Enemy general left the field

[Crazy Duke]

Playing the Turks/Late/Expert, I had one battle with Byz, defending my province. Both armies was huge, and I was quite good during almost all battle, but at the end Katafraktoi won the battle, and next turn I brought more units and beat him, easily.

But the main thing I wrote this was about Byz general. It was 7 star Katafraktoi general with 3 horse in his unit. At the beginning of the battle when his army prepare for attack, he left the field with no consequence for his army?

Where are the penalty on valor and morale to his army? Is this a bug, or something ?normal?? Does someone have similar experience?

[RisingSun]

well since you cannot directly guage the morale effects on HIS army, how do you know? An army which has not yet engaged in combat will not route if theyre general leaves.

[MiniKiller]

he simply withdrew, not running or lossing men

[Thoros of Myr]

I've noticed that if they think thier army is superior in some way they won't retreat at the death of the gen, even peasants will stay and fight.

[Aelwyn]

Withdrawing your General does not adversely affect the morale of your army. Routing does, but not simply withdrawing.

[fruitfly]

In my current Italian (expert) game, the HRE have tried to capture Venice every ten years or so, and every time they invade their general withdraws right at the start of the battle.

It's an annoying tactic because it means you have to rout all the units individually and can't rely on instigating a chain rout by killing the general himself.

[desdichado]

I've seen this a lot too with the general by himself in a unit - not sure why the AI just didn't retrain his unit or combine some units.

The only downside I think is that the enemy won't get the morale benefit of being near the general but its minor.

I tried having a couple of fast cavalry units deployed as far forward as possible to try and catch him bu they never make it in enough time to kill him.

[Kraxis]

desdichado is right, the enemy will not get the 'Encouraged by General' (not the reputation though), but that is all. It is a real evil one, but he runs the risk of getting the Vice, Hesistant, I believe.

[Nowake]

Quote[/b] (fruitfly @ Feb. 16 2004,11:46)]In my current Italian (expert) game, the HRE have tried to capture Venice every ten years or so, and every time they invade their general withdraws right at the start of the battle.

It's an annoying tactic because it means you have to rout all the units individually and can't rely on instigating a chain rout by killing the general himself.
You should be happy.

How Eager to retreat will get?

[fruitfly]

Quote[/b] (Nowake @ Feb. 16 2004,19:24)]
Quote[/b] (fruitfly @ Feb. 16 2004,11:46)]In my current Italian (expert) game, the HRE have tried to capture Venice every ten years or so, and every time they invade their general withdraws right at the start of the battle.

It's an annoying tactic because it means you have to rout all the units individually and can't rely on instigating a chain rout by killing the general himself.
You should be happy.

How Eager to retreat will get?
He hasn't picked up that vice yet unfortunately, but I've got a wall of pav arbs there now so invasions are delt with pretty easily.

I've only seen the eager to retreat vice appear by withdrawing the whole army rather than just the general's unit itself (then again I've never just withdrawn my general from a battle).

[Kraxis]

Eager to Retreat comes when you pull the entire army out, and not on the field.

Actually Hesistant is also strategic, if you want to attack and call it off. So that isn't a penalty either.

[motorhead]

Originally posted this over at .com, but seems relevant to this thread too:

If a general's unit get routed he can get: good runner (-3morale), doubtful courage(-6M), and coward (-9M)

If a general avoids combat all the time he can get: not so bold (-2M), timorous (-4M, -1V), and cowardly (-6M, -2V)
** I've seen less of this since the VI patch 2.01, possibly just me.

If a general's army always withdraws w/o fighting on defense (during the pre-battle screen) he can get: eager to retreat (-1loyalty,-2morale), retreats often (-1L,-4M), and retreats very often (-3L,-6M). [** generally, factions that are on the ropes and getting chased out of many provs will have generals with these vices]

If a general's army always withdraws w/o fighting when invading/attacking (pre-battle screen) he can get: hesitant (-1L,-2M), indecisive (-2L,-4L), and vacillator (-3L,-6M). [** I've seen crusades that invade year after year, yet never come to battle. Their lucky leader always gets vacillator]

[Aelwyn]

I've seen this used in MP as well. It is more relevant there I feel, depending on which army is taken. So some people, rather than controlling their general, have chosen to take a v0 peasant general, and simply withdraw them. It is seriously not worth it imo, as I have used my gen many times to swing the battle. Of course, I have lost a few games because of him, but if his unit wasn't there....most of those times I would have lost anyways. If you get what I mean. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

[Bob the Insane]

It could be a side effect of his unit being so small... You you try to withdraw a full unit, quite often the last few troops will rout off the field (guess the troops leaving the feidl are confused with casualties). As a consiquence if you pull your general off as a full unit he can get the Good Runner vice, but if there is only a couple of troops in the unit, it does not have time to rout... Thus no vice and no ill effect on the army...

[Cebei]

That happened to me too. Very brilliantly, the general's first line of men (if he has reinforcements too) are all units that do not fear the death of the general. He retreats early, when his troops dont care about it, then fights and then the pther low units came as reinforcements without any affects of general's withdrawal.

[kawligia]

If he leaves in any way, shape, or form, does is army still get the bonuses from his command level, or any V+V's?

[motorhead]

Quote[/b] ]If he leaves in any way, shape, or form, does is army still get the bonuses from his command level, or any V+V's?
- So long as he hasn't left by dying (any way, shape, or form http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif), his army will get the +attack/defense benefits due to his command level. The V&V part is a good question. Will his army still get the +morale benefits if he has charismatic leader? My guess would be no, but i don't recall any info on this.

edit: His army will lose the +morale modifiers due to his command level, since they're dependent upon him actually being on the field. At least that's what the official strat guide implies in the morale section: "presence of a competent commanding general".

[kawligia]

I don't think they should get ANY bonuses from his command ability if he isn't there to command. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif