The Netherlands

[The Wizard]

Does anyone have any information regarding factions, armies, equipment and way of warfare of the Netherlands in the Medieval period?

Dutch history has never interested me much past our "Gouden Eeuw", and the Middle Ages. However, I know virtually nothing about how warfare and political divisions was in the Middle Ages in the Netherlands (then seen as what are now the nations of Holland, Belgium and Luxemburg), save for factions. Anyone here that does know, or has a good site for it? I'd like to know more about the medieval Netherlands (such as the many wars between the bishop of Utrecht and the Duke of Gelre).

Thanks in advance http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif



~Wiz

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

Try getting trial by fire and battle by jonathan sumption which gives alot of info on the Dutch and Flemish during the 13th and 14th centuries.

[Aurelian]

I'd look for a copy of the following:

"The Art of Warfare in Western Europe in the Middle Ages: From the eighth century to 1340
JF Verbruggen
This is a fantastic study of medieval warfare. Originally written in 1954, the newer editions have been revised and updated, but it still holds up as one of the best explorations of medieval tactics and military organization. This was one of the first books to look at medieval warfare as something other then a bunch of loons charging each other. Details numerous individual battles and explains how units operated tactically. Also interesting because the author is Flemish and uses sources and examples that will probably be unfamiliar to most non-Flemish readers."

I posted that to a topic in the Entrance Hall (on medieval and ancient warfare books) a while back. It covers more than just medieval warfare in the Netherlands specifically, but it does contain some good material on the subject. A great book.

I think the medieval historian Froissart covers some of the action in Flanders during the 100 Years War.

Another one I posted a while back was:

"Infantry Warfare in the Early Fourteenth Century
Kelly Devries
Another recent book, Devries takes an in-depth look at the battles of the early fourteenth century. Devries thesis is that this was the period when infantry warfare became dominant again on medieval battlefields. Devries cites the experiences of the British longbow/dismounted men-at-arms system, the Swiss halberdiers, the Flemish pikemen, and the Catalan almughavars. Another book for wargamers with an emphasis on individual battles."

Again this covers more than the Netherlands, but if you can get it from the library or something it's a great guide to medieval warfare with some coverage of battles in Flanders.

Any books on Medieval Burgundy would contain information on the Netherlands. Osprey has an "Armies of Medieval Burgundy 1364-1477" that is alright.

Hope that helps http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Auxilia]

You might try Armies of Feudal Europe Volume 1 by Ian Heath, published by the Wargames Research Group. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[ShadeFlanders]

I'd second Verbruggen.
Sadly for the dutch most of the books about medieval history of the low countries concern Flanders and to a lesser extent Brabant (late middle ages). At that time the northern provinces of the low countries were pretty much "the backwater" of the low countries, whose politics revolved around the count of Flanders (eg in 1302 the knights of Brabant and Holland fought under the french flag while Zeeland, with John of Renesse, fought with the Flemish).
On the same note there isn't a decent book about Flanders in the late 17th- entire 18th - 19th century because there isn't much to tell besides extreme poverty and the occasional peasant's revolt which was then brutally beaten down by the Spanish/French/Austrians.

[Plantagenet]

The armies of the Duchy of Lower Lotharingia (including the Netherlands) were generally similar to those in the rest of Germany. The knightly heavy cavalry was the same. The 3 most important differences were due to the fact that Lotharingia was much more urbanized than the rest of Germany. So while the cavalry was still supplied by the local nobility, the infantry was drawn mainly from the towns:

-Infantry in the other German Duchies were primarily swordsmen (milites pedites, "foot knights"); but those in Lotharingia were spearmen/pikemen.
-Missile troops in the other German Duchies were usually archers, whereas those from Lotharingia were crossbowmen.
-Naval warfare was much more common than in Germany proper.

The capital of the Duchy was Aachen. The Bishoprics were all suffragans of Cologne. The main "factions" were:

Duke of Lower Lotharingia
-Count of Brabant
-Count of Hainaut
-Count of Luxemburg
-Count of Holland, Zeeland, & Friesland
-Count of Guelders

Archbishop of Cologne
-Bishop of Liege
-Bishop of Utrecht
-Bishop of Cambrai

Technically, the Counts were vassals of the Duke. But even more than in the other Duchies, the Counts were tough to control because trade and a booming population made them wealthier and able to field larger numbers than their German counterparts. The Counts of Holland were especially troublesome, and generally refused to recognize the Duke as overlord.

[ShadesWolf]

The only thing I can add to this is do a little research on the EARLY partt of the 100 years War between France and England.

The first few years contained a lot of conflicts on the Flemish/ French borders and the English allies included nations of the Low countries. This might help in your quest for info....

If you take a look at one of my web pages on the 100 years war it gives you a little idea....

Battel of ST Omer 1340 (http://www.100yearswar.co.uk/stomer1340.htm)

[Plantagenet]

Quote[/b] (ShadesWolf @ Feb. 10 2004,01:25)]The only thing I can add to this is do a little research on the EARLY partt of the 100 years War between France and England.

The first few years contained a lot of conflicts on the Flemish/ French borders and the English allies included nations of the Low countries. This might help in your quest for info....

If you take a look at one of my web pages on the 100 years war it gives you a little idea....

Battel of ST Omer 1340 (http://www.100yearswar.co.uk/stomer1340.htm)
Wow. Great website http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif I like how you've broken it down into chronological sections. Graphics are very impressive too. Excellent work.

I've got that Atlas of Medieval Warfare that some of your campaign maps are from, but I've used it so much its starting to disintegrate. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[The Wizard]

Thanks for all the information people, it's greatly appreciated http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thumbsup.gif



~Wiz

[ShadesWolf]

If you like that one Plantagenet then also take a look at The Times - Mapping History - Medieval World by Rosamond Mckitterick.

It is a very good book with some great general info in it. ISBN.0-00-712710-3

[Plantagenet]

Quote[/b] (ShadesWolf @ Feb. 10 2004,12:48)]If you like that one Plantagenet then also take a look at The Times - Mapping History - Medieval World by Rosamond Mckitterick.

It is a very good book with some great general info in it. ISBN.0-00-712710-3
I will. Thanks for the tip.

And again, really nice site. I'm gonna go back and read the whole thing when I get home from work tonight... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Mithrandir]

Well there's a childrens book, "van nul tot nu" ,not really childrensbook, but it's in a cartoon style, very fun to read, which provides a very clear overview of the history of the Netherlands. Very enjoyable try to find it next time you're in the library/bookshop http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[Mithrandir]

http://www.lambiek.net/artists/loerakker_co/loerakker_vannultotnu2.jpg http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[The Wizard]

I got those, Mith... they're very funny http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Still it mentions the medieval history of the Netherlands quite briefly (logical since it wasn't really a very important period in Dutch history). But still great http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif



~Wiz

[Mithrandir]

I love how there are famous charactours like Kuifje (Tin Tin),suske&Wiske etc. all over the books http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif