Best Rushing Unit

[Crimson Castle]

Hello,

I've always been using the longbowmen+polearms+spearmen combo for sometime. This time I tried something different. I used a Halberdiers+chivaric swordmen+calvary combo to rush the enemy - high valor+weapons but no armor. I think I surprised him as he was expecting my usual longbowmen combo.

I placed my army right at the front. I rushed but the calvary failed to flank the enemy. It got caught up in the frontal infantry fighting. (The enemy was using a Janissary Muslim army). Thing looked ok but then my general got killed. The morale of my troops fell and even though I managed to panic the enemy general and capture him, I still lost. His archer units survived and pelted my surviving Halberdiers.

What is the best charging combo army?

[Dionysus9]

Well, I hesitate to help a "rusher" but:

Probably a Byzantine combo of fast Alan Cavalry (to break up archers so that infantry can advance unmolested), Byz Infantry (to "shock" the main line while still fresh [note: byz inf suffers from low morale and is not effective when exhausted], and Varangian guards for staying power.

Throw in some pavs and boyars to pepper the wavering lines and you've probably got a winner.

[Aelwyn]

Quote[/b] (Dionysus9 @ Jan. 29 2004,18:43)]Throw in some pavs and boyars to pepper the wavering lines and you've probably got a winner.
Byz have Boyars now? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif


I do agree with Bachus though. Byz are probably the best rushing army. 8 strong inf with 8 heavy cavs is good as well for rushing. But thats not very honorable.

[Dionysus9]

Doh I meant szek.. . . errr... faris... you know what i meant.


:P

[Ja'chyra]

Quote[/b] ]I do agree with Bachus though. Byz are probably the best rushing army. 8 strong inf with 8 heavy cavs is good as well for rushing. But thats not very honorable.

What's wrong with this? If I got caught by this trap I would congratulate the player and ensure he didn't catch me with it again. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif

[Swoosh So]

The best rushing is the the art of rushing without rushing http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[t1master]

is that like take the pebble out of my hand? or i already am where i'm going? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

the irish field a pretty nice rush army in the viking era. fast troops, with lotsa darts/javelins to pelt with and strong swords to follow up.

[Puzz3D]

Quote[/b] (Ja'chyra @ Jan. 30 2004,02:41)]
Quote[/b] ]I do agree with Bachus though. Byz are probably the best rushing army. 8 strong inf with 8 heavy cavs is good as well for rushing. But thats not very honorable.

What's wrong with this? If I got caught by this trap I would congratulate the player and ensure he didn't catch me with it again. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif
Ja'chyra,

The issue is whether or not there is a stop for it between players of equal skill. If not, then the Byz 8/8 sword/cav army is the solution to mtw/vi multiplayer and you need not consider any other army type.


Crimson Castle,

Forget the halberdiers and just take a sword/cav army. Don't let your cav get tied up fighting in the line, and don't loose your gen.

[Pitt_Slayer]

byzantine calvary http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif (bow,curved sword)

another good rush army on 1.1 is spain high\late.
(lots of sword\lancers)

[BomilkarDate]

Rushing used to be an art in patched MI, but in MTW, VI it is only one thing... boring. It is very hard to beat a player when you are using 6 or more shooters (and even with hybrids you are at a disadvantage). If a fast rusher with a good amry meets a great player with a shooting army the shooter will loose. Even with a so called "balanced" army the rusher will win. If you want to beat a rusher with a balanced or a missile heavy army. You need

A) More skill than your enemy
B) to know and organise your army well (and do micromanagement)
C) use the morale system as good as possible to break the enemy and hold at your "weak spots".
or
D) a foolish opponent (who charges cav into JHI or frontally into your main line.)

That much

Bom

[Pitt_Slayer]

good points but i thought he was asking for a good rushing army lol best to learn good tatic's then rushing

[Vanya]

GAH

Vanya is here to help

Vanya sez... the BEST rusher is actually the culvie

Vanya sez... get 16 culverins (aka culvies). Select them all and make them fire on enemy general. With each volley, 16 balls fall on enemy and give them headache. When youz have spent your ammo, or youz feel confident youz have enemy in disarray, put culvies in wedgies and charge into the fray. Just select all and double-click on general.

The result: total massacre Pig dogs shall flee in every direction wailing like women running back to their harems

That is why the culvie rush is referred to as "The Rush of the Gods".

GAH

[ichi]

Gah Vanya Gah

Just don't make the same mistake I did and get Demi-Culverins instead of Culverins. The Demis cant run very far without getting exhausted.

http://web.ukonline.co.uk/moore.jsrpages/scans/moore/tn_demi81y_jpg.jpg

ichi

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] ]If a fast rusher with a good amry meets a great player with a shooting army the shooter will loose. Even with a so called "balanced" army the rusher will win.

I do not agree. I have faced off against a rusher with a standard 'balanced' army and won.

The rushing guy used the tactic of deploying as far forwards as possible when defending, and I as the attacker couldn't deploy, so right from the word go my army was under attack.

The rushing army consisted mainly of Knights and Infantry with No Missile at all.

After a lot of my troops initially got routed I threw in all I had to fight for survival... Both our generals perished in the brutal fighting and it had a worse effect on his troops than mine.

In the end he was left with just a few MAA scattered around the field.

Ultimately I regrouped in the middlle of the field and had the superior numbers in the end, with some MAA, Lancers and Arbs who still had bolts remaining.

Still it was a very tough battle and one I certainly did not expect to win http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Mithrandir]

you probably faced a type D opponent.

a n00b who didnt pick valour or didnt charge, threw 3 units at one of yours,threw all his units at one of yours or something else stupid :).


I'm still undefeated with my English rush army, admitedly I used the deploy on the flanks (1v1-defence) tactic quite a few times. Dont use it anymore though, the fun was gone after 5 or so times. the problem with shooters is that they dont kill enough when frontally charged.

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Mithrandir @ Feb. 24 2004,12:11)]you probably faced a type D opponent.

a n00b who didnt pick valour or didnt charge, threw 3 units at one of yours,threw all his units at one of yours or something else stupid :).
That is almost certainly the case. Still I found it really funny because I have seen him host games practically every night with the same Map and settings...

Anyway I am new to multiplayer myself and losing still seems to be a regular occurrence http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

[Puzz3D]

The_Emperor,

Both the defender and the attacker can deploy their units anywhere within their deploy circles in multiplayer. Against a rusher, deploy at the back of your zone even if he has taken the defend side. Hold your ground making him come the maximum distance. If he refuses to advance, you have a draw.

[Swoosh So]

The new tactic of the day is to rush your opponent by drawing a line infornt of him then ctrl r pop 4 centrale units on hold formation and work the flanks this works well if your central 4 are cheaper than opponents like say cmaa v2 vs his fmaa v3 your cmaa should hold long enough for you to win the flanks and watch his centre crumble, when i do this my cmaa normally have 35-55 men left so is handy for the oh so important after battle in team games :)

[Puzz3D]

Swoosh,

It seems to me in that situation it's a race to win in the center before loosing on the flank. The player with the stronger center can put his flank units in hold to delay loosing there. However, a problem using v3 fmaa against v2 cmaa in the center is that their extra combat point is a defend point which doesn't help to win faster. Also, winning in the center with inf units, but loosing on the flank to cav, can leave a mobility disadvantage for the rest of the battle so that's something to consider.

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Puzz3D @ Feb. 24 2004,17:11)]Both the defender and the attacker can deploy their units anywhere within their deploy circles in multiplayer.
Really funny thing is I couldn't in that battle...

Oh wait a minute, I think i was typing in a message at the time and when I pressed "Enter" it might have cancelled deployment

GAH

(Whoever it was in CA that bound the Enter key to something as critical as that, should be shot)

Yeah thats right, line em up right next to the inventor of the "Windows key"

GAH

[Seven.the.Hun]

those chivalyic knight chaps have a good charge the enemy must always deal with...anyway if i charge then i'll rush everyone somewhere, sectioning off the whole enemy and rush a few cavalry to flanking positions...better to be fast especially against computer as it controls its units more effeciently, gotta keep up with it first to surpass it...i also always charge or retreat archers when arrows are gone, i chastize them for just standing around, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Puzz3D]

The_Emperor,

It's safer to click the send button to message, but you have to move the transparent window so that it doesn't overlap the one for beginning the battle. I always move that one to the top of the screen as soon as it appears.

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

That's why I don't chat http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Louis,

[Swoosh So]

Trying to win centre before the flanks? nah only v noobs or someone who leaves gaps.

[Mithrandir]

Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ Feb. 24 2004,12:05)]Yeah thats right, line em up right next to the inventor of the "Windows key"

GAH
I actually have the windows keys in front of me... on my desk, away from my keyboard... after yet again pressing them while trying my archers to go into melee http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[t1master]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif

i've poped my key off too, but i'm thinking pavlov dogs type action is needed. i'm gonna mount a pin on the key so i get a poke every time i hit it... soon i'll have conditioned my fingers not to go near it... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

btw, you can remap the keys if ya so choose.

[Dionysus9]

Quote[/b] (Seven.the.Hun @ Feb. 24 2004,12:11)]...better to be fast especially against computer as it controls its units more effeciently, gotta keep up with it first to surpass it...
I disagree that the computer controls its units more efficiently, but I do agree that you must be able to keep up with it before you can surpass it :)

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif

[Tempiic]

Quote[/b] (BomilkarDate @ Jan. 31 2004,11:24)]. If you want to beat a rusher with a balanced or a missile heavy army. You need

A) More skill than your enemy
B) to know and organise your army well (and do micromanagement)
C) use the morale system as good as possible to break the enemy and hold at your "weak spots".
or
D) a foolish opponent (who charges cav into JHI or frontally into your main line.)
E) Figure out how to effectively use skirmish mode against an direct

and B should be split up in, knowing and organising your army well and F) learn how to mircomanage effectively

[shingenmitch2]

"If you want to beat a rusher..."

Play 3v3 or 4v4 games. Rushers rarely benefit team play. I have yet to see a rusher or 4 rushers consistently win in large multies.

That being said, eventually in every game there comes a point where an "attack rush" is made, but that's a little different.

[spacecadet]

I disagree about rushers dominating. I only know of 1 guy in multiplayer who is consistently good at rushing with a rush army and even then i would give myself a 50% chance of winning while using a standard army with 4 shooters in it and maybe 1 or 2 hybrid cavs. Its all about fast manoeuvering to meet a weak spots (which there will be) or falling back or to the sides to disrupt their attackers formation when the rusher charges and keeping your own formation tight to hold long enough to force a break.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif

[Cid]

Would someone like to define rushing and a rushing army??

From what I've read it seems to be- A\Charging like hell from the git go and/or- B\ A predominantly hvy cav/sword combo.

What's the cutoff for these types of units for an army to be considered non-rushing? Neither A or B seem to be too popular and even though I haven't played MP yet I can kind of see why.

How's that for a noob question?