Spears vs. Cavalry /valour + morale

[R'as al Ghul]

Hi there
I did some research after hearing that the spears loose their rank boni in the woods.
Now I thought that the best possible situation to face a cav charge/attack would be in the woods because of the penalties the horses get.
In the thread "Charge the spears?" it is said that the spears loose their rank-bonus. If this is true would it be better to face the cav in open terrain or does the penalty for the horses equal out the missing bonus in the woods??
And if they loose their rank bonus is it better to deploy them in only a single line (or 2)?

Part 2 of my question is:
Can anyone tell me the difference between valour and morale and their effects. Translating back and forth from German has mixed things up for me.
As I understand it the "valour" is seen on the units parchment and is subject to boni and penalty (good general/ bad battle situation) I always translated "valour" as being the motivation to fight - thus leading to single kings routing whole armies.
"Morale" is something that you cannot find in the game but only in its statfiles/ its code. Right know I'm confused how this influences my troops and how I can check this while playing.
Anybody who can explain this?
Cheers
P.S.: Ah yeah, and then there's "honour"

[Thon]

for each lvl of valor a unit has it gets +1 attack, defense, and morale. unless the valor comes from a general, then it doesn't get +1 morale.

morale measures how likely a unit is to stick and fight, or run away.

if a unit is getting butchered by swordsmen, and then a swarm of knights crashes into their flank, they tend to wanna run.

you can't see exact morale outside a battle iirc, as it changes constantly depending on conditions. if a unit is tired, it's morale lowers. if it's on a hill, or has a unit protecting it's flanks, its morale goes up. if the morale gets low enough, the unit will turn around and run off.

some units start the battle with a higher base morale, such as knights. others like peasants base morale is horrible, and they'll run away if they see their own shadow most of the time.

as for honor, i'm not sure but i think that was valor in Shogun. but i havn't played shogun, just heard it in reference

[Kaboom]

1 valour = 1 attack + 1 defense + 2 moral (honour)

General star command don't give moral, just give 1 attack + 1 defense for each 2 stars. Someone said 1 attack for the first star and 1 defense for the next star.

You may see attack, defense, valour, moral in F1 screen in battles.

Hope this help.

[R'as al Ghul]

Thx for the quick replies,

so I wasn't completely wrong.
valour (what has obviously been "honour" in Shogun) is a
bonus factor for att/def representing somewhat the quality of the unit, while "morale" is a battlefield-factor which is situation-depending (standing on a hill makes us nervous and stuff).
Right?

[cutepuppy]

AFAIK, horses get a -2attack, -2 defense penalty in woods. Losing the rank bonus in woods means that spear units lose 1 extra attack and 2 extra defense, while pikes lose 2 extra attack and 4 extra defense. So pikes get in fact a bigger penalty than cavalry, while spears get only a small advantage compared to cavalry. Best to use your spears in open terrain and keep halbardiers (or swords) in woods.
What really confuses me is the fact that spears appear to lose their rank bonus when they charge, while rank bonus is supposed to give +1charge/rank.

valour may be compared to "battle experience", leading to higher attack,defense and morale, and higher accuracy for missile units.
Their is a difference between 2 kinds of valour:
1) general-induced valour
this is dependant on the number of stars of your commander. morale isn't increased, attack and defense are influenced like this:
1* = +1 attack
2* = +1attack, +1 defense
3* = +2 attack, +1 defense
4* = +2/+2
.....
there is also an increasing accuracy for missiles. basically, it is +1 valour for every 2* of your general, without morale upgrades.

2) battle or virtue induced valour
units can gain valour by killing/capturing enemies or if their unit commander gets a virtue. Here every valour point increases attack and defense with 1 point and morale with 2. There is also an improving accuracy.

both kinds of valour can be combined. So a unit, with a commander that has a +3 valour virtue in an army of an 8* general will have +7 valour in battle, resulting in +7 attack (+3+4), +7 defense (+3+4) and +6 morale (+2*3+0)

Morale is basically the willingness to fight in battle.

All the stats can be showed in battle when you press f1, but these are basic values (with upgrades, but without battle modifiers), so penalties when outnumbered, under fire our exausted are not showed, nor the bonuses when outnumbering, winning or having a height advantage.

hope this helps a bit.

I know there is somewhere a thread which gives all the morale and melee modifiers for different situations, but I can't find it.

edit: damn, three posts while I wrote this

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] ]I know there is somewhere a thread which gives all the morale and melee modifiers for different situations, but I can't find it.
Morale & melee bonuses and penalties can be found in the New? Read this first (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=15;t=5047) thread in the entrance hall. It is in the first post, below the Shogun-section.

[Puzz3D]

Cutepuppy has it right. The cav not only losses combat points, but it won't be able to charge effectively in trees either. This is a thread that discusses combat bonuses (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=8298;hl=defensive+bonuses)