Barbarian Tavern

[Monk]

http://www.totalwar.com/community/images/bartav.jpg

BARBARIAN TAVERN
Drink Drink Drink Life is short The tavern fire is warm There are heroic stories to tell Let everyone hear how great it is to be one of our people A Tavern is the perfect place for everyone to enjoy themselves, and let worries be drowned in ale and mead. Any man who leaves without a smile on his face and an urge to empty his bladder hasn't really been drinking like a true warrior

EFFECTS:
Improves Happiness

Upgrades
A Tavern can be replaced as the settlement grows in size and stature.

[Duke of RumpyPumpy]

I object to the term "Barbarian"

Sure my friends and I don't wear white sheets tied around ourselves, or hang around naked together at public baths. But that does not make us Barbarians

I find this term anti-Teutonic

We must all fight this awful pro-Roman cultural bias

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smash.gif

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (Duke of RumpyPumpy @ Feb. 07 2004,19:44)]I object to the term "Barbarian"

Sure my friends and I don't wear white sheets tied around ourselves, or hang around naked together at public baths. But that does not make us Barbarians

I find this term anti-Teutonic

We must all fight this awful pro-Roman cultural bias

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smash.gif
Yes I fully agree

Barbarians is degrading, call them Native-Germans and it will be perfectly politically correct. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Shahed]

LOL Sounds like the Tav right here. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Wishazu]

should have minus 1 discipline modifier to any troops trained there

[RZST]

mmmmm bar-maids.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-gossip.gif

[Catiline]

I realise there\'s a joke before I risk of sounding like I don't have a sense of humour... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-lost.gif

The Native germans were barbarians. THe Persians were barbarians. The Romans were barbarians. The Macedonians were virtually barbarians depending on how powerful they were. In simple terms the barbarian is one of those who doesn't speak greek. hoi barbaroi were people who said bar bar bar when they spoke. when actors are doing crowd scenes they all say 'rhubarb' ovre and over to make it sound like a conversation, but one you can't understand so as not to detract from however actually has lines.

the Romans had their barbarism down graded, they were allowed to take part in the Olympic games, the only non Helenic nation to do so. I think htere was some spin about their Trojan descent put on it for appearances sake.

[rasoforos]

Quote[/b] (Catiline @ Feb. 08 2004,05:34)]I realise there\'s a joke before I risk of sounding like I don't have a sense of humour... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-lost.gif

The Native germans were barbarians. THe Persians were barbarians. The Romans were barbarians. The Macedonians were virtually barbarians depending on how powerful they were. In simple terms the barbarian is one of those who doesn't speak greek. hoi barbaroi were people who said bar bar bar when they spoke. when actors are doing crowd scenes they all say 'rhubarb' ovre and over to make it sound like a conversation, but one you can't understand so as not to detract from however actually has lines.

the Romans had their barbarism down graded, they were allowed to take part in the Olympic games, the only non Helenic nation to do so. I think htere was some spin about their Trojan descent put on it for appearances sake.
Very well apart from the macedonian fact. The macedonians were a greek tribe , like every other greek they had their own dialect. Some people like Demosthenes , who could not stop dreaming of athenian imperialism , kept calling them barbarians because they lacked the cultural and philosophical level of Athens...but...then Aristotle came and corrected that i think :D

As you said a barbarian is someone who cannot speak greek. As a result not many barbarians exist today ( 25% of the Oxford dictionary is Greek words or derivatives of greek words)...In any case the word 'barbarian' did not have the bad meaning it has today. I think the word became demeaning during the roman , byzantine era.

[Catiline]

Ooops. Obviously wasn't clear enough. The Greekness of the Macedonians tended to be up for debate, but they did tend to be regarded as a bit of a fringe part of the Greek ethnos. Demosthenes could get away with suggesting they weren't Greek and not get laughed out of the agora. I think suggeesting that Aristotle proving anything is rather strong, after all he had buffalos fighting by shitting at each other.

[rasoforos]

Quote[/b] (Catiline @ Feb. 08 2004,08:12)]I think suggeesting that Aristotle proving anything is rather strong, after all he had buffalos fighting by shitting at each other.
The problem with Aristotle is the way many people saw him after the spread of Christianity in Europe. Suddenly philosophers and scientist were considered as wizzards , their scripts destroyed and many of them were killed. The academy was closed down , philosophy was frowned upon. All this created a society that could not perceive the world inany other way than 'absolute truths'. As a result , when some of Aristotle's works managed to be 'acceptable' for study ; the people who studied them tended to blindly accept whatever Aristotle wrote. The main idea that lead to the great scientific achievements during the classical and hellenistic years ( the fact that different people were producing different and conflicting theories about how things worked) was ignored during those years and Aristotle became 'the master'.
If one sees Aristotle this way then he is doing him a great injustice i think , Aristotle did a lot of mistakes , most of his theories are wrong ( although some of his writings are amazing indeed) . However his greatness is derived from his thirst for knowledge , of how things worked , and his effort to widen his horizons. He was a 'multiple scientist' and this is what he should be admired for. If all those people in the middle ages were inspired by him instead of copying every word he said then they would have made leaps in science.

what do you think? :)

What i was trying to say is that Aristotle was a living example of Demosthenes's errors. Even before the hellenistic era the Macedonians were not as uncultured as Demosthenes was trying to make them look.

[Duke of RumpyPumpy]

I simply must protest all these intellectual ruminations.

Side note: What does movie extras saying 'rhubarb' have to do with anything??

Regardless of the etymological study of the word 'barbarian', the singular point I was attempting to convey was the negative and derogative connotation of the word 'barbarian' as used in this context. Anything outside of, and in conflict with, the current regional power is always considered to be a lower form. So whether or not the word used is 'barbarian', savage, primitive, ignorant, or spear-chucker, the effect is the same. Glorifying one culture and debasing another. The historic advantage is always on the side of the group currently holding power.

Now that I have truly killed the humor in this thread; I must recluse myself to my own dark closet as punishment.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[Ludens]

Point taken, Duke. Cultural relativism might be its own refutation, but the opponents of it often forget that 'barbarism' has more to do with cultural prejudice than with 'nomination'.

[RZST]

you guys are no fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/handball.gif

[Kraxis]

Yeah... I think I won't even try another round, it would be like hitting the head against a brick wall. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

[Duke of RumpyPumpy]

This is nothing that a few beers won't fix.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_bow.gif