Rebels

[Wishazu]

ive been playing mtw for just over a year now and something has been bugging me for ages. The Rebel factions. They never do anything, in shogun they would train new units and build new structures in their territories. It seems to me that in mtw they just sit there and wait to be conquered. Whenever i play and i get a huge rebellion, they never try to expand, they still just sit there, even when my surrounding provinces are lightly garrisoned. Is this just me or is this usual?

[Servius]

I think the AI algorith? assigned to the REBEL faction is a "stagnant" one. Thus, the AI that commands Rebel behavior basically isn't motivated to build and conquere, only to sit and wait. Here's the code for Early...

//========================================
//Faction Behaviour
//This is the default behaviour of each
//faction, various in game factor will
//alter it. Rebel are always set to REBEL
//these are the available options
//also note that these are related to the
//product spreadsheet
//CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST_CRUSADER
//CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST
//CATHOLIC_NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST
//CATHOLIC_ISOLATIONIST
//CATHOLIC_TRADER
//CATHOLIC_CRUSADER_TRADER
//CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE_CRUSADER
//CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE
//ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST
//ORTHODOX_STAGNANT
//ORTHODOX_DEFENSIVE
//MUSLIM_EXPANSIONIST
//MUSLIM_PEACEFUL
//MUSLIM_DEVOUT
//POVERTY_STRICKEN
//DESPERATE_DEFENCE
//CLOSE_TO_SUPPORT_LIMIT
//POPE
//BARBARIAN_RAIDER
//REBELS
//========================================
SetBehaviour:: FN_ALMOHAD MUSLIM_PEACEFUL
SetBehaviour:: FN_BYZANTINE ORTHODOX_STAGNANT
SetBehaviour:: FN_DANISH CATHOLIC_NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST
SetBehaviour:: FN_EGYPTIAN MUSLIM_EXPANSIONIST
SetBehaviour:: FN_ENGLISH CATHOLIC_CRUSADER_TRADER
SetBehaviour:: FN_FRENCH CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST_CRUSADER
SetBehaviour:: FN_GERMAN_HRE CATHOLIC_EXPANSIONIST_CRUSADER
SetBehaviour:: FN_ITALIAN CATHOLIC_TRADER
SetBehaviour:: FN_POLISH CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE
SetBehaviour:: FN_RUSSIAN ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST
SetBehaviour:: FN_SPANISH CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE_CRUSADER
SetBehaviour:: FN_TURKISH MUSLIM_EXPANSIONIST
SetBehaviour:: FN_ARAGONESE CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE
SetBehaviour:: FN_BURGUNDIAN CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE
SetBehaviour:: FN_GOLDEN_HORDE BARBARIAN_RAIDER
SetBehaviour:: FN_HUNGARIAN CATHOLIC_DEFENSIVE
SetBehaviour:: FN_NOVGOROD ORTHODOX_EXPANSIONIST
SetBehaviour:: FN_PAPIST POPE
SetBehaviour:: FN_SICILIAN CATHOLIC_NAVAL_EXPANSIONIST
SetBehaviour:: FN_SWISS CATHOLIC_ISOLATIONIST

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

There is no behavior designated for Rebels here, other than REBEL as an option.

[makkyo]

hmmm.... im they usually just sit there as long as your borders are defended. it usually doesn't matter though since their armies are absolutely horrible

[Voigtkampf]

In my last game, the French withered away and left huge rebel armies behind, and they actually did attacked neighboring provinces of factions they were in war with. The game should be played on expert, I believe, for them to become that active, I never saw a rebel army attacking on lower difficulty. But I never watched closely if they actually build any new buildings or train new troops, my guess is a half-firm "no".

[Wishazu]

mmmm... maybe it is more active on expert, ive only been playing on hard lately perhaps i`ll start up a new game on expert. been a while since i played it on that level.

[o_loompah_the_delayer]

Play as England, leave a weak garrison in Northumberland, sooner or later the Scots will invade. the rebels dont do much in the early stages of the game and thank God for that Cna you imagine trying to beat back 4 highlanders with only two peasants and an archer? But later on as the rebel armies get bigger they do become somewhat more active, especially if your neighbourin garrisons are especially weak.

[[DnC]]

Citaat[/b] (voigtkampf @ Feb. 12 2004,02:26)]In my last game, the French withered away and left huge rebel armies behind, and they actually did attacked neighboring provinces of factions they were in war with. The game should be played on expert, I believe, for them to become that active, I never saw a rebel army attacking on lower difficulty. But I never watched closely if they actually build any new buildings or train new troops, my guess is a half-firm "no".
On hard it does it too. I'm playing my own modded game (though several era versions of Early/High/Late) where everything's twice the size, even the starting units - but pretty low/half the upkeep cost with the latest version. In my current campaign there's a rebel faction called the Rurikids whom have attacked and beaten the Novgorods several times now. Their empire consisted of about 5-6 provinces And there have been other active rebels.

The rebels in Shogun were indeed more active, which I missed in MTW aswell.

[Wishazu]

Im gonna start a new campaign right now... but who to play as. Does anyone remember the cheat to allow you to play as the rebels in Shogun, and is there a similar one for mtw?

[Crazy Duke]

Try on expert mode. rebels help each other. I have situation yesterday plying as Pope/Early/Expert, invade from ille de France a unit of rebels in Champagne, but rebels unit from Flanders send a huge unit to Ille de France and some unit to Champagne. I had a luck, cause I have stronger army, and in
Ille de France was a bridge.

Once I've try to play as rebel. I know the cheat .conan. but nothingswork. Other cheats works fine, but usually I don't use them, it's not interesting. Playing with rebels a bit of fun.

Is this cheat work when your faction fight with rebels, and than you can choose them, or at the beggining of campaign to play with all rebels on the map.

[bighairyman]

[/B]Wishazu[B] i believe the cheat code is .conan. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[MiniKiller]

Quote[/b] (Wishazu @ Feb. 13 2004,15:56)]Im gonna start a new campaign right now... but who to play as. Does anyone remember the cheat to allow you to play as the rebels in Shogun, and is there a similar one for mtw?
yup its .conan. from the campaign map.

there tuff here, espically in the viking era. whats cool is if u get wiped out and have no rebels left ur game is not over i lost all my rebels and no units fo 10 years till I had 6 rebel provinces rebel.

[Sociopsychoactive]

On expert I am sure the rebels build units, though I have still never seen them build buildings, and the only units they build therefore are ones already available to build in that province.

And yep, on expert they are more agressive, but not dominantly so. They won't sit still with 2000 troops, but they won't forge empires.

I think I'll go try out .conan.

[Wishazu]

i just been playing a game on expert with egyptians for the last couple of days and quite early on the byz lost all rulers and heirs. The rebels left behind have been effectively functioning as the byz empire from then on. they are in the middle of a full scale war with the sicillians

[TheSilverKnight]

Once, I was playing as the rebels in VI, and every kingdom died out and I won the game by "inheritance". It was bloody brilliant http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[maestro]

I find that in every game I play, the rebels build and upgrade like any other faction. I only play on expert and in the current mod I'm testing, the Rebels hold a lot of land and have a strong force to wield. But I've definitely noticed that they build buildings and train troops because in my mod the only buildings that ANYone starts with is a simple fort at the capital city and when I attack a neighbouring rebel province later on they mostly have lots of buildings for me to pillage http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Bob the Insane]

A small thing I noticed... I have recently played TWM orginal version for a while and I noticed the Irish, if left alone, would build a port and other improvements, whereas I never see them do that after the VI expansion...

[MiniKiller]

Quote[/b] (Bob the Insane @ Feb. 18 2004,09:23)]A small thing I noticed... I have recently played TWM orginal version for a while and I noticed the Irish, if left alone, would build a port and other improvements, whereas I never see them do that after the VI expansion...
the irish are not in the original only vi or did u meant he rebel irish on the big map not just of england?

[Ellesthyan]

You people ought to play Berangians mod. He gave the rebel province Africa an income of 100000 gp I've seen whole factions been destroyed in one turn by the rebels... They build millions of ships and are very aggresively if they have the money to do it.

[Bob the Insane]

Quote[/b] (MiniKiller @ Feb. 18 2004,09:38)]the irish are not in the original only vi or did u meant he rebel irish on the big map not just of england?
Sorry you are quite right, I ment the portion of the rebel faction in Ireland...

[TinCow]

I can also confirm that rebels do build both units and buildings. I am playing VI 2.0 as France and have conquered up to Northumbria. Scotland has been rebel and unmolested since the game began. When I reached Northumbria, they had the usual starting units. About 15-20 years later now they have tripled the size of their army (almost all Highlanders) and built a fort, port and a couple other buildings. That's actually the reason I haven't conquered them. I have troubles down south and I'm trying to build the Krak so I haven't been able to send any resources up north to deal with the Scots. Given that they are actually exceeding my own buildup in Northumbria, I might be in trouble there soon.

*curses the idiot Prince who got himself and his expeditionary army slaughtered in Ireland through carelessness*

[Mouzafphaerre]

-
Rebels build, train and send assasins. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif Believe me, I have proof. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
_

[solypsist]

it's hard for AI rebels to do anything afte the first few campaign turns, since by that time they're usually bankrupt. all rebels on the map share a collective money fund, much like your country/empire does. but since they are not united (there are several different factions of rebels) there is no cooperation, so the ai is unable to come up with a comprehensive plan on how to spend the florins.

and since the rebels (in the early period, anyway) are larger than any starting faction, and have more men, they quickly exhaust their funds, usually after maybe two or three improvements have been built. and once you're out of money, it quickly becomes a matter of diminishing returns -every battle loses rebel soldiers, which cannot be replaced because that costs florins, which they don't have.


and yes, their setting is not an aggressive one.

[katank]

Well, they actually also lose money from all that confiscated land and what nots when their lands get take over.

When you exploit the bug by beating down ten billion rebellions and get loads of cash, you are taking all that money from the poor rebels

That's why they can't build anything. I've actually had a general or two killed by rebel assasins though and rebel ships are really annoying.

[PseRamesses]

Quote[/b] (Servius1234 @ Feb. 11 2004,15:54)]I think the AI algorith? assigned to the REBEL faction is a "stagnant" one. Thus, the AI that commands Rebel behavior basically isn't motivated to build and conquere, only to sit and wait. Here's the code for Early...

There is no behavior designated for Rebels here, other than REBEL as an option.
So what you´re basically saying is that the behaviour of the rebels can´t be changed. If so it´s a pitty since I´ve often been thining about changing this feat of the game.

[Ja'chyra]

I have seen the rebels build units and buildings, Kiev and Khazar are good examples, I have had the message about rebel assassins but I have never seen any rebel ships.

I would like the rebels to be more productive though and for there to be seperate rebel factions, does anyone know how this would be possible?

[TinCow]

Quote[/b] (TinCow @ April 06 2004,15:37)]Given that they are actually exceeding my own buildup in Northumbria, I might be in trouble there soon.
Finally fought them last night. They had about 20-25 units of Highland Clansmen, 1 Archer unit and 1 Peasant unit. I engaged them with a normal spear/archer/MAA/cav mix army and got slaughtered. The clansmen mass-charged my line and my archers weren't able to pick off enough to make a difference. They went through my spears like butter and simply decimated my forces. My MAA and Royal Knights did well, but they were so outnumbered it was hopeless. Fortunately my 6* general got his butt out of there without gaining a vice and he even worked off his gluttony by personally gaining 4 valor (he was the only survivor of his MAA unit, so it's easy to tell). Next turn I bribed the remaining army out of fear that they would invade the now depleted Northumbria. When I took over, Scotland had a port, a fort, 60% farms and a watch tower. I also destroyed two buildings... so for whatever it's worth, the Rebel faction was building up that territory well.

It's interesting that in the game I'm currently playing, my only two defeats have both been at the hands of rebel armies.

[Lord Ovaat]

On expert setting, the Rebs are really quite agressive. If you want to test this, use the "space-ian" command line code; hitting "1" will give you control of the Rebs, then type .deadringer. on the campaign screen. You'll be surprised. The Rebs biggest problem is they are ALWAYS broke. Is this cheating? Maybe for the Rebels. Is modding cheating?

[squippy]

I have definitely seen rebels build and attack on Hard. Just the other day I saw a rebel stack counter-attack the Mongols

I have also, and to my confusion, been subject to constant Assassin harassment by rebel factions. That is a real pain if you cannot make peace with them.

[katank]

rebels counter attacking the Mongols? LMAO
did they win by any chance?

[andrewt]

That's the problem with rebel AI. They're treated as a single faction. That's why when you make war on a rebel province, you are at war with all rebels and why they try to lift a siege if you attack one of them.

I've seen rebels build troops and I've caught some assassins from them.

[Durruti]

Excuse my ignorance. I remember playing with the rebels in STW, but how can I do this in MTW?

I assume you can only play on conquer mode?

If .conan. is the code, where do I & how do I use it? Thanks. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-help.gif

[Satyr]

I had Spain go rebel in one of my games when I was playing as the Sicilians. Not only did they constantly send assasins at me, but they also sent inquisitors after my generals. Later they took out the Aragonese entirely and then attacked my provinces. They were quite strong and well financed by owning all of the Iberian Penninsula and most of N. Africa. I had to completely conquer them to get them to leave me alone. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

[mfberg]

I have seen the Rebels in Sweden and Khazar both build keeps in the same game.
Does anyone know if the Rebels get money from ransoms and pillaging like the factions do?

mfberg

[squippy]

Quote[/b] (katank @ April 08 2004,12:18)]rebels counter attacking the Mongols? LMAO
did they win by any chance?
They made two attacks, one into... erm... like chernigov or similar, and one into Khazar. The khazar stack lost but they took chernigov, or the mongols retreated.

[Wishazu]

WAHEY WOW i havent been around the forums for a couple of months now, im glad to see this post is still active. This must be my most successfull post ever, thanks guys http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif