I'm in debt...

[stimozi]

I'm over 1.5 million florins in debt. No one wants to ally with me. I have huge navy. Large army. Lots of enemies though. What do I do?

Thanks.

[kawligia]

Start over. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif

Next time make sure to build some ports and merchants in provences with 2 or more tradable goods, and improve farmland in wealthier areas, that should keep you out of the red.

[stimozi]

Meh, I was over 150,000 florins before the Turks invaded eastern Europe...

I'm france and I roleplay my king as a peacekeeper, and when the turks started owning the entire world I had to step in. I crushed their armies and retreated, but no one wants to make peace with me again. No one. When I declare war, all merchant trading ended. -30k florins a year.

Is it possible to even survive long big wars without getting economy owned :(

[kawligia]

Yes, make sure you rule the seas.

[Basileus]

Besides ruling the seas try to have a high income with depending so much on trade, trade can fool you into building alot of big armies which you can keep with out the trade..so be careful pump up your farms early and balance your armies keep what you can dont over do it especialy when you have alot of cash in your coffins.

[kiwitt]

It would appear you got most of your income from trade.
If you are going to use trade as a major source of income, be prepared to rule the waves and control every sea square, otherwise you will be blockaded.

These steps may help you out of the hole.

1) Review every province.
2) Destroy any building not required for the units you would like to build in that province. Keep the castle/keep etc. Try not to build every unit in every province. It is better to have specialist provinces.

NOTE: I prefer to have a core group of provinces, simlilar to (MedMod IV) where I produce my main units. Most conquered provinces are used for trade and revenue only and some minimal defences.

3) Disband all Mercenary troops. one with a *bomb* They cost way to much.
4) Disband any troops outdated or no longer required.

5) Check your revenue Icon and see that it becomes positive. If not you need to disband more units.

[Thoros of Myr]

Quote[/b] (Basileus @ Feb. 08 2004,15:21)]...when you have alot of cash in your coffins.
Heheh, I think you mean coffers...unless your a vampire http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Basileus]

Quote[/b] (Thoros of Myr @ Feb. 08 2004,22:39)]
Quote[/b] (Basileus @ Feb. 08 2004,15:21)]...when you have alot of cash in your coffins.
Heheh, I think you mean coffers...unless your a vampire http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
muhehe http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-devilish.gif

your right i meant coffers http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif need to drink my coffe heh

[Brutal DLX]

Reduce your army in an honourable way by letting them do their job. I don't think it is wise to disband them because your are 1.5 million in debt already, you would need approx. 100 turns to get out of that, and that's a favourable estimation. So start conquering to win the game.
Either this, or give up.

[Ragss]

i have the biggest army, most wealth per turn, and i have no navy...its almost 1200ad and the ony ship i built accidentally put me at war with italy...I only have about 3 merchants too and i have all of western europe(im at the top of italy all the way to the danes, and down to the argonese.

My point being, I dont have a navy and I have very few merchants, yet im rich. I just took over about 3 provs in one turn when my florin encome was below ~500.

[vonNichts]

stimozi:


Quote[/b] ]Is it possible to even survive long big wars without getting economy owned :(

Well, the medieval kings were actually in constant financial crises, precisely because of the wars they had to wage for their survival. They invented many ways to solve their short-term dilemas, mostly were very damaging in the long-term, such as creating monopolies and selling them. This wasn't very helpful for economic growth. Also, some kings made spectacular bankrupts, completely ruining the bankers and financial markets of their time.

However, the medieval era was an era of steady economic growth, and increasing economic sophistication. It was basically driven by the increasing population and population density. While this decreased the living standard of the farmers, since land became more and more scarce and improductive per capita, it also made it cheaper to recruite labour for industrial manufacture. The local autarki of the early period had beofre the renaisance been replaced by a specialized industries which imported from/exported to markets all across Europe. Abstract inventions for risk sharing, such as insurances, companies and bonds had been established.

While other parts of the world had been earlier with many technical invensions, Europe during the medieval era took the important step to MAKE USE of such inventions by developing constructive sociatal institutions: the basic elements of a market economy.

See North: The rise of the west (uncertain of English title) and many other books about institutional economic history for interesting insights into why we are where we are, and why Europe has gotten the power to shape the modern world.

[o_loompah_the_delayer]

I would suggest restart, but how on earth did you manage to get 1.5 million in debt??? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif Once you go into negative fl you cant build anymore I think, so the only expenditure you have uis troop maintenance - kill them of if you get to -5,000 and falling

[Doug-Thompson]

Quote[/b] (stimozi @ Feb. 08 2004,21:32)]I'm over 1.5 million florins in debt. No one wants to ally with me. I have huge navy. Large army. Lots of enemies though. What do I do?

Thanks.
President Bush, I for one am honored to learn that you are a MTW player.

Why don't you cut taxes?

[Nelson]

Quote[/b] (Doug-Thompson @ Feb. 09 2004,15:36)]
Quote[/b] (stimozi @ Feb. 08 2004,21:32)]I'm over 1.5 million florins in debt. No one wants to ally with me. I have huge navy. Large army. Lots of enemies though. What do I do?

Thanks.
President Bush, I for one am honored to learn that you are a MTW player.

Why don't you cut taxes?
LMAO

[Suppiluliumas]

That's assinine. The US has a very small military in comparison to its size.

[Sociopsychoactive]

Quote[/b] (Doug-Thompson @ Feb. 09 2004,14:36)]
Quote[/b] (stimozi @ Feb. 08 2004,21:32)]I'm over 1.5 million florins in debt. No one wants to ally with me. I have huge navy. Large army. Lots of enemies though. What do I do?

Thanks.
President Bush, I for one am honored to learn that you are a MTW player.

Why don't you cut taxes?
ROFL

As to the debt, you HAVE to get a positive income, never going to leave debt while still in the red, but instead of disbanding ALL your troops, you could disband the more expensive ones and maybe, just maybe go conquer a rich nation, like germany. That would earn you lotd of cash and use up your armies. If the backlash hurts don't be afraid to lose a few provinces, if you are a little to big then the wordl will hate you because your bigger than them,. and not ally. Trade is fickle like that.

[stimozi]

Thanks for the comments and suggestions guys. LOL bush...

I do have another question... can I still trade with my enemies/nonallied nations if they have no ships to fight back? So I could have a huge navy and force them to trade...

I'm gonna have to start all over. I tried to waste my troops by raiding various provinces, razing everything to the ground, and moving on... causing chaos everywhere :o

[kiwitt]

You can not trade through blockaded (i.e. enemy controlled hexes) and only with non enemy factions. You must have either neutral or allied ships in the sea lanes you have your ships in.

Click on the economy parchment and you can see the trade between provinces. Also, if a province has the same goods for export you will not be trading with them either.

[vonNichts]

Remember that the units you disband will be available as mercenaries to your richer enemies An alternative to disbanding, is to use the most dangerous (and expensive) units very aggressively and wastefully on the battlefields.

[Oberstein]

Quote (Doug-Thompson @ Feb. 09 2004,14:36)
Quote (stimozi @ Feb. 08 2004,21:32)
I'm over 1.5 million florins in debt. No one wants to ally with me. I have huge navy. Large army. Lots of enemies though. What do I do?

Thanks.

President Bush, I for one am honored to learn that you are a MTW player.

Why don't you cut taxes?

Oh come on, it's just a joke...rather good one at that. ^^

[Gregoshi]

Quote[/b] (Oberstein @ Feb. 10 2004,11:18)]Oh come on, it's just a joke...rather good one at that. ^^
I'll second that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-laugh4.gif

[*Ringo*]

Quote[/b] (stimozi @ Feb. 09 2004,23:06)]I do have another question... can I still trade with my enemies/nonallied nations if they have no ships to fight back? So I could have a huge navy and force them to trade...

As well as the other suggestions you should also bear in mind; you are only at war with a faction if you have physical contact with their provinces (assuming your not crusading to their provinces, etc). Thus if you want to start trading with a nation that you are at war with, ensure that you withdraw your ships from their coastal waters, (and of course have NO contact with their faction over land or have ships in the same sea region) Then advance one year. If you had no contact with that faction, for a year, then the war will be forgotten and you can move your ships in next turn to start trading again

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif

This gives you more time to move in larger fleets to their shipyard provinces, so if they do 'kick off' again you can quickly disable their facilities Useful when the AI starts a stupid trade war http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Enjoy,

*Ringo*

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]
Quote[/b] ](Oberstein @ Feb. 10 2004,11:18)
Oh come on, it's just a joke...rather good one at that. ^^

I'll second that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-laugh4.gif


Me too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-laugh4.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-laugh4.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-laugh4.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[makkyo]

And if all else fails... ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK
If you die or whatnot, at least you went out with a bang. (think of the lord of the rings: Two Towers when Theodin and Aragon decise to ride out of Relms deep and die gloriously in battle)
GGGAAAHHH
Or you can pull a braveheart http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif