town Watch, Farm Upgrade, Horsebreeders
Guild, Spearmakers Guild)
LITHUANIA: none // wood, hides, butter // Woodsmen (Fort)
LIVONIA: none // wood, butter // none
LORRAINE: none // linen, pottery // none
MALTA: none // none // Knights Hospitaller (Italian only, Church, Chapter House, Crusade)
MERCIA: none // wool // Billmen (English only, Town Watch, Spearmakers Guild)
MILAN: none // silk // none
MOLDAVIA: none // grain // none
MOROCCO: gold // hides // Berber Camels (Almohads only, Town Watch, Bowyers Workshop)
MUSCOVY: none // furs // none
NAPLES: none // silk, olive oil // none
NAVARRE: iron none // none
NICEAE: none // grain// Pronoiai Allagion (Byzantine only, Farm Upgrade, Town Watch, Horse Breeders
Guild, Spearmakers Guild)
NORMANDY: none // none // none
NORTHUMBRIA: copper // wool, saltfish // none
NORWAY: none // wood, saltfish// Vikings (Danes, Novgorod only, Fort)
NOVGOROD: none // wood, furs // none
OZ: rubies // poppies // Flying Monkeys (Wicked witches only, Castle, broomstick)
PALESTINE : none // none // Knights Templar (English only, Church, Chapter House, Crusade)
PAPAL STATES: none // none // none
PEREYASLAVL: none // none // none
POLAND: none // wood, grain // none
POMERANIA: salt // linen, grain // none
PORTUGAL: salt // wax, olive oil // Caravels (Port, Dockyards)
PROVENCE: none // none // Peasants (Christians only, Fort)
PRUSSIA: none // wax // Teutonic Knights (HRE only, Church, Chapter House, Crusade)
RHODES: none // none // Hospitaller Foot Knights (Italian, Church, Chapter House, Crusade)
ROME: none // none x// none
RUM: none // none // Ottoman Infantry (Turks only, Town Watch, Bowyers Workshop)
RYAZAN: none // hides // none
SARDINIA: silver, salt // none // none
SAXONY: salt // grain // Gothic Knights (Italian or HRE only, Town Watch, Spear or Bow Workshop,
Farm Upgrade, Baronial Estates, Master Armourer, Master Horse Breeder)
SCOTLAND: none // none // Highland Clansmen (Christians only?, Fort)
SERBIA: gold // none // none
SILESIA: none // wood // none
SINAI: none // none // Mamluk Horse Archer (Egyptians only, Town Watch, Farm Upgrade, Horse
Breeders Guild, Bowyers Guild)
SERBIA: gold // none // none
SMOLENSK: none // wood // none
SPRINGFIELD: uranium // doughnuts // Scottish Janitors (School)
SWABIA: salt // wine// none
SWEDEN: copper, iron // wood, fur, saltfish // none
SWITZERLAND: none // none // Swiss Pikemen (County Militia)
SYRIA: none // gems // Nizaris (Egyptians only, Town Watch, Bowyers Workshop, Grand Mosque)
TOULOUSE: salt // silk // Chivalric Knights (Catholics only, Town Watch, Farm Upgrade, Spear or Bow
Workshop, Baronial Castle, Armourers Guild, Horse Breeders Guild)
TREBIZOND: none // none // Trebizond Archers (Byzantine only, Town Watch, Bowyer)
TRIPOLI: none // cotton, sugar // Turcoman Horse Archers (Turks only, Farm Upgrade, Horse Breeder)
TUNISIA: gold // none // Dhows (Muslims only, Port, Shipwright)
TYROLIA: none // none // Pikemen (Christians only, County Militia)
VENICE: none // glassware, wool, silk // Galleys (Byzantines or Italian only, Port, Dockyard)
TUSCANY: iron // wool // Urban Militia (Town Watch)
VALENCIA: none // silk // none
VOLGA-BULGARIA: none // furs // none
VOLHYNIA: none // wood // none
WALES: copper // none // Longbowmen (English only, Town Watch, Bowyers Guild )
WALLACHIA: none // none // none
WESSEX: none // wool // Cogs (Christians, not Byzantine??, Port, (requires gunpowder, compass),
Shipbuilders Guild, Cannon Foundry)

PROVINCE: resources // trade goods // Unit that receives +1 Valour when built in the Province (Limitations, Required Buildings)

[Quokka]

Quote[/b] (Mysterium @ Jan. 30 2004,02:03)]Thanx Quokka,

As to merging units, I've had some troubles with that. Obviously, I can't merge two units when both of the unit commanders are lords of some province. But there've been other times when I couldn't merge, and as best I could figure out, it was 'cause one of the commanders had a trait, and that made him unique? Not sure . . . wish they'd made all these rules explicit, it's drivin' me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif .

Anyone else with valour tips would be great. Thanks
You've hit the nail on the head about the generals. This is a good thing as you can strip all the troops off of generals with bad VnVs and then just disband the Unhinged Loon, Inbred, Good Runner or whatever he is.

Another thing that I do is to strip governors of all their troops, except the ones that get stars and are used to fight. I then gather the single governors in the capital with my King. This keeps them more loyal and tends to slow down the gaining of bad vices. It also makes it easy they start getting the Brigand and Corrupt vices later in the game. All the governors are in one province and I just have to disband one man

[Kaboom]

the cheap and easy to add valour is to maximize your general star:
- 2 command bonus building is cheap and better than armour shop. So build them first when your general need it
- Only fight your big battle with your best general and their worst general your can find Seek a general advantage of at least 2 star You may need attack to be sure of victory
- bonus from general don't increase moral so your may add moral bonus building. 6 is good start for brave meelee troops. That is, you may need a church (+2) for produce brave billman (moral 4).

[Gregoshi]

Good show ichi http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thumbsup.gif

[Ludens]

Bravo Ichi http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Mysterium]

Yowza http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif Thanks, Ichi

Is that available as an Excel file somewhere? If not, I could just make my own and post it somewhere.

Quokka, you brought up another question I have when you mentioned putting all your governors in one province. Is there an easier way to deal with diplomacy than visually hunting all over the map, trying to find the characters you're looking for? As in, is there a list anywhere of the locations of the other factions' emissaries, princesses, king, etc., or at least the ones that I know the locations of? I get sick of trying to track down an emissary to call a cease-fire, before I've got emissaries in all the provinces.

Thanks

[insolent1]

Ichi nice post ye amadan http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
noticed you had a question mark beside gallow's as to whether orthodox catholics can build them, they can't same with highlandclansmen. I also noticed you forgot to mention some of the hidden valour bonus's that some provinces give ie Bulgaria gives +1 to JHI. Also since VI Syria gives +2 to assassins trained there & i'm sure theres a few more.

[.:vVv:.Monkey]

Does the star of the general correspond to the valor level?? So, if an army has a general with 4 stars, does that mean the valor of all the units are whatever the base is +4?

Also, how does valor and morale work together. If my general has 4 stars but one of his character traits give him -4 morale penalty then what am I left it?? Do they cancel out each other somehow?

Thanks in advance http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

-monkey

[Mysterium]

I know part of this one . . .

Command skill isn't a 1 to 1, it's 2 to 1. So, for every 2 stars, the units in the army get +1 to valour. A 6 star general contributes 3 to the valour of all the units in his army. The general's valour is a seperate entity from his command skill.

I know that for every level of valour in a unit, there's a bonus to attack, defense, and morale. But I don't know the specific numbers of that. I've seen them around here somewhere, but can't remember where they were. Anyone?

[Phatose]

+1 attack, +1 defense per point of valour. Earned Valour also gives +2 morale, but unearned (granted by a general) valour does not.

[ichi]

Its not an Excel file and yes, there are some double valor provinces and I do not show the second one (like Bulgaria I think).

Aregato insolent for the info on gallows and clansmen

ichi

[Quokka]

Quote[/b] (Mysterium @ Jan. 31 2004,00:37)]Quokka, you brought up another question I have when you mentioned putting all your governors in one province. Is there an easier way to deal with diplomacy than visually hunting all over the map, trying to find the characters you're looking for? As in, is there a list anywhere of the locations of the other factions' emissaries, princesses, king, etc., or at least the ones that I know the locations of? I get sick of trying to track down an emissary to call a cease-fire, before I've got emissaries in all the provinces.

Thanks
No there isn't without using cheats.

You can do .matteosartori. to show the whole map and all units. Just enter it when you are on the strategic map.

If you have VI and have the -ian extension then you can do the same as above or press 'g' for God Mode. You can then find the King you are looking for and then press 'g' again to leave God Mode.

If you do spot the enemy King you are looking for you can use your Emissaries, Priests or Princesses to call a ceasefire not just emissaries. Just drag and drop them onto the King as usual.

[Lord Rom]

One good way to build valor and not get a unit chewed up during the process is to...save them for chasing the broken enemy, such as using some cav units only when chasing them from behind. Lots of kills and not many losses. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
Rom

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (Lord Rom @ Jan. 31 2004,15:45)]One good way to build valor and not get a unit chewed up during the process is to...save them for chasing the broken enemy, such as using some cav units only when chasing them from behind. Lots of kills and not many losses. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I may have asked this question before, but I thought that killing routers does not give valour. Am I mistaken?

[k1injuries]

I was under the impression that each individual soldier in a unit retained its valor, and that the valor number one sees on the unit is the average.

So if you have 7 valor 7 gallowglasses and then retrain them, you'll have those 7 with 7 valor along with a bunch of greenhorns, making the average 7.

Am I mistaken?

I think I read this in one of frogbeastegg's faqs.

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (k1injuries @ Feb. 01 2004,03:16)]I was under the impression that each individual soldier in a unit retained its valor, and that the valor number one sees on the unit is the average.
So if you have 7 valor 7 gallowglasses and then retrain them, you'll have those 7 with 7 valor along with a bunch of greenhorns, making the average 7.
Am I mistaken?
You aren't mistaken. Unit valour is kept track of per soldier, not per unit. You can check this in the log file (but don't ask me how http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif ). So if you have ten valour 6 cavalry and retrain them in a province with no valour upgrades, you will get a unit of 60 cavalry with (10*6+50*0)/60 = 1 valour unit. However, unit valour can go down if the veterans get killed.

I believe weapons and armour upgrades are kept track of per unit, but I cannot remember where I had seen this proven. If you add a low armour unit to a high armour unit, all the newly added men to the latter will get high armour too (think of it as them being equipped with the armour of the dead men). Watch out, it works the other way around too: if you add high armour soldiers to a low armour unit, they will lose their armour upgrades.

[Lo Rez]

re: routers

u do increase in valor for catching them, but u have to catch a shitload, far more than if u were killing

and im pretty sure when killing u gain valour faster killing better units - don't know if this applies to routers or not but i'd imagine it does

re: emissaries

u can keep track of your own with the agent screen (dagger)
useful to keep assassins form getting themselves caught

things u may or may not know - if u want to prose a treaty or ceasefire with a nation u can drop your emissary on one of theirs and he'll then go seek out the province that their kings in. This doesn't work with bishops (can't remember about princesses)

if your looking for a governor of a province, open the province info screen and click on the governors name, this will take u to him

can't think of anything else, keeping track of your growing empire is one of the harder things about the game - i think this i quite good tho as is simulates bureaucracy and distraction from fiscal affairs by war etc http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif