View Full Version : YA weaknesses
High Honoured unbalanced in the game,weaknesses they do have?
Maybe we can run through all the units again,be helpful i think to most(maybe)
Weaknesses? ARE;
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Grey Wolves
FastCub
Konnichiwa,
YA have 2 less armorpoints in 1.02 so easier to shoot them. But the cheap upgrade allows to buy 2 armor. You won't see much difference when shot by guns, but lsam have more say now.
Pro: beat anything, no skill required, just target anything that moves and is not yours.
A tiny con: when one routs other ashi go too.
They go when the taisho dies.
Pro: Routing YA hardly affect friendly sam units, so you can use them for Kamikaze missions.
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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi
http://www.takiyama.cjb.net
Dont guns affect there moral big style?
Their only weakness is that they do not carry arquebuses.
Toda Nebuchadnezzar
03-27-2002, 03:23
Afterall the wet gunny wedgie is simply ashi with guns instead of yari.
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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"
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They're ashis man - they may be good but I LAUGH when seeing someone getting loads of them. They beat those who don't know how to beat them. But once you know, they're crap plain and simple.
A little flanking with quite any unit, concentrate on them and...
1 ashi routs = all ashi rout = all army routs
Tera.
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BSM_Skkzarg
03-27-2002, 07:17
And lets not forget - for equal koku - naginata will beat YA every time. True, they may be a bit lower in honor, but they last way longer than the YA, meaning the YA breaks while the Nagi dont.
Q!
Skkz
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BSM_Skkzarg
"ARG when I'm Happy, ARG when I'm Sad, ARG when I'm good or bad. ARG!"
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Again with the Naginata eh BSM? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Yep naginata are good vs ashis.
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Quote Originally posted by BSM_Skkzarg:
And lets not forget - for equal koku - naginata will beat YA every time. True, they may be a bit lower in honor, but they last way longer than the YA, meaning the YA breaks while the Nagi dont.
Q!
Skkz
[/QUOTE]
I don't really agree with this. YA H8W3A1 @ 987 koku vs NI H4W1 @ 1003 koku, YA will win in H2H. Both have similar morale. The only advantage NI has is its +2 charge bonus and better armour of 6 against YA of 1. Thus if you have missile supporting the H2H, YA get killed more/faster by the missiles than NI. In just H2H, YA wins. Also YA is faster and have +4 bonus vs cav.
If this YA doesn't appeal to you, get YA H8W2A2 at 1005 koku, which has same combat strength as the former, but +1 extra armour.
Not that I like these superYA. In fact I dont use them. I'll rather shoot them to pieces first than taking them out in H2H at fullsize.
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tootee the goldfish,
headmaster of Shogun-Academy (http://shogun-academy.tripod.com)
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Toda Nebuchadnezzar
03-27-2002, 18:45
For some reason I always choose 2 units of YA simply to hold back, and then charge round the sides to disrupt the enemies missle troops. I find this is helpful, but they need to be something like H4W1A2 so as to make sure they dont run off.
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He is the Messiah
No i'm not the Messiah
Only the true Messiah would deny it.
Alright then I am the Messiah.
HE IS THE MESSIAH HOORAY!!!
Konnichiwa,
Add 4 superYA to your army and winning battles becomes much easier. I agree that composing your entire army with 16 of them isn't the best thing to do, but 4 of them gives you 4 very very strong units that can be used for every kind of job, you even don't have to think:
-Beat cav
-Beat shocks
-Beat spears
-Send them into guns, if they rout, no problem, it will hardly hurt the rest of your army.
"And lets not forget - for equal koku - naginata will beat YA every time. True, they may be a bit lower in honor, but they last way longer than the YA, meaning the YA breaks while the Nagi dont."
Skkzarg san, firstly online games are different from offline games. Secondly, just spending 450 koku on a YA doesn't mean you get a superYA, there are certain upgrades for units that gives you best bang for bucks.
A H7A2W2 YA for 790 koku is such a best buy. The closest nag is then H3W1. The YA eats those, above that the YA has +8 vs cav, which the nag hasn't.
The problem is that common sense makes you think a unit will beat another, and that you'll look for situation where that will happen. If you'll look closer, you'll be surprised: crap beats elite in fair situations.
Apart from gameplayissues, it's an outright insult to think that 60 lousy YA will ever be able to kill 60 Elite Samurai units.
What made the YA succesful in history was it's numbers and cheapness, you could field 10 ashis against 1 samurai. Better use them wise, or that 1 samurai would kill them all.
This has nothing to do with battletactics anymore.
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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi
http://www.takiyama.cjb.net
What a shame. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
Unfortunately that will be an excuse for using them in great numbers, Tos.
Tera.
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My YA are dyslexic and schizophrenic. They are deluded into thinking the enemy is 'out to get them' and thus panic and flee. But because of their dyslexia, they flee forward. And in so doing, crush the very enemy they feared so much!
Ah! My Ashigaru... truly "Beautiful Minds"... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
Terazawa,
The weapon and armor upgrades made the super YA problem worse because of the way they were implemented. Those upgrades are 40% and 60% respectively of the base cost of the unit instead of the current cost of the unit. The final cost is the sum of the honor cost, weapon cost and armor cost each calculated separately. So the YA has a cost advantage in all three categories of upgrade. When WE/MI was released, the cost of upgrades was the very first thing I checked out, and I realized then that these upgrades just added to the "koku game", and they are not even visible on the battlefield.
I now realize that the original 20% for weapon and 30% for armor were the correct proportions for the amount of improvement the upgrade gives the unit. However, the 20% and 30% cost was being applied to the wrong value. When the community complained that the upgrades were too cheap, CA increased the percentage cost of the upgrades, but the correct fix would have been to apply the percentage to the current value of the unit. So, a +1 weapon upgrade on an H8 YA would be 20% of 753 = 150 koku instead of 20% of 100 = 20 koku. What we got for a modification was a change to 40% of 100 = 40 koku. Big deal!! This is why, when we ask for a change to the game, we have to say exactly what the problem is and how to solve it.
MizuYuuki ~~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~
Toda Nebuchadnezzar
03-28-2002, 02:17
I never noticed that http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif Man I was missing out so much, I could have had superAshi and beaten people, but instead I had lowly Ashi who ran away when they saw a wabbit!
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He is the Messiah
No i'm not the Messiah
Only the true Messiah would deny it.
Alright then I am the Messiah.
HE IS THE MESSIAH HOORAY!!!
Don't feel too bad Nebu. I've been trying to make sense of the whole upgrade thing since WE/MI was released, but only recently did we get some critical info from longjohn about the honor upgrades that allows proper analysis, and explains how the YA can close the gap and become better than the more expensive ND and WM so quickly as the YA are upgraded.
It took me two months and hundreds of games since the v1.02 patch to come up 7K, 8K and 10K armies that work well. Some of the problem I had was not spending the koku in the most efficient manner because I was going by flawed analysis instead of trial and error.
MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~
Time for 1.03?
Tera.
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