Question 1 - You and SP Aragon Campaign

[ShadesWolf]

I thought I would do a couple of polls to see how those of you who play Aragon do it.

This is my first campaign, and so far Im doing quite well...


So please let me know what your first strategy in the campaign usually is

[Ironside]

I take the French province to the north first (Tuscany?). You'll get neutral to the French the turn after.

Edit:

Citera[/b] ]Toulouse I knew it began with a T. Doh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif

[Brutal DLX]

Usually invade Navarre, then try to bribe or take Valencia. Then tech up a little and look for opportunities to the North or South.

[Basileus]

I invade Navarre then on the 3/4th round i bribe Valencia 80% of the times gets accepted, then i use El Cid and go after Toulouse then i go after Catsile all this in 10 turns..after that i just build up a navy and my provinces while keeping a good army and slowly expanding south not before i let the Almos build up a little though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[fruitfly]

I prefer bribing Navarre first as that makes it easier to maintain loyalty there thanks to the extra troops. Getting in there quickly also stops the Spanish from expanding northwards, which is a definite bonus.

After that I'll wait 3-4 years while I build up a bit of an army and get some funds together, then bribe El Cid assuming the Spanish/Almos haven't killed him by then.

Then it's straight off to Toulouse to kill the French there as you'll end up automatically neutral with them provided that they haven't taken Anjou of the English by that point. A princess/emissary is useful for checking that out beforehand.

Once I've got those four provinces secured, my next step generally depends on who's at war with who, since it pays to be an opportunist early on as the Aragonese and double-team whichever of your neighbours is being beaten up on. It tends to be best to crusade against the Almos though, since you get stacks of free troops to do it with (mmm... Santiagos...) and if Valencia is your only border with them at the time you're in a very secure defensive position.

[AggonyDuck]

Well I tend to start by bribing El Cid and get Valencia.
Definately worth it.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif
Then I invade Navarre and start building up my army.
Then when the Spanish and Almos start fighting I'll invade Castile and Leon quickly and try to maintain peace with Almos so I can consolidate my new positions..
When I'm finished consolidating I push the Almos back to Morocco, which shouldn't be that tricky.. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

After the Iberian peninsular is mine I tend to consolidate again and build up my economy and trade...Then when I get bored I go for Aquitane and Toulouse or go for the Levant.. :)

[Chubb]

I take Navarre, then Toulose. Then I build up a large army and try to take either Castille or Valencia. If you take your chances, play aggresively in the first few years and use cunning diplomacy you can get big enough to be safe. Then beat Spain to a pulp, drive he Almos. back into N. Africa and consoldidate.

[Monk]

I build three armies: one under my first heir, one under my King, and one under my second heir.

The Strongest commander gets a force of 300-400 and invades Valencia and fights El Cid. After the Cid is defeated, Navarre is next. I use my King to take that province. With Both of the nearby rebel's taken and under the Throne of Aragon, i make alliances with the French and English, then declare war upon the Spaniards. By taking Castile you can break their power, and Leon will fall easily enough a few years later.

After the Fall of the Spanish, i turn my attention to the Almohads and ravage their land, I don't stop till all their provinces fall. Once All of Iberia and NA are under my control i start trading, launch a few crusades and consolidate. Then its back to war, this time it's Egypt i go against, and soon you can lay claim to the Holy Lands. Drive the Egyptians out of their native provinces but watch out for jihads. Make sure to take all their major holds such as Antioch and Palestine.

By this time it is usually 1140 or 1150. From then on my strategy can differ.

[Crazy Duke]

It?s very interesting playing with Aragones. My first steps are kill the El Cid, mostly bribe guys in Navara, than attack Toulouse and beat French..

After Almo and Spain start fighting, I took advatage, finish with Spain, cause they are bigger threat, and after that whole Africa is mine.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[ShadesWolf]

OK guys intersting question for you then.

For all of those who take Spain before the Almo's how do you cope with the possibility of Ex-communication and not having the ability to CRUSADE against the Almo's.

The Toulouse attack is an intersting one, I had not noticed if an empire is split in two that you could capture the single province without continuing being at war with them after the battle was over....

I will keep that in mind. I think I have played to many EASTERN campaigns http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[fruitfly]

Quote[/b] (ShadesWolf @ Feb. 12 2004,07:25)]OK guys intersting question for you then.

For all of those who take Spain before the Almo's how do you cope with the possibility of Ex-communication and not having the ability to CRUSADE against the Almo's.
If you choose to take out Spain when the Aragonese kingdom only covers Aragon, Navarre and Valencia then you start with three provinces to their two. This means you can conquer Castille without worrying about getting a 10 year warning from the Pope because you're still fairly similar in size (in my games there's generally had to be a bigger difference in faction size before the Pope's got involved).

If that's the case you'll only get the 10 year warning when you invade Leon, and storming the castle there at the earliest opportunity will eliminate them without you getting excommunicated.

[Jeff]

On the first turn I bribe El Cid and Invade Navarre. I believe both are equally important. It is defintely imperative that You get Navarre. In doing so you force Spain to expand south and into the Almos. That way as they war with each other they thin out a bit giving you time to build up and the use El Cid to take the Iberian Peninsula.

[ShadesWolf]

How do you afford to bribe El Cid in the first turn?

If you are playing on Very Hard you dont have enough money until about the 6 turn of the game, thats why I think you ignore him and if nobody else has taken him then bribe him after you have captured Navare.

[Basileus]

Quote[/b] (ShadesWolf @ Feb. 13 2004,01:24)]How do you afford to bribe El Cid in the first turn?

If you are playing on Very Hard you dont have enough money until about the 6 turn of the game, thats why I think you ignore him and if nobody else has taken him then bribe him after you have captured Navare.
True on expert you cant affort him untill turn 4/5

[The_Emperor]

Bribe El Cid ASAP I say, He's a great General and much needed with all those wars of agression you need to thrive.
Also Valencia is the gateway to Stomping the Almos and waging war without Papal Pressure.

Taking Navarre is also a good thing to do early, securing the Northern Border of Iberia. Following on from that I hammer the Spanish from Castile, then I fight for Spain and drive out the Almohads and begin my run across North Africa towards Egypt... That effectively seals off my Lands with natural chokepoints in North and South allowing me to build and build.

Then I either conquer the Middle East or bust out of my Box into Southern France...

[Mysterium]

Ah, I see you have ignored my sure-fire, 12-step strategy for a quick game as Aragon.

Step 1. Invade Navarre

Step 2. Try to bribe El Cid. Don't offer enough, and get your emissary killed.

Step 3. Kill El Cid, the little punk.

Step 4. Waste money on unimportant buildings.

Step 5. Begin trying to build a trade network.

Step 6. Realize that you don't have squat to trade, ships cost 700 florins a piece, and at this rate you won't have paid off the start-up cost for about 6 generations.

Step 7. Build up your army until your support cost = your income. Decide which of the French, English, or Spanish is the weakest.

Step 8. Don't invade them. Instead, invade the strongest.

Step 9. Win, hold the province for a year, then run in the face of the country's entire army.

Step 10. Hole up like a turtle in Aragon. Lose Navarre. Lose that other one. If you're lucky, your king will have died by this point, right when his command skill woulda come in handy.

Step 11. As Fargo at Gamespy says, Get thumped like a bass amp at a Nirvana concert.

Step 12. Done by 1140, at the latest. Have a cookie. You earned it

[ShadesWolf]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif nice one Mysterium http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Mysterium]

In all seriousness, I always do get spanked trying to be Aragon. Something about my playing style - tactically and strategically - just doesn't seem to work. I'm not cautious enough with my units' lives in battle, and I'm not aggressive enough strategically. Is there no way to sit back and wait for an opening with Aragon?

[Monk]

Quote[/b] (Mysterium @ Feb. 13 2004,15:45)]In all seriousness, I always do get spanked trying to be Aragon. Something about my playing style - tactically and strategically - just doesn't seem to work. I'm not cautious enough with my units' lives in battle, and I'm not aggressive enough strategically. Is there no way to sit back and wait for an opening with Aragon?
In my experiances, you have to take Valencia and Naverre as Aragon. If you fail to do so then the other factions will move in and you will only have one province (not a good thing). The Best thing is to expand into the rebel lands, ingore the sea for the moment, and push old El cid out of his happy lands. Once you have locked down Navarre and valencia you should have a very good posiciton, as you now control three provinces and the only way into mainland Europe from Iberia. From here on its a waiting game, whoever seems weakest (almohad or spanish) then the atack goes against them, but be careful as the Pope will start getiing mad if you attack his friends in Castile.

Securing the Iberian Land mass is a big must, otherwise the Almohads will get impatient and ride north to challenge you. But for the first 30-40 years its mostly war. It's only untill after North Africa has fallen that i actually take a breath and start building a navy.

[Kropazz]

That i suggest - never try to bribe El Cid. 5000 Florins (thats of course after he realize that he's got 5 stars lol) or more for army of 2 units jinetes and ....is it spearmen? That not worth even a 1000 considering on the expert u got only 4000. I just started campaign and concentrated on Navare only to get my king some valor and better command, before i take on spain. So i made a lot of rebellions (leave province empty, otherwise u can get a bit to many rebels http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif ) Of course El Cid was killed by Spaniards, but that was't a problem until France started war with English and i invaded .......well province that belonged to england next to me. This way all my treaties was canceled and big WAR began I'm still alive (only coz somehow i got a map with a bridge in Arragon once) and pope did't said a thing about it (so before faithing Spain just start war with some other catholic faction for peace and sake of pope~:cheers: )
I hope i'll win this one.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-speechless.gif

[Jeff]

A couple of observations about El CId. 1st - While yes he is a good General he almost always gets crushed my the Almohads. 2nd I think as Aragon it's a better idea to try and bribe him than let him go as A) it's a waste of a great general and B) why give spain the chance to bribe him and use him against you. I have seen him go as high as 8 stars under a couple of my campaigns. I've never though of taking Toulouse right away as Aragon but I think I will try it and see how I fare. It doesn't seem prudent to bring a potential 3rd enemy down on yourself as Aragon right away but hey I like a good challenge.

[Goofball]

GAH

[Glory]

What's so good about El cid in this game? He's a wimp with a poor army. I mean in real life he was very good, brave and very good in tactics. But I usually don't bride them in early because the Aragonese can be there and be closer to the Almos and help me destory their urban milita, that is of course until I get feudal men at arms.

[Monk]

Quote[/b] (Glory @ Feb. 19 2004,21:39)]What's so good about El cid in this game?
It might have something to do with his 5 or so stars and Expert attacker. Or is it skilled attacker? i dont really remember http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Mysterium]

Gah The curse is lifted I finally got a decent game going Aragon-Early-Expert, it's 1130 and I control Granada to Provence, with the Almohads in Portugal fighting a slow war of attrition against the Spanish in Leon and Castile, with me in Cordoba waiting to sweep in and clean up both. Still have El Cid, and my last king died with 3 heirs and 3 uncles over command 4.

I dunno what I did differently this time, but it worked out. I'm starting a trade empire and I should consolidate Iberia soon. I think the difference is that I finally learned how to use Jinettes well . . . or the six princes . . .

[Sociopsychoactive]

I just failed gloriously as the aragonese.

I invaded navarra, bribed the cid as soon as the price was down (early/expert, boy that hurt my wallet) then built up two armies under my king and the cid. I allied with both spanish and almo's, who weren't fighting at all for once, and built up a bit. Went north with both armies to lift a french siege on the english and invade tolous, got hit by the backlash and hurt them bad, but lost the cid and his army, plus got my king killed.

Then, the spanish invaded While my army was still off holding out against the french. I pegged it back south, broke both sieges and crawled home to aragon to nurse my amny wounds, but they invaded AGAIN and this time I lost the fight to break the siege and got my king trapped in the caste, two years later he starves to death, and his son gets killed by the invading spanish in aragon itself.

I think I should have been more agressive toward the spanish, maybe let them have portugal then spend the rest of eternity fighting off rebels. What really took the buiscuit was that the final battle in aragon (about 400 of mine, all I had left) the almos AND the spanish bth had a go. I might have been able to fight one of them off, but both? GAH

[fruitfly]

I think it's important to bring the Spanish down a peg or two if the Almos aren't, because the French and English are usually too busy fighting each other to bother you, whereas either of your Iberian neighbours will see Aragon as easy pickings provided they're at peace with each other.

[Mysterium]

Yah, the Spanish do need to be kept in check. In my latest, the Spanish/Almohad war was going nowhere, so when the Almo's moved to invade portugal, I moved right into Cordoba behind them. Granada came next, and that let the Almos and the Spanish fight it out in northwestern Iberia, while I held off the Almohads in Granada. If they don't fight from the beginning, one of them must be attacked quickly.

[katank]

I would attack navarre first and then try for alliance with spanish. if they turn me down, i build an inn and invade castile with mercs prompto. if they accept, i would sack toulouse for auto ceasefire and some ransom which i need desperately if i want to bribe the cid.
try for the cid on turn three or four if I have the cash and try to use him to take on spanish king as they would be evenly matched.

I still crack up at the fact that more than half of my army was made of muslim or orthodox mercs early on when I was taking on the spanish.

I also lucked out once and managed to get a civil war going for the spanish after I took castile and the rebels and loyalists evenly matched in leon. I sat back and when i took it, had almost no casualties.

In that game, i was able to wipe out the spanish and take toulouse in addition to navarre and valencia by 1100 and then go for a north africa run.

[Kropazz]

Does anyone actually tried to capture ElCid?
Well, i did't, but the other day i had a dilemma - to bribe 2 units of spearman, both 4stars for nearly 3000 o kill them. It all worked out very well - i captured them and got quite big ransom, bigger then those bustards wonted me to pay them. Same should be with ElCid.
If u want to succseed as Aragorn - trow your king in the battles, that will give good heirs