late game turks

[stimozi]

How do turks play lategame? I'm being mutilated by the english... billmen, halberdiers, chivalric knights and men at arms etc...

I have 3 provinces pumping janissaries and kwharziam cavalry in other provinces... and I use a lot of ottoman infantry, ghazi, futuuwa, turcoman, armenian heavy cavalry, saracen infantry etc

Once i had a battle where i had 13000 vs 7000 and I auto-resolved it (would take too long) and lost
I then went back to play it manually and I got creamed... 2 units of billmen annihilating so much :(


help
thanks

[Basileus]

Those bill men can be realy tough when they come with alot of honor, use your bows on them and try to find a way to flank them, headon all your units especialy the ones who are armoured will have a tough time Saracens especialy..if you have Janissary Heavy Inf it would be alot easier but dont let them fight with the billmen alone when they engage flank.

[Somebody Else]

Ghazi infantry all the way Cheap, and certainly very cheerful. Manic in fact. Just send hordes of them from every angle. Bound to cause trouble.

And of course keep flanking them etc. And filling them with arrows. Naptha if you can manage it.

[ichi]

Others may disagree, but I would replace the Kwaz Cav with Armenian Heavy Cav. When I play the Turks I use a large number of cav archers - Turcoman Horse Archers aren't the best fighters but they are fast and can really hurt if used well.

Work one province hard to get to Janissary Heavy Infantry, that will take care of the English Cavalry.

Turks require a lot of work, but can be very tough. The secret is to make sure that your hybrid troops (Ottomans, Futs, Turcomans) shoot all their arrows before they engage. Use those Saracens in a wall to hold the enemy in place while the rest of your guys shoot.

The most basic issue with the hybrids is whether to set them on Engage-at-will or skirmish. I use them on skirmish early (unless they get charged by cav, then set on engage) to keep them just out of reach of those Catholic swords. This confuses the AI and also increases the fatigue of those armor-wearing gin drinkers.

After their numbers are down from taking arrows, and when I can get a little advantage (like 2 on 1 or a good little slope to defend) switch the Ottomans (or whatever) to engage-at-will.

ichi

[katank]

you shouldn't play the turks like catholic factions. play like a slug fest and you it's not great. try lots of turcomans if you can. run circles around them and shoot them up. they have nothing as fast as your 24/26 turcomans. it's really tough to manage so much cav tho so check out seljuk's replays. they are great.

BTW, where are you fighting? if in the desert, you khwarzies will get cooked too. you can always use mass HA tactic anywhere. you don't have to win but simply attrit them. next turn, invade their weakened army and they are toast.

[stimozi]

What are HAs?

I try to outskirmish them but vs. longbows.... its :[

We're finding in desert right now so my janissaries are cooked too

[motorhead]

HA = horse archers
Turks get +1V turcoman HA from tripoli.

- You should definitely be building Armenian hvy cav (AHCs) in armenia for the +1V bonus. Tack on a master horse building and you've got some very nice +2V AHC, but they shouldn't go head-on with catholic hvy cav.

- Do a search on the boards for turk strategy. IMO, if yer using khwars over AHC you need to overhaul how you play Turks.

[Aelwyn]

Not to mention the AHC have lower armour, and when you're going up against good armour piercing units, your heavier armoured units are going to get eaten up. Start checking the valour of the troops you're going up against as well. Know the stats of your men, and maybe some of the opponents stats, and it will help you calculate the odds of a unit winning.

[kiwitt]

After destoying the Mongol Horde on landing, 305 minute battle, I am looking at what to build next. I have RUM building +4 Armor Hashishins at the moment. The other provinces just the best Horse Archers and Infantry available.

[stimozi]

Im just getting murdered by billmen up close and longbows from anywhere.

[John86]

hello, i have a few tips to win with turks in late on a multiplayer or against AI with 10000 florin game (not campain mode).

1. If you are against a catholic faction, only get 2 crossbowmemn with no valour, weapons or armour. use the 2 crossbowmen to only distract the enemy pavs.

2. Stock up on Jannisary inf, use them to out manuver the pavs and move to the side of you enemy while your crossbowmen distract. use JI to hit inf and cav. Put most of your valour and weapons to Jannisary inf. If a enemy cav attacks JI in the open, with a lot o val, you can take em down.

3. Get at least[B] 2-3 Sacren inf with 3-4 val and maybe a weapon or 2. They are very important for your plan. Lets take billmen at 60 men. When 6 billmen charge, you need to use 3 sacren Inf to hold them off. While the Sacren inf are holding them off, use your Jannisary inf to hit them with arrows.

4. Only get 4 units of cav. Muslim cav is horrible. use it only to protect your flanks and at times flank. When your sacren inf is holding of the enemy, flank with 1 unit of cav.

5. Get 2 units of Gazi Inf, the are quick, have high attack, great morale and cost very little. use them to protect flanks and flank inf. Be sure to use them only against inf, against cav they do less damage.

6. When jannisary inf runs out of ammo, use them as meele units. Flank, hold cav, or track down gen, they work great with 2-3 points of val.

The turks are extremely hard to play in late and i reccomend you put the most of your florins in campain mode into archers and HA. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

[katank]

don't build hashishins. they are waste of florins IMHO.

use lots of HAs and tons of hybrid troops. use ottoman inf for armor piercing.

avoid their longbows like a plague since they outrange anything you have. BTW, u don't get crossbows or arbs.

don't easily take on longbows as their melee can also give you a nasty surprise.

AHC and valour is better. always choose valour over armor as it boost defense but also is not vulnerable to AP weapons.

just use common sense. play like historical turks and hit and run until they drop dead. try and separate their heavily armoured troops and pick them off individually. pull them away from longbow's protective fire and your HA's can waste them. use the knight's impetousity against them.

[John86]

I have a great new strategy which works best when you have a hill advantage, or the enemy does. get 3 crossbowmen. First, put them all in loose. Send one foward to attack, let the passive arblasters of enenmy shoot them(since arbs reload quick, there ammo will run out quickly) when that crossbowmen unit is down to 1 men or the enemy stops shooting, send another one foward. Do this until the arbs are out of ammo. Then you can use your archers on their men. good luck http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[stimozi]

thats a cruel but interesting strategy :P

[kiwitt]

I am entering Late Game Turks now after conquering 60% of the map, I have decided to reduce my forces and retreat from some provinces (about 20%), uneconomic to maintain. I reduced my forces, by attacking and destroying Hungary, by Auto-Resolve (just to make the losses heavier than normal).

My initial capital province of RUM is nearly ready to produce JHI and in the meantime I am building Hashashin. My other province will take over this role once they get that far.

I will use these forces from about 1350 to conquer the map.

PS: I have converted the Papacy Provinces to 90% Muslim so far.

[stimozi]

I didn't take the liberty of building an empire, I jumped right in a Late game... I've discovered its so much easier if you start from scratch at early... I'm using the spanish and i have lancers SO early :/

[mbrasher1]

Interesting thread. I am currently rediscovering the Turks. They have some fascinating units. In early, my core army is saracen spears, futuwwa (they replaced the earlier desert archer), ghazi and AHC.

I am plowing through Europe, hurtling towards JHI in Constantinople and Rum by 1205, with Bulgarian production coming online shortly thereafter.

I must admit to being a sucker for province bonuses. They make the unit so much stronger. But even so, futuwwas are superior to the other hybrids -- otto inf, turcoman foot, even to janissary infantry, IMHO. Their fighting ability is not close to janny infantry, but using a janny province for janny infantry is a big mistake: the JHI is so far superior to other melee/flankers that it is better to get more of them and use the comparative advantage you get by combining them with futuwwas (ie, one futuwwa and a JHI will whip a JI and any hybrid. Unless you have a ton of janny capable provinces, better to specialize.)

The Turcoman horse are amazing units. They are perfect for mopping up fleeing enemies -- their attack is higher than Turcopoles, so they are better at this task.

As for the other Turkish cavalry, I feel myself having to adjust my tactics and army approach. Their cav is slightly weaker and cannot go toe-to-toe with Catholic cav arms. That's OK though, cuz you are not supposed to fight cav with cav, but use spears against them. So I asm more sparing in my use of massed cav charges -- they are much more vulnerable.

Anyways, my 2 cents on the Turks.

[kiwitt]

JHI in Constantinople ?

I have built the Military Academy and am nearly at building JHI in Rum where it is built.

Can you build JHI in any province that has the required buildings, not just the one with the Military Academy. (i.e. the Military Academy is effective for all my provinces)