What do you look for in a governer?

[Sociopsychoactive]

Ok, I usually play the Catholic factions, and I almost always play campaign games, starting in early and usually high or expert difficulty.

From reading through I see alot of people go for peasant or urban militia as their governors, mostly for the low upkeep, but I never bother. Yeah, if I have a peasant or urban militia hanging around AND they have the right stats they get it, but I rarely choose a particular type of unit to give all the titles to.

The difference in upkeep is usually small, especially seen as I start in early and am very expansionist, so lots of titles get given out before the really expensive units are even available, and whats the point in training loads of peasant to give titles to, when most will have crappy stats and mean you have to train even more.

Acumen is good, I've heard that more than three acumen gives a slight drop in loyalty and often leads to bad vices later on, but an overhaul of governors isn't such a bad thing to do when your empire is up and running, and they usually won't appear until late enough that it's not a major issue.

Dread is useful, never underestimate the loyalty boost two points of dread will give you, but again, higher than about three dread will mean a loyalty drop, at least in the short-term, I'm not sure about longterm, but then again, Piety is also not to be disregarded.

If you have lots of none-pious governors then you get very low zeal, and as catholic, crusading nations that makes a big difference, crusades don't just drain of armies present, they actually spawn troops form high-zeal provinces, not just drain them from armies.

So, all in all high stats are all good, a very high piety seems not to give a loyalty drop, and while it can lead to religious-related vices, they are usually very mild, 5% drop in trade and farming for the most part. But there is one more thing I really have to consider in my governors, at least, the ones in border and contested provinces. If you put a reasonable unit, say feudal Sergent's, and they have one or two command (often one natural, one from the title) then they can actually defeat invading units. More than once I have seen an enemy king or heir unit invade on its own in of my inland border provinces when the bulk of my army is engaged elsewhere and re-enforcements would take a while to get there, only for my governor to beat them back and kill the king on the process or at least give him a 'good runner' vice.

All in all, instead of having large border forces at allies borders (and on hard and expert allies often attack without warning) just have good governor units, not necessarily great, but if they invade with anything less than 500 men I only need to retreat and then move in all the local governors and hey presto, the province is safe once more leaving my real armies free to invade at will in retaliation.

Feel free to disagree with me by the way.

Joe

[Ludens]

Does it matter if the governor is not in the province he is supposed to govern?

I have just made the switch from STW to MTW and I'm still a bit overwhelmed by the amount of things you have to take care of. I usually go for the general with the highest acumen when appointing a governor for my high-income provinces but if high acumen has side effects...

[Snowhobbit]

No, it doesn't matter were the governor is at all.

[Kulgan]

I always look at every fresh produced unit's acumen, and check on all my troops after a battle or assasination.
I always take minimum 4 acumen for a governor, unless you're really short of good acumen generals.
Building peasants hardly costs money ( 50 florins? ) , you can just abandon the ones with low acumen and install the others are governors and as garrison troops.
Also I tend to give the titles who give +acumen to peasants with acumen of 4.
When I get a good acumen general , 6 acumen for exmaple I disband the 4 acumen peasant unit and I assign the 6 + 2 acumen general as governor to my best province
And if you are short of good generals, you can give titles who give + command like Ireland to a 1 or 3 star general.

[Sociopsychoactive]

Actually, yes, it does make a difference whether the governer is in the province, but not directly. Taking a governer away short-term has no effect, if there is a lsight change in loyalties it is not a noticable one.

However, you DO get the possibility of 'Absentee landlord' vice if you are absent for a long time. This gives -10 happiness and I think -10% to farming income aswell. I've only got this one a few times, and it's not so major, but still a factor.

Joe

[gaijinalways]

The acumen of a governor makes a big difference in proinces with lots of trade or good farming as each additional point (or star) brings in quite a bit more money (which realy adds up if you're controlling the province for a long period of time). The dread just helps to avoid rebellions, useful in some troublesome provinces such as Scotland (there are others, I just don't remember off hand which ones they are).

[Game Over!!!]

Having an absent governor does effect loyalty in a province. In my experience NOT having the governor in the province will effect loyalty by as much as 15%.

High acumen has never noticeably lowered loyalty before in my campaigns. The only thing that effects loyalty negatively concerning governors is low dread or Vices. Having a governor with high dread, 4 or more skulls, will have a 'soothing' effect on areas with chronic low loyalty ie; Portugal, Livonia, Scotland. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[Sociopsychoactive]

I never noticed an effect on loyalty from the Governor being absent other than the effect of his troop stack and absentee landlords, and yes, high acumen greatly affects income, but gives a short term loyalty drop, which is Worth the income you gain for the acumen.

High dread does actually have a negative effect though, for example I conquered Scotland with the English, and found that with no troops the loyalty was a whopping 0%. I whacked troops in until it raised to 103%, the assigned the title to a person with five acumen (4 natural + hard sums) and four dread (three natural + scant mercy).

The unit wa already in the province, meaning no change in loyalty from moving troops around, but the loyalty dropped straight to 76%. Over 25% drop, that rode back up within the next 5 years or so, so was definitely short term (I hadn't even built anything there so 25% is not just the normal rise) but the immediate effect was nearly disastrous as several factions where just looking for a good revolt to stage their re-emergence in.

Joe

[PseRamesses]

Quote[/b] (Game Over @ Feb. 08 2004,08:15)]Having an absent governor does effect loyalty in a province. In my experience NOT having the governor in the province will effect loyalty by as much as 15%.

High acumen has never noticeably lowered loyalty before in my campaigns. The only thing that effects loyalty negatively concerning governors is low dread or Vices. Having a governor with high dread, 4 or more skulls, will have a 'soothing' effect on areas with chronic low loyalty ie; Portugal, Livonia, Scotland. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
I use govenorns as follows:

1. High dread in rebellious provinces.
2. High piety in provinces where crusades builds.
3. Never under acumen 5 for any govenor.

And I always use peasants for gov´s. Massproducing them, deleting some 70-80% to harvest out the good ones and buildning up a govenor-tank from which I easily cen find a suitable one for a newly conquered province. And I always keep them in their home-provinces which DO effect loyalty.

One exeption though, the kings friend/ shieldbrother is usually my best commander. And I almost never use the king or heirs for battles so his friend does all his dirty deeds.

[Ludens]

So nobody here has problems with disloyal generals? Because that's why the titles were important in Medieval society: to keep the nobility in line.

I also wonder which provinces are 'prone to being rebellious'. I know of Scotland, Portugal and Livonia, but are there any others?

[motorhead]

Quote[/b] ]I also wonder which provinces are 'prone to being rebellious'. I know of Scotland, Portugal and Livonia, but are there any others?

Rebellious ratings (0 = lowest, 4 = highest)
Ireland = 1
Khazar = 1
Lithuania = 3
Livonia = 4
Pomerania = 1
Portugal = 4
Prussia = 2
Scotland = 2
Serbia = 1

=========================================
- i've never noticed high acumen having a negative affect on prov loyalty
- high dread should always improve loyalty. in the case of Sociopsychoactive's loyalty dropping in Scotland, even with a high dread gov, i'd look at province zeal and the gov's piety. I believe high zeal provs (scotland tends to be that way) don't like low piety (4 or less) govs and get a bit upset. Also, could that gov have had a -happy vice like avarice which pumps up acumen at the expense of happiness?
- manual says 'the province will be more loyal if their duke is present'. I've played with this and really haven't noticed any large jump in loyalty, but it probably helps some.

[Mortal Cabbage]

I thought Ireland, Wales and Norway required extra attention as well.

I don't really pay much attention to dread and piety when selecting governors. Acumen accounts for 90% of my choice. When I've got a unit with 4 acumen and 2 piety, I'll choose it before a unit with 4 acumen and no piety, but other that that, I never really bother.

[Sociopsychoactive]

Piety could have played a role, and yeah, Scotland was high in zeal, but 25%? As I said already, it was temporary, and I've only noticed it a few times, but it's there. As to vices, he had hard sums and scant mercy, thats all, he got the scant mercy for executing every last Scot there was though, maybe that was a factor?

And loyalty, well, there are far better ways of improving loyalty, one of the easiest being a magnificent builder for a king, which if you time your build Que's you can get in one or two years, just by building cheap upgrades. Yes, if my empire is looking dodgy and me generals disloyal I'll hand out a title, but bear in mind it the general of the armies loyalty is what you need to change, disloyal troops are fine under a loyal general, and governors tend to stay home and not command armies in the field, those being the ones at risk of starting a civil war.

When it looks like civil war is threatening I just charge my armies into battle with someone else, if they do go rebel then at least you won't lose provinces, just armies, which brings me to a further point. Most titles give one loyalty, quite a few give two but very few give more than that. So, if you give them to disloyal units, they won't rise that much, and will still be risky if civil war is threatening. Last time it happened as the English it was a measly 4 provinces that rebelled, and three that were contested, all of which were dealt with swiftly. I think other nations got 2 of the four now-rebel provinces, but then number of rebelling armies was minor and easily dealt with. The trick to civil wars is knowing when to anticipate them, and re-organising the troops accordingly, if you have two or three heirs or royal blooded generals with large armies and low loyalty, take the army off them, give it to a loyal general and if they rebel then you can kill them easily. The general of the army decides which side it turns to, and new generals are easily placed.

[Eastside Character]

I have some rules for appointing my governors:
- they have to be nobles
- dont have to have high acumen, the lordship may be given as a reward for loyal service http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif
- they cant have too many vices
- they all have to be loyal to my court before i grant them a title
- high dread or piety also helps.

Regards,
EC

[Rising_General]

I try to add a level of realism to It..

For example,if I start out in early and have a unit of urban militia that fought very well through the first 40-60 years I will grant him a title. Usually by then he has been retrained a few times acquiring better armor and weapons and deserves a retirement instead off merely being disbanded or replaced by a better unit now available. yes at times I take a hit to my income, but I like to go for realism in campaign mode

[FetalPig]

Usually acumen is my main concern, although, as people have said, dread can be useful in those rebellious provinces. Generally, I try to choose governors based on how much they can do for me. If I have a really profitable province, I will not settle for 3 acumen (actually I rarely do) normally it takes at least 4 to pique my interest and everything else is icing on the cake.


PS: I try to make units that are at least HALF useful in combat my governors (hence few archer/peasant/UM govs)

[Somebody Else]

I don't usually bother myself with the type of unit - except that if I have say a unit of knights and a unit of archers with equivilent stats, I'll make the archers govern. I don't build units specially to govern - they come out of my standard army (which is more of a defensive force anyway)

The stats I look for are ate least four acumen, at least two dread - no less than four in a rebellious province. Piety I ignore... I'm vaguely atheist (mostly apathetic) so I don't try and make other people religious - besides I'm not into the whole crusading thing - I prefer to expand steadily from my borders, not sending random armies halfway across the map. Plus I'm excommed most of the time anyway... something about the Total War thing that I enjoy... it's me against the world I've only ever had one civil war - so loyalty isn't something I really worry about (and I do play on expert) If a governership gives command stars, I'll try and assign it to a high quality general, preferably with some acumen as well.

C'est tout.

[Ludens]

Thank you Motorhead

[Cebei]

The absentee landlord vice can emerge even if the governor is in his own province. Doh..

[octavian]

the three things i focus on in my governers are, 1.acumen 2.dread and last but not least 3.loyalty, especially on hard (which is what i play)

[Jeff]

Well the things I look for are in this order:

1. Acumen
2. Piety
3. Dread
4. Loyalty

Usually if I have a couple of Govenor candidates that are the same in acumen then I'll take who ever has the best mixture of the other 3 and plug them in. Personally I don't think loyalty matters all that much when your talking 3 shields or higher. Usually I disband anyone who is a 2 or lower anyways.

[Crash]

Quote[/b] (Ludens @ Feb. 08 2004,11:11)]So nobody here has problems with disloyal generals? Because that's why the titles were important in Medieval society: to keep the nobility in line.

I'd rather marry a princess to a low loyalty general that has a high command rating. That way you can let that general go where ever you need him, and give the governorship to high acumen/low command generals.

[Suppiluliumas]

1. Nobility is a must (members of the royal family are prefered).
2. Acumen (especially for high income provinces).
3. Piety or Dread (both would be nice).
4. Loyalty. I find that the title itself, and a marriage if necesary, will usually do the trick.

*. Command is obviously the main criterion for military titles.

[Kampfen]

Mostly, it depends upon the province. If it's Flanders I want the highest accumen I can get; Scotland or other province with a high-rebellion probability, dread; A backwater low yield province with high zeal, I go for piety and find I can keep the province very happy (200%) with just one unit of 200 peasants.

BTW, I was under the impression that accumen only affected the agricultural output of the province and not the trade income. I got this by stripping titles from a high accumen unit in governance and giving the title to a lower accumen unit, only ag output dropped. So the question is, Does accumen affect trade income?

Thanks.

[katank]

I think that acumen also effects trade although i'm not that sure. A good governor of venice or const. rockets the income and if only with agricultural change I doubt it would be possible.

Also, I tend to have my governors out of the province and fighting. Moving them around seem to reduce bad vices and absentee landlord is really rare.

I would also often reward generals for loyal service and give them a province.

Sometimes I would give the province to the general that won it if his stats are tolerable as long as it's not a cash cow province in which case i'm picky.

Also, don't worry about loyalty. Just keep your high ranking general that are disloyal by himself. WHen you do battle, he commands anyhow but he doesn't rebel with a stack.

[Kampfen]

I downloaded a list that rates Constaninople as the highest Agricultural province and Venice is pretty high up. I know one thing, accumen did affect Ag output and didn't immediately affect trade income, as I described. The trade figures changed immediately with tax rate changes as well as ag-output but accumen had no effect on trade. This was before I got v1.1 and then VI so maybe they fixed that.