Irish and bows

[Glory]

In the Viking expansion you can play as the Irish. There infantry is good and cheap, javelins aren't that great. But I'm surprised to find that the Irish never got the technology of the bow and arrow I mean I thought it was pretty universal every culture I know espically in around 800 a.d had the bow. That's the Irish main downside in sp and mp. Does anyone have a historical information about if the Irish really didn't have the bow and arrow at that time?

[Tribesman]

Glory ; bows were not common in warfare in early Ireland , short spears and axes were the most common . the Vikings had established 3 major settlements in the 9th century and many smaller ones . Armour was also unusual amongst the natives though Brain Borus' unarmored forces did thouroughly defeat the armoured Danes ending Norse influence.
The first major use of bows was in Waterford in 1170 by Dermot MacMurchada with 200 Men at Arms and over 1000 archers , but these archers had been recruited from the Welsh Marches . Gallowglasses were Scottish mercenaries who were armoured and used axes . Arquebus were first used in Ireland in 1504 at Knockdoe Co. Galway though most accounts say that they wouldn't fire because of the rain (how unusual in the west of Ireland).

[gaelic cowboy]

The irish dont need archers javelins are great if used properly they are brillant against armoured units dont tire as fast because they dont carry armour and they can fire in the rain and the desert heat doesn't sap there energy.

[Knight_Yellow]

whenever i go against the irish i bring Half horses (all those missile troops are useless agains them)

and half archers

much much longer range and fire way more often a minute.

i once got 3000 kills with 12 Archers because the irish couldnt get up my hill without routing.

lost my king though becuase i got cocky and charged him into the routers and about 600 spearmen reinforcements caught him at the edge of the map.


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[Seven.the.Hun]

i only ever really find javelin guys useful in say a bridge battle, or if u charge and melee a unit, then hoist them at the enemy over your own troops with a second unit, then they do well, other than this ,however, on their own, it takes alotta work to make them effective as far as using the javelins, i normally use such troops mostly in melee anyway, and i only use their javelins when the need arises or its useful to do so...

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[Seven.the.Hun]

oh yes...and i went through and doubled the # of javelins that all those troops carry too, i forgot that, i figured if that was gonna be their thing, then i should force them all to carry more javelins...ha, i've been evil to all the spearchuckers...makin them carry all that stuff, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[Robin Locksly]

Them dartmen are really, really effective.

They kill much, much much more then any other missile unit in the game. Except the naptha's

[lancelot]

dartmen have a better range than kerns as well dont they?

I love using them to chew up slower infantry units.

[Gregoshi]

Let's get to the heart of the matter: darts are more practical for a pub game than the bow. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Tribesman]

Gregoshi ; It depends on the pub http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[Gregoshi]

Hehehe...tough pub. They serve ale in broken glasses, eh?

[katar]

you should try out a combination of Bonnaghts, Kerns and Dartmen sometime, all backed up with a few horse units.

every unit mentioned, apart from the horsemen, throw missiles. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

they can destroy most opponents if you do it right.

only three things to remember when using the Irish, the most important one being MICROMANAGEMENT, you won`t get squat out of them unless you do it.

the other two things to remember are to disable skirmish and fire at will.

then you will be able to give all those foerign invaders a warm Irish welcome. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[Senta]

exactly why i hate irish skirmishers... i did cut their 6000 army to pieces with some 600 vikings, but i absolutely hated their skirmishers... if you pursue more than one unit, the other one will just stop and oh, so calmly destroy you with their javelins/darts... after this battle, every time i see the irish, i think about auto resolve...

[katar]

Quote[/b] ]if you pursue more than one unit, the other one will just stop and oh, so calmly destroy you with their javelins/darts

that`s one of my favourite tactics, take three units of kerns, make an enemy unit chase you, while it tries to engage one unit of kerns the other two attack from opposite flanks and quickly rip them to shreds (sometimes the enemy unit will freeze in between the kerns, allowing the third unit to turn round and also engage them). http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

even better when the AI tries to send more units to help out that unit, as i get to ambush them as well http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Irish units are perfectly designed for fluid hit and run tactics.

using cavalry is a good defence against them, until the cavalry end up in the forests, then it`s happy hour again.

by the way, i didn`t even mention what you can do to the enemy when you throw a few gallowglass units into the mix. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Senta]

Quote[/b] (katar @ Feb. 21 2004,08:27)]
Quote[/b] ]if you pursue more than one unit, the other one will just stop and oh, so calmly destroy you with their javelins/darts

that`s one of my favourite tactics, take three units of kerns, make an enemy unit chase you, while it tries to engage one unit of kerns the other two attack from opposite flanks and quickly rip them to shreds (sometimes the enemy unit will freeze in between the kerns, allowing the third unit to turn round and also engage them). http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif exactly... but thank god for their low morale, because if used properly this guy can destroy half of your army, without taking heavy losses... and they're not like archers, once engaged in melee combat, they can hold their own, at least long enough for another unit of Kerns or dartsmen to close on you, and rain their missiles down on your troops...
when i restarted Vike's campaign, i took care of the Irish first; taking Emerald Isle over, and letting their King sit in small province under my guard (didn't want to deal with any reemergences before i was ready for them) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-glasses2.gif

[katar]

you should take them out for a spin sometime.

if you yourself learn how to use them in defence and attack you probably won`t find them so frustrating to fight against next time round.

know thy enemy. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Senta]

Quote[/b] (katar @ Feb. 22 2004,03:50)]you should take them out for a spin sometime.

if you yourself learn how to use them in defence and attack you probably won`t find them so frustrating to fight against next time round.

know thy enemy. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
words of the wisdom... and i actually bribed one of Irish armies, to try them out... very effective indeed, and valuable lesson for me as well... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif