View Full Version : A note on the uses of cavalry!!!
Sakurai, Saionji
03-31-2002, 20:39
Yes,
I know i havnt been here in awhile but i have been caught up in a lot of other stuff,
school, friends, Motor City Online, Graal, and other things. (this is my excuse for leaving or being away from most games :P)
Anyway I have this book called Secrets of the Samurai. It is like 450 pages long, and it is in in-depth view and description of all the major forms of Bujutsu (martial arts) as well as who they were used by, and it also talks about the different classes and people in Japan in the fuedal ages, I.E. The Sengoku period and the Tokugawa military dictatorship society thing. Anyway I reccoment you all buy and read it.
Anyway getting to the point i would like to talk about cavalry. Many people make the mistake of sending cavalry into the thickness of battle, versus swarms of troops. This is not the proper use. Proper tactics would be to dispatch your own infantry or your own Yari Samurai against their Yari Samurai, or your monks or no-dachi or whateer against their Yari troops.
When their troops have been effectively dispersed. Cavalry should be sent in to fight them in one on one combat, this way they can be obliterated before they can re-group. Cavalry were not ever intended to charge as a group, into another group. You were never meant to use a block of cavalry against a block yari spearmen. (most of us know this) Altho you may be able to use cavalry against no-dachi and sword bearing infantry, you might want to save a good amount of them for chasing down dispersing and fleeings troups. Alot of us probably know this, but I just felt the need to post this lol.
Very true m8. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Cavalry exist ultimately to give the final punch to a battle by flanking/rearing or helping other units to slaughter - or reinforce weak spots on the battlefields.
In STW/MI/WE most cavalry will work on a frontal attack against infantry shock troops (nodachi, monks) but remember that this game is not real warfare after all http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
theforce
03-31-2002, 21:42
Nad thing about this though is while your cav is waiting for the enemy to become weak so that it can attack the other guy will have more units in the battle and the battle might finish before you have time to use em.
Anyway in real life the armies had a shitload of soldiers bit with 960 soldiers a 60 men unit is a lot l think.
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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
BakaGaijin
04-01-2002, 00:15
Of course, you could always hold your cav behind the line as moral support for the line troops, so they're not "wasted" while you're waiting for the charge. Their charge bonus will surely allow them to reach the battle on time, but it will require some good timing to do it properly.
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"If your soul is imperfect, living will be difficult." -- Ryo Hayabusa, DOA2
Sakurai, Saionji
04-01-2002, 01:36
Yes he may have more units,
but if he is just throwing his cavalry at you he is wasting them, and when they are start wavering cus they are losing you can throw your cavalry at them. Or they will use their cavalry succesfully but they are wasting them so badly because yes they might narrowly defeat all your yari guys or shock troops, they will be so worn out they will be easy bait for your cavalry. And if they are attacking your shock troops or are going to attack our shop troops just keep pulling them back, eventually they will either thing smart and stop chasing them, or they will chase them right past your front lines, and then you can trap them between your shock troops and cavalry or other troops.
The important thing to remember about STW is that attrition happens at lightning speed compared to real life. In actual battles, you see melees usually lasting 5, 15, or maybe on really good days 30 minutes. In STW, they are over in less than 30 seconds. So alot of the things don't work the way you would think by studying the actual.
Matt
I also agree that timing is essential when using cavalry the timing of charges is arguably the most important if you go in too early your cavalry will be destroyed if you do it too late then your front line will be destroyed already
Vlad_The_Impaler
04-01-2002, 16:11
I remember that once solypsist said that when he saw that the opponent have much cavalry he knows that he already win the day; i think that si very true and i'm completly agree with that
Don't really believe that.
Lol, has soly ever played Magy? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
MagyarKhans Cham
04-01-2002, 19:49
horses? are they any good?
BakaGaijin
04-01-2002, 21:48
Tera: Probably not. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
We should also keep in mind that those statements were made well before the 1.02 patch.
And I'm not sure about *good*, Cham, but they certainly are very pretty. Pretty horsies! Hehe.
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"If your soul is imperfect, living will be difficult." -- Ryo Hayabusa, DOA2
[This message has been edited by BakaGaijin (edited 04-01-2002).]
[This message has been edited by BakaGaijin (edited 04-01-2002).]
Sakurai, Saionji
04-02-2002, 05:13
what statements were made before the 1.02 patch?
Also i onyl have Shogun Total War,
not the warlords addition or mongol invasion.
Also does the mongol invasion also include the extra campaigns that the warlod addition odes (excluding the mongol invasion campaign. duh. lol)
Sakurai,
In old STW, apart from the real very few experts, cavalry are not really worth buying - its true. The yari cavalry could beat a nodachi but it was expensive and very low morale - however it was quite popular since the Nag cav didn't exist.
Pretty few used the Heavy cavalry in STW, most of the games were 5k-6k and they were too expensive and not too much effecive. (a monk could beat them)
Today all is very different since the Naginata cavalry can beat most units and Heavy cavalry can slaughter even more hard.
Tera.
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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
MagyarKhans Cham
04-02-2002, 06:30
My Khan of Khans stated that he will upload all his all cav games onlines he recorded lately....
befor ehe does that who is interested?
I am, very much...
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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
I not sure about others, but I always love the battlecam. So far, only Krast and Tosa had uploaded their fine games. Wish to see how you use those cav magy http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif.
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tootee the goldfish,
headmaster of Shogun-Academy (http://shogun-academy.tripod.com)
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I'm very happy if someone can teach me how to properly use cavalry in Multi-game.
In campaign and custom battle, my cavalry will rock. However, all of the tactics I used in Multi-game, so far, would lead to a quick defeat.
I bet if you try this:
4 x HC
4 X YC
4 x NC
4 x CA
100 times online, by the 100th battles you should be an expert http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
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tootee the goldfish,
headmaster of Shogun-Academy (http://shogun-academy.tripod.com)
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Vlad_The_Impaler
04-02-2002, 18:29
agains 16 YS? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
BakaGaijin
04-02-2002, 19:30
Or 16 Nag. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Mag: I, too, would be VERY interested in seeing your recorded battles!
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"If your soul is imperfect, living will be difficult." -- Ryo Hayabusa, DOA2
Quote Originally posted by BakaGaijin:
Or 16 Nag. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Mag: I, too, would be VERY interested in seeing your recorded battles!
[/QUOTE]
Make them MPGs so we can view them on the web and not have to go home and fire up the game...
shingenmitch2
04-02-2002, 22:46
Sakurai, Saionji ---
becareful, rember the Cav tactics for "Real Life" and "This Game" are very different.
Your initial post seems to be gleened more from "historical" battles... and is true for history.
HOWEVER, this is a game and although it models some things correctly -- not everything is accurate. If you try to apply "historical"principles to this game online you will die quickly.
STW/MI has its "own" reality -- and thus those are they only true tactics for our purposes online. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Quote Originally posted by BakaGaijin:
Or 16 Nag. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
[/QUOTE]
How much do I have to repeat...
NAGINATA DON'T BEAT HC!!! (and probably neither NC) http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/mad.gif
Tera http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
BakaGaijin
04-03-2002, 01:19
Bah! They should! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
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"If your soul is imperfect, living will be difficult." -- Ryo Hayabusa, DOA2
theforce
04-03-2002, 03:06
That didn't happent to me. Me and Sword defending Totomi on a nice day. We were expecting a rush so we stayed a bit back.
That happent in the 1.01 days. Suddently 32 units of NC are charging. It was kind of funny. That was the horde. First attackers were blocked well but when our ys died we lost http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
It was quite nice. If you have a projectile advantage and the other guys has many cav u can win easily. Basically Magy and the wolves are using the most irritating unit in the game which is CA. Got l hate then. I must use em though since most of the other guys just love having some especially in maps like the ironing board, green etc.
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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
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