Do you want to cut heads in battle?

[Dead Moroz]

I think that swordsmen and axemen must cut off heads of units they fight with. It should not happen every time they kill an enemy. Maybe it should be rare thing. But it should be present in RTW. In STW and MTW killed soldiers just falls down like they were shot by bullets. Cutting heads will be effective and historic appropriate feature in the game.

And a few words about horses in Total War. Why do they always die with their masters? Stop it please, CA No animals must be harmed while we playing this game.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-help.gif

[RZST]

i vote yes yes yes.
yknow what would be more nice?
when you actually see the prisoners and YOU ACTUALLY KILL THEM that would be so awesome.

[Nowake]

First option .. Asurnasirpal redivivus, Ky Kiske?

[The_Emperor]

Yes, yes, yes

Those Headhunting Celts need to be able to gather their own collections http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

And No AXEMEN for the Celts http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif

[Sir Robin]

I think it would take to long to develop.

Also horses should croak to. If they have miss piggy's arsonistic kin running around then horses should be goners too.

[Spino]

Wow, I thought the request for decimation was silly but this really takes the cake

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (Dead Moroz @ Feb. 05 2004,20:35)]And a few words about horses in Total War. Why do they always die with their masters?
Read this thread: A rider and his horse... (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=19;t=13824). I have no inclination to go over the arguments again.

On the subject of the poll, I am in full agreement with Spino full stop.

[RZST]

aesthetically(spelling??) speaking of course, that would look like "da bombdiggity" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-lost.gif

[RisingSun]

Not really. Might look rather silly, actually.

Also, I'm not so sure this was exactly a common occurence, despite what films like Gladiator and Braveheart may lead you to believe. I mean, if i'm in battle, I'm more concerned in making any kind of lethal stabbing wound than leaving myself totally open to a last counter attack while I try to take a chop at a small target while the enemy is moving around, and I'm surrounded by other bad guys. I'm more concerned with "Kill quickly, move on. Kill quickly, move on." In other words, chopping off the opponent's head is the last of my concerns. Many easier, safer methods are accessible to anybody with enough skill to chop a guys head off.

[RZST]

ya but it looks good :( cutting peoples head off

[Omar Mena]

Where's Vanya when you need him?

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I make mine the words of Lord Spino, Ludens-sama and Duke RisingSun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Enough said... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif

[Catiline]

Complete waste of time adn effort. And you'd only complain the blood didn't spurt properly. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

[Duke of RumpyPumpy]

I would only want it if your could then load those cut off heads onto your catapults to launch at the enemy.

Otherwise it would be kind of pointless.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-behead.gif

[RZST]

awww cmon guys, you know theres that little sadistic person inside of you that just wants to see heads rolling (or being thrown by catapults) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[RisingSun]

Been reading LOTR, have we? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Lazul]

cut... cut off head... yea.... cut.... cut them off.... aah HAHAH CUT THEM OFF.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

ok... im not really psychotic http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Aelwyn]

I would say Yes with option to turn it off. I'm only 22 and have no kids, but how many parents want their kids seeing heads cut off for a few hours a day, practically every day, for at least a year straight? If it were me as a little kid, it would have almost no effect on me, but there are many kids out there that can't stop it from affecting them, if nothing else desensitize them to violence.

I'm all for artistic freedom to make video games however you want...but you've gotta be able to control some things, and having an on/off option is a good way to control this type of exposure to violence without completely denying the kids the RTW experience. Win/Win imo.

[RisingSun]

How do you suggest to stop the kid from just turnin the option back on?

Besides. I don't know what all you yay-sayers are thinking... It would look ridiculous

[Dead Moroz]

Quote[/b] (Ludens @ Feb. 06 2004,15:25)]
Quote[/b] (Dead Moroz @ Feb. 05 2004,20:35)]And a few words about horses in Total War. Why do they always die with their masters?
Read this thread: A rider and his horse... (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=19;t=13824). I have no inclination to go over the arguments again.
Thank you for link, Ludens. I've looked through it and have to agree that it will be too hard to make cavalry dismountable during battle. I didn't think about that idea before. And I don't really care about it. Maybe it could be good feature but if it won't be present in the game I will not be upset.

I just wanted to say that it's strange that when you kill a cavalryman you kill his horse with him. It's really annoying Cavalrymen are not centaurs http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

Horses must stay alive after the death of their masters. But not always. If cavalry attack spearmen (especially phalanx) or if archers (or catapults etc.) fire at cavalry horses must tend to die with their masters. In other cases horses must rather survive.

I'm sure it's possible to do without making serious changes in present Total War engine. When cavalryman is alive it is one graphic object. The death of cavalryman can produce one (if horse die) or two (if horse survive) graphic objects. The survived horse must became an "independent" object on the map acting like flying birds in MTW. I don't mean horses must fly. Of course they have to run or stay somewhere on the map.

[el_slapper]

BS. Head cutting in battle was especially rare. It's tough as hell to land a proper hit on a dodging enemy... it is far tougher to properly cut the head off. Even an excellent hit at the neck, while definitively lethal, would NOT make the head fly as in movies.

So, no. Definitively no. This is war, not a Gladiator's fight. Though if you simulate gladiator's fight, it might be cool. But on the battlefield? Nope.

[Vanya]

GAH

Vanya has a dream... that one day a man can cut off his neigbors head... not just because his neigbor annoyed him, but for the mere sport of it

Vanya has started an outreach program in several inner city slums... These new sessions, offered by Vanya's People's Crusade for the Liberation of Man from the Tyranny of Freedom, teach poverty-stricken youths (aka "yutes") the virtues of cutting the heads off of peeps around them. Naturally, some puritanical parents over here think Vanya is "messing with their head" and seducing them with the dark gospels. But that is pure toe scum. So, now Vanya requires all participants to cut off the heads of their parents before they can graduate and recieve their diplomas; this be kinda important, you see, since the diplomas are made from the facial skin of their own parents This way, the kid can hang the last expression of horror their parents ever made on their walls to relish throughout their lives.

Vanya sez... this brings new meaning to that old parental adage... to not make weird expressions 'cause they might freeze on your face

GAH

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (Dead Moroz @ Feb. 10 2004,14:42)]I just wanted to say that it's strange that when you kill a cavalryman you kill his horse with him. It's really annoying Cavalrymen are not centaurs
Perhaps you should look at it the other way: how could you kill a horse while saving the rider. Because the man the horse is rather far away from you and probably armoured, while the horse is large, unarmoured target with that vulnerable jugular quite close to you: which one would you try to kill? The rider would then experience something alike to falling down 4 feet, while being unable to get into a good falling position, and, upon reaching the ground, getting hit by something the size of a piano. If he isn't killed or incapacitated, he's probably stuck under his horse. Both are effectively out of the battle. The chances of a horse surviving his rider seems to me much slimmer, unless it is cavalry versus cavalry. Of course, I have never been in such a battle, as you probably guessed.

So I think horses without riders would be relatively rare occurrences. It would be an aesthetic improvement, though.

[Barkhorn1x]

Oddly - in TC episodes - when you klll a man, his body disappears but his horse remains.

Barkhorn.

[Kraxis]

Ludens Shame on you You took my point I was royalties for that.

Ludens is completely right. The infantry would most likely go for the big, easy to hit, horse, instead of the small, hard to hit, man in armour. Especially when all you have is a short sword. Only cavalry engagements should in any case produce riderless horses.

[Nowake]

Vanya sez... this brings new meaning to that old parental adage... to not make weird expressions 'cause they might freeze on your face


Nowake knows that you probably couldn't care less, but the hell with it, can't you compile all your posts in one big thread? Nowake would be interested in the collection http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Feb. 12 2004,19:37)]Ludens Shame on you You took my point I was royalties for that.

In the time span of twenty four hours, I have been accused of heartlessness, sadism and plagiary in that order.
I am not being paranoid.

There is a conspiracy behind this.

But I have seen through it.
Oh yes I have seen through it.

:Disappears into the shadows:

[Ludens]

Or perhaps I should just get some sleep.

Kraxis, either you are using an US/UK colloquialism or you are saying I stole your arguments. In the latter case, please let me know to what exactly you are referring, and then I will contact my solicitor and decide whether I will see you in court.

Or perhaps I should get some sleep. I could really do with some sleep.


BTW: congratulations on winning the 'Most helpfull historian' award.

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (Ludens @ Feb. 13 2004,09:05)]BTW: congratulations on winning the 'Most helpfull historian' award.
Ah, but it was a tie... Sinan was there beside me.

[Shigawire]

I thought this thread referred to the cutting of heads in battle, but it seems it's about cutting heads off prisoners.

It's nothing that I am passionate about or in any way prioritize. But I am not against it. The problem, to me, would be to see decapitations of limbs without the blood :)
And there will be no blood in Rome:TW. Even though Dutch of CA said it was an easy thing to implement, and it was only a matter of PG13-ratings. At least it should be an on/off feature. As long as there would be blood, the occasional decapitation of a limb would be natural and realistic, and in no way 'hollywoodized.' I think some of you underestimate the goryness of war. It is not all cuts and bruises. It's guts and intestines, limbs, bone fragments and so on..

Regarding the technical feasibility of headchopping in a crowd-based animation system using motion-capture, as RTW does, there is already one other such 'engine' (well it's not really an engine).
It's called "Mayhem" and it's a script for 3dstudio max' CS (Character Studio).
You can download a PRE-rendered animation using this script from this url:
http://www.adamwatkins.com/mayhem_divx.zip
Filesize: 14mb , requires Divx 5.03

You will see heads chopped off without blood in this animation. Also, the frequency/occurence of headchops is a bit extreme.. but at least you get the idea. The entity-seperation of the limb takes only an infintisimal amount of extra processing-power.