Arrow immunity of a Kataphraktoi leader

[Cebei]

I had this several times.. I pepper a group of Kataphraktoi with horse archers (usually turcoman horse), at first katas come down easily as if they have a -1 against arrow fire, then when they are reduced to one man nothing can stop him and usual scene is a single kataphraktos chasing down 60 turcoman horses (no need to tell turcomans cant do anything to katas on melee).. This happened in different occasions without any virtue of skilled last stand, health etc.. also they are not necessarily Byzantine uber emperors or heirs, rebel katas are like this too.. So is this a bug or a feature?

[Kristaps]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

Well, in my experience with the german archers against katas, it took 6 foot-archer units concentrating their fire on the general's unit to bring him down...

Also, when the target unit is full (40 Katas on the default unit size), it is much easier even for arrows that miss to hit something... When there is only one guy left standing, those missing arrows do hit the ground...

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

Probably, in your case, a factor is also the fact that the general (regardless of whether he is a prince or just a group leader with no stars) has higher health rating than your average rank-and-file soldier. It takes a couple 'killing blows' to finish him off. And arrows don't have lethality of 1 anyways...


http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (Kristaps @ Feb. 20 2004,21:16)]Probably, in your case, a factor is also the fact that the general (regardless of whether he is a prince or just a group leader with no stars) has higher health rating than your average rank-and-file soldier. It takes a couple 'killing blows' to finish him off. And arrows don't have lethality of 1 anyways...
I think this is even the case with non-general unit leaders. I remember from Shogun that a kensai general goes down just as fast as a normal kensai. Also, it seems a bit stupid that your second best general suddenly loses his protection just because your best general is in charge. Likewise, it is strange that heirs are much more vulnerable when daddy is leading the army.
So that is why I think normal unit leaders also have jedi-powers. You just don't notice it as easily.

[Morten viking]

I suspect those katas are wearing chainmail underwear http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

MV

[Mega Dux Bob]

Quote[/b] (Morten viking @ Feb. 20 2004,18:12)]I suspect those katas are wearing chainmail underwear http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

MV
They are; read a discription of Kat. armor.

[Martok]

Quote[/b] (Ludens @ Feb. 20 2004,14:49)]
Quote[/b] (Kristaps @ Feb. 20 2004,21:16)]Probably, in your case, a factor is also the fact that the general (regardless of whether he is a prince or just a group leader with no stars) has higher health rating than your average rank-and-file soldier. It takes a couple 'killing blows' to finish him off. And arrows don't have lethality of 1 anyways...
I think this is even the case with non-general unit leaders. I remember from Shogun that a kensai general goes down just as fast as a normal kensai. Also, it seems a bit stupid that your second best general suddenly loses his protection just because your best general is in charge. Likewise, it is strange that heirs are much more vulnerable when daddy is leading the army.
So that is why I think normal unit leaders also have jedi-powers. You just don't notice it as easily.
I wish I could remember where now, but I know a couple people here on the Org posted some stats: What they discovered is that whoever is commanding the battle automatically gets 20 hits points, or something to that effect. And this was just for regular generals; princes and faction leaders have even more (like 40 or so). So yes, there's a reason why generals always take so long to go down, even if their entire army only consists of a unit of peasants.

[Seven.the.Hun]

highranking boyar generals are really really tough to bring down too when their units have dwindled...very impressive

[Lacker]

I have the same gripe. I've taken generals down with archers before but it takes eons. I've seen ONE Ghulam Bodygaud general kill about 30 of my Feudal Spearman before he is felled. That drives me insane. I know movies tell us it should be this way but come on...all it takes is ONE arrow in the right spot, or ONE spear that he doesn't see comming and that's it.....right? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[motorhead]

hitpoints and generals link: http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin....;t=9867 (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=9867)

If you read the thread you'll see the worst way to kill a general is in melee. pin him with spears then pincushion him with xbows or javelins.

[el_slapper]

remembers me a 3-ways battle. The egyptians vs me & the spaniards. They fight together. Spaniards leave, while only the Ghulam king remains. Alone, he attacks. I fired at him, then ceased fire when he reaches my mercenary billmen. Badass billmen, with gold armor & silver weapons, though valour 0(2 with my general). He killed around 15, before dying.

I looked at the logfile, every billman still had 0 valour, minus one who had 6 that means this single ghulam was worth between 32 & 63 kills OK, it was the sultan...

[The_Emperor]

He may be Immune to Arrows but Morons with large rocks can still hurt him... I say grab some artillery and see how he likes a hail of rather large rocks (or cannonballs) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Kraxis]

el_slapper, a king is worth about 50 normal kills (not Peasants and a few others). Princes are pretty nice too, but less so.

[Cebei]

Yeah but Kata generals are especially difficult to kill. No surprise that they are fearsome..

[ChaosShade]

forget about arrow immunity http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-zzz.gif


i've had katatank leaders who could destroy entire formations of spears, swords, heavily cavalry...heck just about anything there is http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

get these guys with 8 command stars or so and a high base valour and they end up as one man army destroyers. It reminds me to STW Kensai http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Beirut]

I posted about this same thing a ways back.

I once had over 1000 Swiss Armoured Pikemen attacking an enemy general from all sides. He got away.

Another weird one was an enemy general, all by his lonesome on the other side of a bridge, and after several volleys by hundreds of longbowmen (thousands of arrows), I just gave up. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

[nightcrawlerblue]

I just had 1 Ghulam Bodyguard general destroy 17 Royal Knights (Including my prince). I've also had one destroy 20-30 spearmen It's rediculous No matter how good a general you are you won't last long with 10 spears poking out at you.

[katank]

boyars are also extremely OP.
I'm played an early nov. campaign recently and a warrior prince of mine singlehandedly took out two units of byz inf. and a unit of treb archers along with a unit of katanks he even killed a byz prince It was lovely to see the entire byz army rout off the field after another charge of my other units.
he didn't actually kill them all but routed them. I checked the log files and he killed something like 258 men http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

I'm thinking of killing off his two elder brothers even though they are great if having him as king would produce such a jedi bloodline.

[Aleksandr Nevsky]

Are you classifying arrow immunity with x-bow/arbalest immunity?

I've two arbalests supported by mounted crossbowmen kill Generals with concentrated fire...pretty consistently. They have been 9star kataphrakatoi generals, the King of Aragon, and a Pope just to name a few.

Of course I see what you mean though...regular arrows don't have that armor piercing...but they still seem to kill the other men in the units.

Even with large hails of longbow fire I have never killed a general...only with crossbow type bolts. It seems kind of strange.

[katank]

yeah, concentrated fire from 6 arbs is just about guaranteed to bring down a general.

in early though, you don't have much good AP missiles except from bribes so it can be hard.

I like the mtd xbows though and did have much success with them for thinning down royals to a few men before they hit my lines. I have only killed a few jedi princes/kings with them though. instead, the effect was to soften them up and it works pretty well.

[Kristaps]

I played a GA game with English a couple weeks ago. Had to defent my hard-won crusader provinces against hordes of Byzantines who had taken over the rest of Mid-East. A punch-pack of 6 archers on a hill consistently killed all high-star kata generals that were foolish enough to charge... :) This was on Expert, by the way. :)

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

On another note, even after generals' deaths my hobbies had a hard time routing trebizond archers... With +1 valor from Trebizond, armor upgrades and +30% AI combat bonus in expert mode (roughly, a bit less than +1 valor point) trebbies do kick some a...

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

[Nowake]

Quote[/b] (Cebei @ Feb. 20 2004,22:04)]I had this several times.. I pepper a group of Kataphraktoi with horse archers (usually turcoman horse), at first katas come down easily as if they have a -1 against arrow fire, then when they are reduced to one man nothing can stop him and usual scene is a single kataphraktos chasing down 60 turcoman horses (no need to tell turcomans cant do anything to katas on melee).. This happened in different occasions without any virtue of skilled last stand, health etc.. also they are not necessarily Byzantine uber emperors or heirs, rebel katas are like this too.. So is this a bug or a feature?
use arbs .. the last 4 will jump in the braces of death ..

[Yoko Kono]

personally i find pinning the front of the gen with a melee unit then fire a coupe of salvos from a single jobbagy or slav javellinman unit into their rear and they go down fast