Weapon upgrade & missile units

[hoom]

I was playing against my friend the other day & discussing tactics, build queues, army makeups etc.

It came to our attention that neither of us knew whether weapon upgrades on missile units actually affect the damage done by the missile, the melee, or both?

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-help.gif

[Brutal DLX]

I believe it applies to melee only, but valour does increase the accuracy of missile troops. I suppose our king of stats Yuuki can clarify.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[lancer63]

The small sword on the lower left side of an archer unit's icon may not mean much when it's guarded by heavy inf., chiv. sergeants, and royal bodyguards. But when the same guys are left on their own and facing pursuing saharan cav., hobies or militia sergeants, then the weapons upgrade really becomes a lifesaver. I upgrade the weapons of all my units. I've lost 4v LBs for not having provided them with the means to defend themselves just for being a miser with a few florins.
I say, if you can upgrade all you can afford.

[Puzz3D]

The weapon upgrade appears to only affect melee as BrutalDLX says. Armor upgrades on ranged units make more sense to me because you get protection from enemy arrows and improved defense in combat. Since dead men take their ammo with them, the armor protection means you shoot more ammo in a shootout if more of your men survive enemy volleys, and the increased defense in melee means your unit will maintain it's morale level better since casualty rate will be less.

[*Ringo*]

Missile units do get an attack bonus for weapons upgrades. You can see by calling up the troop stats (F1) in battle. Whether this translates to an advantage or not i couldn't say. It depends if melee and missile attacks are calculated differently i suppose http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

Anyone know the specifics? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

*Ringo*

[Kraxis]

As Yuuki said, weaponupgrades do not affect missilefire. Valour does, but only slightly, so little in fact that it is not noticeable in Custom Game with a difference of V0 and V4.

I'm with him on the armour. I would rather have my archers survive a rangeduel and be good at surviving a melee, often their morale is rather bad so losses doesn't go good for them, and in that case it makes little point for them to be able to kill better in melee.
This is also the reason I love Turcoman Foot, they are lovely in the archery aspect and defense.

[Brutal DLX]

Quote[/b] (Kraxis @ Feb. 12 2004,01:23)]This is also the reason I love Turcoman Foot, they are lovely in the archery aspect and defense.
Yeah Kraxis, good observation I used to have turcoman foot as sort of a Pav Xbow replacement in MP battles. With armour upgrade they can last surprisingly long for such a cheap unit..

[Kraxis]

Oh, I almost always use them as Turk in MP. But they are hardly cheap. 300 florins is a lot considering the cost of crossbows.
Anyway I once got them to defeat Pavise Arbs, by a good use of rotation and good targeting. But it must be said that my opponent played into my game by insisting to duke it out in a ranged duel. Inthe end my JI could advance with little to fear from the Pavs to pelt his knights and other critical troops. I lost ultimately, but that was still my shining moment as a Turk.

[Brutal DLX]

Yeah, but cheap in comparison to other hybrid units. Also I had the impression that they can hold longer against a cav raid than xbows, giving you more time to counter.

You should see Kanuni's Turk Juggernaught, it was quite hard to counter at 15k, I think.

[Kraxis]

They do last longer than crossbows in a melee, but mostly because they have a small shield, otherwise their stats are the same.
I do not think of them as hybrids, but as archers... almost solely. I have used them to soak up charges, but that is basically it, and of course act as a last reinforcement.

[Aelwyn]

Yeah Turco Foot don't have very good attack, so I wouldn't use them as hybrids, just as archers, like Kraxis said. They can hold for a while if their morale stays up though due to their higher defense.

[hoom]

Thanks guys.
My recollection was that the weapon upgrade doesn't affect the missile, but then I'd never let it affect my gameplay...
So now I can leave the weapon upgrade off without loosing sleep :)

[Chaffers]

Deciding what to build in your iron-equipped cities is a difficult one, but personally I upgrade my ranged units with armour and weapons bonusses.

The weapons bonus dosn't effect their arrow fire but does make some of the units very respectable in a melee. Give your arbs a few weapons bonusses and a bit of morale and set them loose towards the end of a battle. At Citadel level you can get them as 1/2/6/6/2 which is pretty damned useful in someone's rather tired flank, especially when theres still 120 of them against 30 or 40 opposition.

Adding +4 +4 to Gothic Knights does sod all to their stats, whereas doing the same to humble HA's gives them another string to their bow and turns them into incredibly useful fast cavalry. The HAs will gain valour much faster than the Gothics in the first place, but with weapons bonusses they fly up. I regularly produce 4 and 5 valour upgraded mounted Xbows or HAs even on expert, which, according to berzerkers comparison tool are the equal of 0 valour Gothics in melee Other than bodyguard units I recall very few elite units that have gone above 4 in any numbers.