View Full Version : How much does influence affect heir stats?
I've noticed influence tied to the stats of heirs for a long time but I played Hungary on VI and it seems more pronounced. I get much better heirs the higher my influence rating is.
I'm just wondering how tied it is. When I started, my heirs, as Hungary had around 1-4 stars. With my influence around 6-8, they usually get 4-7 and much better acumen and other stats. I think it's also related to the stats of the current king, but influence seems a more reliable predictor in my current game.
heh, ever wonder why byzantine emperors get those uber heirs?.
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influence.
in all my games, the higher the influence the better the heirs.
As best I can tell the Byzantine's get killer heirs not because of influence, but because they have an excellent emperor to start out from.
I can tell you this - heir stats are determined by the status of the current king at the beginning of the year the heir comes of age. For example, as the spanish the first king has skilled field defender, which gives him a +2 when he's in the field in his own territories. I save the game before my prince comes of age, and leave him in his out province. The prince is born with command of 7, equal to the king with his +2. If I reload, then move the king into the castle where he doesn't get the field defender bonus, the prince is born with a 5 in command.
Kristaps
02-11-2004, 04:59
I have noticed that heir stats also appear to be affected by the king's command rating independently from influence. I once had a Danish king whom I had trained up to 9 stars killing Livonian rebels... His influence was still rather low, but the heirs all came out with 6 and more stars.
In another campaign (again Danish), I noticed that if the 9 command (not influence) star king would be left off the battlefield for a few years before an heir matures, the youngling would come out quite a whimp... It seems the TW kings bring their heirs with them to the battlefield even if they are under-age :)
P.S. I do not know if this is real or just a coincidence...
I'm pretty sure the 9 thing isn't about the battlefield, but rather the 10-command 'feauture'. Apparently, heirs can be born with what should be 10 command, but that instantly drops them to zero.
motorhead
02-11-2004, 06:42
See this thread (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=12853) which discusses heirs, influence and command. About 3/4 down the page is a comment from a CA dev. Despite what he says, i still believe that 9-star rulers can get wraparound children (0-star princes).
Ironside
02-11-2004, 11:21
Could be the case.
Yesterday when I played a campaign for the Russians my kings influence went insane. My 54 years old king with maginficent builder, steward and exellent stats (3 piety, 8 dread, 8 command, 4 accuman) and the biggest empire on the map had 1 influence 1373. 1374 he got 3 influence without me doing anything, 1375 he got 7 and 1376 he got 9. I have no idea what caused that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif . I got screenies of this but I don't know how to upload them.
But to be back on topic, one of my sons matured 1374 and he was the worst son I had yet in this campaign. He got 1 piety, 6 dread, 5 command, 1 accuman.
He's older brothers got slightly better stats than thier father and his younger brother that matured when my kings influence was maxed got better stats despite the fact that he had 0 stars and pride.
But I have gotten HEAVY degeneration even on sons wich had a father with decent (5) influence.
A tip, the game uses premade stats that changes every time the king gains or losses some stats (probably includes influence), or win or loses a battle. The V&V are randomly made.
Citera[/b] ]Despite what he says, i still believe that 9-star rulers can get wraparound children (0-star princes).
Piety has something simular but I don't know at witch number it changes (think it's bigger than 10 though). Try launching several jihads (like 10) and your kings new peity can go from 6 to 1 or something simular.
Brutal DLX
02-12-2004, 10:01
I think all these stats are single digits only, and wraparound happens if you exceed 9.
So I suppose there's a normal fluctuation of heir stats around the current king's stats as median, which can produce bad results as in your example. Let's assume an heir will have a command rating anywhere around +/- 3 of his father's rank, thus, you could get lucky with a 5 star king and get a 7 or 8 star son, but if the same increase happens to an 8 star king, he might get an 8+2=0 or 8+3=1 star heir, which, well, sucks.
Ironside
02-12-2004, 16:32
Citera[/b] (Brutal DLX @ Feb. 12 2004,03:01)]I think all these stats are single digits only, and wraparound happens if you exceed 9.
So I suppose there's a normal fluctuation of heir stats around the current king's stats as median, which can produce bad results as in your example. Let's assume an heir will have a command rating anywhere around +/- 3 of his father's rank, thus, you could get lucky with a 5 star king and get a 7 or 8 star son, but if the same increase happens to an 8 star king, he might get an 8+2=0 or 8+3=1 star heir, which, well, sucks.
Could explain my veird influence experience, but I think it would happen more often in that case. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif
I can't remember that I've ever gotten a 1 star general by a 8-9 star king. 0 stars happens often though.
Kristaps
02-12-2004, 17:55
Quote[/b] (Phatose @ Feb. 10 2004,22:25)]I'm pretty sure the 9 thing isn't about the battlefield, but rather the 10-command 'feauture'. Apparently, heirs can be born with what should be 10 command, but that instantly drops them to zero.
Mmm. I'm kinda with the developers on this one :) There is no reason why a high-star general should have a high-star son in real life either. Rather the opposite. The developers say, that it is 'likely', that a high-star, high influcence king gets high quality heirs, but this is not assured... Meaning: the likelihood of high star heirs goes up as the king's influence rises. Since it is just likelihood - the king might as well get a whimp for a son... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
Better said, he will be: a perverted, thinking that he was made pregnant by an elephant and won't have kids untill 2 years before his death
Civil war is coming.
Basileus
02-12-2004, 18:39
well if you get a pervert son you know what to do http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-whip.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-devilish.gif
motorhead
02-12-2004, 19:58
Quote[/b] (Kristaps @ Feb. 12 2004,11:55)]Mmm. I'm kinda with the developers on this one :) There is no reason why a high-star general should have a high-star son in real life either. Rather the opposite. The developers say, that it is 'likely', that a high-star, high influcence king gets high quality heirs, but this is not assured... Meaning: the likelihood of high star heirs goes up as the king's influence rises. Since it is just likelihood - the king might as well get a whip for a son... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
I've got no problem with princes not being exact carbon copies of their father. Sometimes you get a prince who is signifcantly better than his father. But, a ruler with command 6-7 will rarely, if ever, get a 0-command son. A 9-command ruler seems to get those wraparound zero princes much more frequently.
Kristaps
02-12-2004, 21:47
Quote[/b] (motorhead @ Feb. 12 2004,12:58)]I've got no problem with princes not being exact carbon copies of their father. Sometimes you get a prince who is signifcantly better than his father. But, a ruler with command 6-7 will rarely, if ever, get a 0-command son. A 9-command ruler seems to get those wraparound zero princes much more frequently.
actually, i've got zero command heirs with all kinds of kings being in power :) also, there are cases, when the power gets turned over to a brother, while the children of the previous king are still 'in the pipeline' (not mature enough). in that case, the first bunch of heirs the new king will get, will be sons of the previous king rather than the current one. not sure if there are special arrangements (as set by the programmers) for this contingency.
Ironside
02-12-2004, 22:27
Citera[/b] (Kristaps @ Feb. 12 2004,10:55)]
Citera[/b] (Phatose @ Feb. 10 2004,22:25)]I'm pretty sure the 9 thing isn't about the battlefield, but rather the 10-command 'feauture'. Apparently, heirs can be born with what should be 10 command, but that instantly drops them to zero.
Mmm. I'm kinda with the developers on this one :) There is no reason why a high-star general should have a high-star son in real life either. Rather the opposite. The developers say, that it is 'likely', that a high-star, high influcence king gets high quality heirs, but this is not assured... Meaning: the likelihood of high star heirs goes up as the king's influence rises. Since it is just likelihood - the king might as well get a whimp for a son... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
Those lousy sons always have a drop of 2-3 in all stats. Those 0-star sons got atleast the same stats as the king or even better. They are often among the best 0-star governors I've got.
In one game as the English I had six sons to a 9-star king with all other stats over 7, five sons had zero command sons with all other stats above seven. The last was 9-star with all other stats above 7.
Citera[/b] ]actually, i've got zero command heirs with all kinds of kings being in power :) also, there are cases when the power gets turned over to a brother while the children of the previous king are still 'in the pipeline' (not mature enough). in that case, the first bunch of heirs the new king will get will be sons of the previous king rather than the current one. not sure if there are special arrangements (as set by the programmers) for this contingency.
The heirs stats are always affected by the king, even if it's his brother.
I must add that I have only suffered the 0 star effect af rank 9 or 8. Never lower. Also, in all other respects the heir is similar to the king, all but Command. Even his V&Vs are similar. I find it funny that my rank 9 king who is Mighty Warrior and had Secret Pride with high Piety, Dread and Acumen gets an heir with the same V&Vs and basically the same stats, but at rank 0.
Lousy heirs come from lousy kings as they inherit basically everything. That is my interpretation.
Just as a correction to somebody above, the stats of heirs are generated at the start of the year before they mature. If an heir will mature, for example, in 1120, their stats are determined before your turn in year 1119. You can save the game in 1119 and keep loading but the prince's stats will be the same. You have to load to 1118 and change some of your moves before the prince's stats will change. Apparently, the random seeding for the prince's stats are based somewhat on what is going on in the strategy portion of the game.
From my observation, the stats of heirs are based somewhat on the stats of the current king. The influence of the king influences the randomness of the stats. The higher the influence of the king, the more likely the heir will receive equal or better stats.
I've seen the 0-command heir bug. It has only happened when my king has either 1,2,8 or 9 command. I think there's a bug with heirs having 10 and wrapping around.
In summary, the stats of heirs are determined by the stats and influence of the current king when they are 14 years old. How they are weighted, I have no idea.
Just a correction, I have experienced rank 0 heirs when my kings have been low in rank as well... Just so that nobody goes flying over that.
When i play as English my kings allways seem to have about 9 or 10 dread and i pretty much allways get good heirs aswell
Quote[/b] (andrewt @ Feb. 13 2004,03:21)]Just as a correction to somebody above, the stats of heirs are generated at the start of the year before they mature. If an heir will mature, for example, in 1120, their stats are determined before your turn in year 1119. You can save the game in 1119 and keep loading but the prince's stats will be the same. You have to load to 1118 and change some of your moves before the prince's stats will change. Apparently, the random seeding for the prince's stats are based somewhat on what is going on in the strategy portion of the game.
From my observation, the stats of heirs are based somewhat on the stats of the current king. The influence of the king influences the randomness of the stats. The higher the influence of the king, the more likely the heir will receive equal or better stats.
I've seen the 0-command heir bug. It has only happened when my king has either 1,2,8 or 9 command. I think there's a bug with heirs having 10 and wrapping around.
In summary, the stats of heirs are determined by the stats and influence of the current king when they are 14 years old. How they are weighted, I have no idea.
That's odd. When I was running my own tests, I save it the year before he came of age, and still got different heir stats. He had the same name and vices - but his command stat changed with the Kings, as per the kings Virtues.
Perhaps the heirs V&V and stat alterations are determined in 1118, but the stats used are the kings stats when you hit end in 1119? For example, the heir may be determined in 1118 to be King+1 command, King-1 acumen, King+1 piety, with a closet gay vice. But when he matures in 1120, the base stats are the kings end of turn 1119 stats, adjusted.
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