Arqubuisers, useless or great?

[John86]

I am a bit curious about arqubiusers. Ive seen people get entire arq armys and win. This maybe random luck. If it rains there useless.

[Robin Locksly]

I sometimes buy 1 or 2 arqs and I line them up infront of my main-line so when the enemy advane towards me to attack, my arqs will fire upon them, they useually get 2 shots in before I retreat then to the back of the main-line.

The reason I do this is becuase gunpowder scares the enemy and I think gives them a -1 morale hit so when the main-line charge the enemy they will have that little bit of an advantage.

[John86]

I tried getting 8 arqs and 8 boyars. I defeated my enemy but with a lot of casualities. I was expecting arqs to work better, but even when they were in stay in formation mode, they still seemed to head towards fighting when attacked rather than shooting.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_charge.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_duel.gif

[AggonyDuck]

Arq fire at point blank range is killer, atleast if u ask my shot to pieces and routed chiv knights.....11 dead on one volley lol... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
Anyways arqs are also relatively strong in melee and when upgraded right are almost as strong as handguns... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Robin Locksly]

Yeah, if u fire a volly into an enemy unit at pointblank range, the whole front rank will drop dead lol.

[Gore]

Hall MasterHiji :)
Arubuisers are good because they destroy enemy morale.
But I use them only in desert battles (only MP). In SP I don't produce them.

[lancer63]

Arqs. are deadly on defensive roles; specially on bridge assault 4 units of sicilian arqs. took care of quite a bit english invaders, specially heavily armored ones. Of course enemy arbs. and LBs took their toll on my men. But I had my own arbs. and pavise xbows to counter them. Plus my jinetes made mince meat of them after the bridge cleared.
Arqs. are good at their role but they're not long range, and fast. Yet I've seen them withstand a cav. charge as well as a spear unit.

[Voigtkampf]

Arquebusiers are good units, but they must be handled with care; it is definitely no unit I would give a key role in any more serious engagement, but they are good in lowering the enemy moral and are simply great if you wait for the point-blank range.

[Puffs]

I have had some great luck with Arqubuisers using them in the following manner.
I line the Arq up in 3 rows in front of my spear ranks. Spears are in a hold position, hold formation command.

AqAqAqAqAq
SSSSSSSSSS
AAAAAAAAAASSSSSSS

This gives them optimal firing and reloading time as the front moves to the back rank. I usually wait a few moments after the arrow turns green to shorten the range and improve accuracy.

Then just when the enemy is within charge range, I CTRL-W the gunmen and then halt them once they run past my archers. Switch to wedge formation, and do a B-line to the flank and then switch back up to a line. Seems like a lot of work, but you get used to doing it, and if you are really suffering then that is what the pause key is for.

Then you line them up like this:
AqAqAq
AqAqAq
SSSSSSSSSSS AqAqAq
AAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSS

[Trax]

Arquebusiers and arbalesters together are killers, when defending hills. Arbalesters do most of the killing and arquebusiers scare the hell out of the enemy with a point blank range volley.

[Kropazz]

Hey Hiji http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif I tried them just as we there talking last time (well i had only 5 not 8), they had amazingly high amount of kills - 30 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif But they seems done they job pretty well, coz my enemy routed quite easely, and i still had 4 out of 5 units left (perhaps wasn't greatest opponent lol). So i think they really worth to explore more http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif All u have to do is pray for a sunshine http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif

[Puffs]

Um, yeah, i meant Arbalesters. It applies for both though.
Works great with the Pavaise.

Oh yeah, and one odd trick is to keep the spears on an open formation. This allows your range troops to withdraw faster. Once they are through the spears, you close the formation again. Of course, only if the timing provides.

[John86]

I found out my mistake with 8 boyars, 8 arqs:
I spread out my first line a lot (hopeing i would get more shots fired at one time) which made them have a longer reload time and when cav went into them, they killed a lot due to the stretchiness. Whould I should have done is make the first line many ranks deep so when cav hits, only the first rank fights and the others fire. The second row is stretched out. Right? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Chaffers]

I prefer Handguns myself but Arqs are very useful troops. Buying 8 units of them dosn't work very well, though having a single unit does, they arn't really there to cause casualties but to rout the enemy through fear. Doubling their numbers dosn't in any way double their effectiveness.

[John86]

When i used my 8 arq, 8 boyars army, i won, but not as easily as i thought. And yes it is very useful to get 8 arqs. I watched as 100 byz inf at 3 val routed when 4 arq shots hit em. So if your gonna get arqs, i reccomend you get a lot.

[Gore]

Arqubuisers have longer range than handgunners as well.

[Seven.the.Hun]

oh i love to see those enemy arqubuisers off in neighboring lands, all optimistic about attacking me, and so overconfident in defending what is theirs...
i especially enjoy killing them...slaughter them all i say, burn their corpses and use the ashes as fertilizer, muahahahaha...
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif

[Crash]

Arqs are very good at routing a less than tough enemy, but against a tough aggressive army like the GH (or a human player) they will get massacred.

I've seen Arqs easily drive off attacks by peasants, militia, spearmen, warriors, and other low morale units, but they won't stop the charge of a high morale unit.

I like to keep a few of them around to defend provinces where the potential enemy armies have lower quality infantry. Sometimes if the terrain is favorable I place the arqs where they can fire into the enemy attackers without being easily attacked themselves, like on a steep hillside or on edge of woods defended by my infantry. In a bridge or castle defense they can mow down many attackers, so I try to make sure all of my castles and river border provinces have at least one arq.

[Chaffers]

They are very good at routing all enemies, though expecting them to stop a charge of Lancers is a bit much...

Either have them firing through a gap in your front line or swing them around the side for the extra morale bonus of firing into the flank and most things break. If the unit dosn't break then wait until they've taken a few casualties and fire again...

I find having two units or arbs and a single unit of arqs works very well in all armies. Put the Arq in the centre and sometimes they will hold the opposition forces at range while the arbs do some serious damage. If the opposition start to get too close then either charge through your misileers or retreat behind a wall of spears. Try not to let them fire at maximum range though, let them see the whites of their eyes.

[gaijinalways]

I like them too, especially for attacking the back flank of attacking knights or firing into an enemy that is struggling to reach you (or reluctant to). They will sometimes rout though, so you have to protect them and try to raise their valor through some easy battles. I don't find that they fight that well, though they do help if you have them fight against less armored troops and then shoot arrows at your attackers (and your self as usually you won't take many casualties with the arrows bouncing off).

[Senta]

well, back in the medieval times, the firearms were more of the fear factor than the actual weapon. Research has shown that even, improved XVI century firearms would have a incredibly high dud rate, resulting in as many as 65 out of 100 shots being useless. Facing a charging heavy cavalry, their hit rate would actually be lowered, so they were not terribly effective. Therefore, i do not tend to use them as much, but like stated earlier, they can come in handy in some situatuions, especially if firing from short range and protected by pike or spear men.

[John86]

Heres another fact about medieval guns I heard on a documentry: only 1 out of 1000 bullets actually hit the enemy the gunner was aiming at.

[octavian]

gunpowder units can be good, however, i only put them in the attacking army when i have the option of not using them on a rainy day (e.g. i already have 16 units in my army, and then i throw a few gunpowders in so i can use them if i have the opportunity

[AqConsul]

I think that Arqs are the best out of the Pav Arbs and Xbows because they are not quite as slow as the other two, and becuase they can scare the enemy and still have the same amount of hit that the others do, in fact perhaps a bit more. The only reason that I dont use them unless I am in a Gunpowder Battle is because of the rain issue. When it rains and all that you have are arqs, you are in trouble. Thus I dont use them on a regular basis even though they are my favorite, next to Longbowmen of course.

Consul

[neal]

i start my arq at the front of my army and then as melee progresses i work them round the sides to use them to maximum efficiency, and when the enemy routs the arq just shoot the fleeing bodies down easily.

[ichi]

Arqs work well when they are valor 4 and higher - in SP this means placing them under a high valor Gen, in MP pumping them up. At V4 their morale and def stats make them almost as good as some infantry. Add armor to them to help them deal with missiles and add even more to their def stats.

Best on defense, they can push a tired, depleted unit past its rout point; en masse they can stop a cav charge or rush. Four of them seems to work best in a balanced army.

ichi

[Daveybaby]

On their own they are almost useless, but as part of a layered defence they are the final straw for many an attacking enemy.

If are defending and have a nicely defensible position (i.e. steep hill or bridge) then this approach works nicely

3 catapaults at the rear
3 archers in front of the catapaults
4 or 5 units of good spearmen in front of the archers.
2 units of arqs + 2 units of pav arbs along the front.

As long as your catapaults and arqs are high valour, then you can pretty much guarantee to rout any attacking unit before it reaches your front lines.

Any incoming enemy unit will be hit first by catapault fire, then as they get closer by combined archer and arb fire... and if they havent routed by then the arqs should make up their minds for them at short range.

If any unit does make it far enough, then retreat your arbs and arqs behind your spearmen. That wont happen very often though - to be honest you could almost do away with the spearmen. I've defended against fairly large armies and never actually had any of my units engage in melee combat.

Things only get tricky against very large armies (i.e. >2 stacks) you have to have enough archers/arbs/arqs in reserve to be able to keep routing enemy units in the 2nd and 3rd waves. This isnt often a problem though, as the AI usually sends units in drips and drabs after the initial assault is broken.

[Bezalel]

Arqs are very, very useful in multiplayer in late games. In single, they're next to worthless, imo, becuase the ai stinks anyways.

[ah_dut]

Arqs are Useless if it rains. they'll get beaten down to where they belong by hobilars for flip's sake. I mena i've tried it. They're good for some things like like bridge defense but will get slaughtered on flat ground. pump them up and they become very useful. Then they can fight(a bit) so only build them in MP if the circumstances go your way

[Peredhil]

I would usually choose handgunners over arquebusiers and use them to fire off a single volley before charging into melee as support troops. I think of them as FMAA that will survive a little longer but do less damage.

As for arqs, I agree with quite a lot said in this thread. They have the same defence as handgunners but 4 points less morale, so they need to be handled carefully. One of the units that need to be carefully micromanaged on the flanks, like, as one person said earlier on, long range cavalry.

[LestaT]

I try to use at least 2 arc but mostly I went for pavise arb or longbowmen if I'm playing English. Longbowmen are much faster reload than arq. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif