In the red

[Imperial Buffoon]

I know there was a thread on good economic managment not so long ago. I wanted to see if anyone has something to say on what to do when it does go wrong.
My example: Turks in early/hard. I started expanding on south africa after crushing the egyptians and almos and defendin in cyrenacia vs the first two crusades. All the way I'm in a strong alliance with the Byz so I put ships in all the med and florins start flowing. Eventually, my network of emissaries see an opportunity as the French king dies without heirs, leaving almost all of the british isles and France to rebel.
Here is the strategic mistake, I take Provence, then Burgundy and then Lorraine. It makes no sense strategically but they are weak rebel provinces. At that time the french reemerge, intent on reconquering Burgundy which I defend successfully.
As soon as the french start banging on the door, the Byz declare war, sink a couple of my ships and wreck my trade-based economy. I manage to survive as I have loads of troops but after two turns of war, during which I've captured one Byz province, I'm deep in the red (about 6000) and the horde comes about.

I hope to be able to secure a cease fire from the Byz as they are now threatened in the steppes and constantinople, and I'll probably have to leave my french land after raizing everything to the ground.

Anyone have magic tricks to get out of poverty?

[Bob the Insane]

Got hordes of troops? Expand your lands if you can, this with bring in plunder and raise revenue. Raise taxes if you can get away with it. Win back the seas, if you trade links are broken then there is no point having your ships spread out collect them into fleets and sink the byz ships. The first prority is to get your overspend down to zero (how negative is it?)... From that point you can recover...

I have an interesting game (Turks/early as well) where the only land I have is Constantinople, but I have built a load of ships and have built loads of infrastructure and have loads of cash in the bank...

[R'as al Ghul]

Raise, Disband and withdraw

Hi Imperial Buffoon,
that's basically what you can do.

Some thoughts on this:
1. Raise any building that you don't need. Especially
in those European provinces you obviously took to early.
Take it as a successfull Anti-Crusade. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Make a save withdraw from Europe. Raise all buildings behind you. This gives you some florins and leaves nothing for the French. Come back later and see how they do.

2.Concentrate on the BYz's. Try to make peace with them or go all the way and take Istambul. It's yours anyway, isn't it? Try to destroy the Byz navy. Try to destroy the Shipyard they have.

3. Disband any units you don't need for garrisons or fighting. There are usually a lot units which haven't improved from the game start on but still cost you every turn. Disband all mercenaries. These are even more expensive.
4. Look for good farmlands in your secure provinces

5. Try to capture enemy Kings/nobles to ransom them back for good money.

A silly idea but worth trying:
If your army in Europe is strong enough, try to make your way back home on foot and meet with your support forces in Constantinople. It's often not that well guarded and the Byz certainly don't espect you to come through the back door. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-oops.gif
On your way you should destroy everything possible behind you, especially those chapter houses.
That's it so far....
Cheers

P.S: While typing this Bob the Insane already replied. I'd second his tip concerning the fleets.

[Imperial Buffoon]

Yeah, you're right.
Actually I should probably concertrate my sea power in the eastern med, as the Byz were my main trading partner anyway and I'm unlikely to get much trade income.
Overspend is -6000 with some -1500 a year (it could be worse if not for loads of prisoners made in battles with the byz).
I'll try withdrawing from one of my french provinces after razing it, who knows, I may get some free troops to help me fend off the horde...

[Aelwyn]

You could also go on a complete suicide attack across Europe if you have some Jihads. You'll probably need at least 5-6 of them. But what I'd do if you had the men was, hold onto the French provinces for a few years and start fighting your way back like someone said. Kill as many as you can and destroy everything. Create the Jihads to take back the French provinces. Move with as many men as possible up through to Constantinople. Leave mininum amounts of men behind to conquer each province and hold onto it. Let your Crusade men take the brunt of each fight, with the rest of your men supporting. Once you've conquered enough area to get you Constantinople and maybe some surrounding provinces, you can either continue and do as much damage as you can, or let your Jihads go it alone to either make it or be destroyed. At that point you should have enough land to be back on the positive side. Its a bit suicidal, but would be good fun. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Crash]

Quote[/b] (Aelwyn @ Feb. 23 2004,10:19)] Its a bit suicidal, but would be good fun. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Yes, I've been in the same situation a couple of times, and there is no way out of it except fighting your way out of it. It always happens when you have a trade based economy - the Byz always come after you soon or later.

Battles have positive effects on your revenue:

1. Your battle losses decrease your support costs
2. You can ransom prisoners
3. You get florins for taking the castle/province
4. You get to destroy all improvements in the captured province to raise money and deny them to the enemy when you abandon the province.
5. Your generals ratings go up from all your victories

Take advantage of your strong navy and invade the Byz from the sea, and then fight your way across his lands, ransoming prisoners, looting and pillaging along the way. After wiping out the Byz navy, gradually build up your trade again.

This is the time to show your stuff...