CRUSADERS_UNIT_PROD11

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Could someone explain what's the meaning of some of these colums? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

1-The one that says "Unit Base Strength Integer" in Gnome Editor, it's the 7th column.

2-The importance of numbers in the 11th column. The one that says "Rebelling Troop...".

3-The one that says "Unit Choises (AI)". The 15th column.

4-The importance of the 18th column: "Unit Class Labels".

5-The 43th column: "FORMATIONS_PREFERRED_NUM_ROWS( 3 )".

6-The 46th column: "Tooltip Labels Localisation Labels".

My eternal gratitude for those that can explain me these troublesome enigmas... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_bow.gif

[Eastside Character]

Quote[/b] ]1-The one that says "Unit Base Strength Integer" in Gnome Editor, it's the 7th column

I don't rally know, I always leave 1.


Quote[/b] ]2-The importance of numbers in the 11th column. The one that says "Rebelling Troop...".


This is very important column as it determines in what types of rebellions the given unit will appear, crusades and jihads are also treated as rebellions.


Quote[/b] ]3-The one that says "Unit Choices (AI)". The 15th column.

Determines how often, and which types of AI behavior will train the given unit.


Quote[/b] ]4-The importance of the 18th column: "Unit Class Labels".

Every unit has to be labeled in a way that later in a battle AI will recognize what type of unit it is, so it can use it for appropriate tasks (spearmen for fighting cavalry etc.).


Quote[/b] ]5-The 43th column: "FORMATIONS_PREFERRED_NUM_ROWS( 3 )".


Here you specify default number of rows of a unit.


Quote[/b] ]6-The 46th column: "Tooltip Labels Localisation Labels".

I'm not sure about this one.

If I'm wrong about any of these, please somebody correct me.

Regards
EC.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Thank you for the point by point report, Eastside Character http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thumbsup.gif




Quote[/b] ]
Quote[/b] ]
2-The importance of numbers in the 11th column. The one that says "Rebelling Troop...".
This is very important column as it determines in what types of rebellions the given unit will appear, crusades and jihads are also treated as rebellions.
But the numbers are related to the probability of a certain number of units of that type in a rebellion?




Quote[/b] ]
Quote[/b] ]
3-The one that says "Unit Choices (AI)". The 15th column.
Determines how often, and which types of AI behavior will train the given unit.
So a "defensive" faction will train less often and will prefer "defensive" units?




Quote[/b] ]
Quote[/b] ]
5-The 43th column: "FORMATIONS_PREFERRED_NUM_ROWS( 3 )".
Here you specify default number of rows of a unit.
Yes, but that concerns ideal battle effectivness or initial battle deployment?

[GreasePaintMonkeyBrains]

the unit strenght integer is the units "natural armor" if you will. For an example feudal men at arms is set at 1
and the vinkings units (landsmen,etc.) are set at 2
to make them tougher.hope this helps.

Regards
GPMB

[Eastside Character]

Quote[/b] ]But the numbers are related to the probability of a certain number of units of that type in a rebellion?


Not certain number of units, but rather probability of such unit appearing in a rebellion.


Quote[/b] ]So a "defensive" faction will train less often and will prefer "defensive" units?


Yes, but it all depends on how will you set it.


Quote[/b] ]Yes, but that concerns ideal battle effectivness or initial battle deployment?

It's about initial deployment, and generally has nothing to do with unit's effectiveness (as you can change number of rows of every unit in battle). It's important for the AI players as they do not change number of rows in battle very often.

Regards
EC.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Insightfull replies indeed, Lord GreasePaintMonkeyBrains and Lord Eastside Character http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thumbsup.gif

Thank you both very much http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_bow.gif

[Eastside Character]

I am glad I could help you Prince Aymar de Bois Mauri. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Voigtkampf]

All right, don't go to bed and fall asleep, respected lords, more info is needed…

I thought that the preferred number of rows means the number of rows where the unit gets the greatest bonus from when deployed in such manner; more or less and the bonus for perfect setting is gone. Therefore the naphta like 1 row, the archers prefer 3 rows and mounted sergeants 4, while the peasants like to be in 6 rows formation and so on – this goes for the AI, while some players like to put archers in 2 rows et cetera…

My point is; how can you tell that the "preferred number of rows" isn't in fact "the best possible formation for given unit"? I sure thought of it to be that way…

[Eastside Character]

Quote[/b] ]My point is; how can you tell that the "preferred number of rows" isn't in fact "the best possible formation for given unit"? I sure thought of it to be that way…

There is no such thing as the best possible formation for given unit, because it all depends on a particular situation in battle where appropriate tactics are different in different circumstances. For example, archers unit has 3 rows, and as you said some players prefer 2, these two rows instead of three makes they shoot on a slightly longer distance, but they are more difficult to maneuver as the unit is wider. On many occasions I used even 6 rows for archers, as I was defending on a hill, I had about 5 units of them, and maybe 3 spears and there was not enough space so 6 ranks made the things easier to fit my army there. The default number of rows is important for the AI, as it does not really change it in battle too often (cannot adopt to the situation as human player). So this means the default number of rows is good, but not the best possible in every situation.

Regards
EC.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]There is no such thing as the best possible formation for given unit
For spearmen and pikemen there is, because of ranking bonus:

-Spearmen: 2 first rows can fight.
-Pikemen: 4 first rows can fight.

With deaths the bonus is lost. So, it is better to not getting them below 3 (2+1spare) with spearmen and 5 (4+1spare) with pikemen.

[Voigtkampf]

Lord Eastside Character, though I understand your argument that the adaptive approach is the best strategy, I tend to agree with the respective Lord Aymar de Bois Mauri, because of the so called ranking bonus.

It appears that all units have a preferred number of rows not merely because of the fact it looks neat and tidy that way, but to set the AI with the basis deployment that is simply the most effective. Generally, deeper the lines, lesser the chance of enemy breakthrough. Some units prefer a higher number of ranks, peasants for instance, because they are of low quality and need to draw their strength from there, while others fight that way because their weapons enable them to do so, like pikemen and spearmen, where next to the fighting row there is always a supporting row or two that backs them up.

It is further reasonable to say that since the AI doesn't change the number of rows other than the default value, the default value must be the most efficient one. At least I have never seen the AI to spread its archers in two lines or to change any given number of rows, as well as I have never seen the AI using the wedge formation; since I play on the expert level only, I doubt that the difficulty setting has anything with it. Therefore, I will stay with my theory of the number of preferred rows to be the most efficient basic setting as long there are no conclusive proofs that it just might be different.

[Eastside Character]

Quote[/b] ]It appears that all units have a preferred number of rows not merely because of the fact it looks neat and tidy that way, but to set the AI with the basis deployment that is simply the most effective.

Dear Lord voigtkampf,
I can agree with that this basic deployment is the most effective in the most of the battle situations, but not always.

Regards
EC.

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Eastside Character @ Feb. 03 2004,01:41)]
Quote[/b] ]It appears that all units have a preferred number of rows not merely because of the fact it looks neat and tidy that way, but to set the AI with the basis deployment that is simply the most effective.

Dear Lord voigtkampf,
I can agree with that this basic deployment is the most effective in the most of the battle situations, but not always.

Regards
EC.
Yes, and that is the point I'm glad we understand each other, respected Lord Eastside Character; I was referring to the overall "best" number of rows for a certain unit type, by no means implying that the said number of rows is always the optimum one

I just love when things clear out.

Regards,
voigtkampf