Best opening moves for the Danes

[The_678]

I'm just wondering what do you think are the best opening moves for the Danish. Also I obviously mean after you have a united scandinavia.

Every time I've played the Danes I always rush down to Kiev. Take Prussia, then Volhynia, then Kiev. This move would block the Hungarians, Poles, Germans and Byzantines from expanding into the valuable steppes. This also leaves me room to expand without fighting anybody.

This time though I am going to try and take the British Isles first, then play pretty much just as one would if they were English. Take France and move down through spain and North Africa to Egypt. And from there the world.

So, after you unite Scandinavia, where do you go? And if you do something other than unite scandinavia first mention that too.

[Thon]

well once you've got scandanavia i'd suggest building a navy to get trade income. longboats are cheap as hell and make perfect linking ships. iirc sweden and lithuania have excellent trade potential, denmark is pretty good as well.

as soon as the HRE gets into one or more wars descend upon them with a horde of vikings. you can take territory from them forever before the Pope gives you a warning. you could probably invade them if they arn't at war no prob(last i played danes was before i had VI and the good viking units).

you could also look into taking scotland thanks to your navy, which will make an excellent foothold for driving the english off their island after your done spanking the HRE.

[solypsist]

After taking Sweden and Norway (as everyone mentions) I usually go for a little bit of Russia; Lithuania to be precise. Mostly because I want to help out fight off the Mongol hordes, when the arrive.
But really, once you've got Sweden and enough ships to ensure your navy won't get sunk easily, the money really rolls in and you should be unstoppable no matter what you want to do by the middle of the High era.

[gaelic cowboy]

Take the infidel Sasanach out of it first those english deserve it for ruining the danish empire in blighty. The wool is handy and there are loads of good units around there.

[kawligia]

I vote to take England and move West to East through Europe. Conquering Europe with all those provences and borders is a tough task. Better to get it out of the way before somebody does it first and causes you all kinds of trouble later. Also It is better for the danes because they have a great unit advantage in the early era and the HRE will colapse into civil war if you don't wait to long to start taking them on. But if you try to go south from Denmark the poles or the Hungarians will backstab you and you'll be fighting on both fronts. Do it West to East and you have a secure border on the spanish front.

[The_678]

Well my english campaign turned out to be successful. For some reason I didn't even get a warning from the pope though. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif I now only have two well defended borders, Denmark and Wessex. I am pumping out longboats from Mercia and Northumbria and Huscarles from Denmark, Swededn and Norway. I am building Gallowglasses in Ireland and Royal Knights in Scotland. My next move will be down south. Tomorrow when I start playing again, I plan to attack and kill all of egypt. Should be no problem with all my Huscarles. This has turned out to be a very great start for my Danes and very fun. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

p.s. I am playing on Hard/Early

[el_slapper]

Ireland & Scotland. Those Clansmen & gallowglass make a real nice addition to your viking hordes - at least in early. After that, I usually attack any available reb province, especially further ones(got Valencia once). It helps limiting ships maintenance costs.

My tactics is to wait being attacked. As you begin smaller, the longer you grow without a true war, the better.

[Sociopsychoactive]

After uniting scandinavia pumping out boats is a necessity, but you really need saxony in order to go anywhere. I tend to sit an army on the border, refuse peace with the germans and take saxony first chance I get, then as soon as the backlash is dealt with try and mantain peace with them untill the holy roman empire falls apart (as it almost always does). With saxony you have a land bridge to prussia and then the entire steppe, without having to fight hungarians or polish for it. While it is still a litttle risky (you have to have an army in saxony to prevent your empire being split in two) the steppes are a valuable and relatively easy conquest. I hardly ever go west to the UK.

It's far easier to wait untill the hundred years war is over (the English and French have duked it out every game I've played) and then one will either go rebel, or one of them will dominate both england and france. If they go rebel gobble up the lands while maintaining peace, if one of them emerges victorious then build and start a war of atrition. With the amazingly powerfull viking units you can often kill 5 times as many units, meaning you spend little, and force them to spend loads.

The only flaw with all this is byzantium. If they resent you gobbling up the steepes before the horde arrive it's very hard to field an army from the under-developed steppe provinces. I try to sit back and let the turks or the hungarians attack the western roman empire, they don't last long if you help out your allies, even if it does drag you into a particularly nasty war.

Oh, and wipe out the novogrods. They are in too good a position to backstab you to be allowed to live http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[katank]

I agree with Sociopsychoactive. It's definitely good to grab saxony and it gives a nice landbridge, meaning that you can grab prussia and pomerania instead of the poles. getting the steppes is great. don't forget moldavia as avar nobles rule though other factions will likely get there before you.

don't be afraid to attack HRE or the Byz. They are both somewhat of a paper tiger early on. esp. the former as the 3 influence king means that after a few defeats, the country dissolves into civil war.
the byz are a bit harder but you can count on the egyptians and/or the turks on them and they can't spare much troops in the steppes.
Both their armies are late developers while your's is early. viks with only a fort and huscarles with keep level.

I also agree with the wiping out of the novgorods as the danes should be the only one with the vikings. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

raiding england and france is good policy for balance of power and gallows and clansman are made for desert combat.
I question the decision to use huscarles in the desert though as they will fry

[lancer63]

Sweden and Norway tru bribery if you can afford it. Then Saxony, Scotland, Ireland and Livonia (if playing GA. Next, well Either take the rest of the brittish isles or take the baltic coast. Both are good choices imo.

[rpasell]

I'm also currently in a campaign with the Danes (MedMod/Early/GA). I started out by taking Sweden, Norway, and Livonia. From there I pumped out ships, and defended myself until I could launch counter-attacks. I really didn't and don't have an expansionist attitude except when necessary. Saxony was a must though just for an extra unit producing province. Freisland, and Prussia are also good in the MedMod as they can also produce viking units.

One thing that surprised me: I thought only certain factions could build ships in the Med, and certain in the Atlantic. But that's not true, if you control a province with coast on either (providing the tech is there of course) you can build fleets, just can't move them past the Gulf of Cadiz either way.

[Thon]

thinking back on it, invading central europe like i did prolly wasn't the greatest strategic move. sooo many borders http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

but it paid off once 1205 rolled around and switzerland started pumping out their halbs

[Seven.the.Hun]

take all of scandinavia...norway/sweden/finland...prepare and take all the british isles across the north sea...prepare, then u have a great choice...novgorod, saxony, or flanders...who gets to be conquered next?... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
gotta go naval here too, keep all those enemy meddling ships outta the north...
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[Mouzafphaerre]

-
Almost all the time, there are some rebel provinces to buy around. So, uniting Scandinavia appears as the natural and instinctive first step. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I don't hurry for Finland though, not as much profit as Novgorod and Lithuania promise. Add Livonia and lastly Finland (don't let others take her), and the Baltic is almost secure.

Saxony, Pomerania and Prussia ar the second leg of a Dane expansion. After a couple lethal blows, I leave the Germans alone and make peace. Same valid for the filthy Russians. They make a nice paratoner for the Horde strike in the early. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

In my first (and only) Dane campaign, sacrificed to the no-heir syndrome, I replaced the historical German Empire and expanded east.

In between the two legs of the initial expansion and right afterwards, I spare a few decades for building up navy/trade/agriculture. Once the cash starts flowing in, I continue.

If I played a Dane campaign now, I would take a different path after securing the Baltic/North Sea and building up the navy: Look around and "colonize" in the coastal provinces with fair trade opportunities before running for a land empire. It has worked perfectly in my recent Sicilian campaign.
_

[Kulgan]

Get Ireland for gallowglasses and trade, your vikings are outdated before you know it.
Then you can go conquer pieces of land that have nice chokepoints, or pick on rich trade provinces ( outre-mere is really nice )

[Doug-Thompson]

Unlike everybody else, I don't take Sweden and Norway first. I do a "Viking blitz" and grab much of North Germany, then go back to Sweden and Norway when I start getting warnings from the Pope.

[katank]

I also played with doug-thompson's policy. My vikings can easily maul the HRE early on and gain influence and money for you. I would recommend against trying to hold more than saxony though. Just do enough raiding to cause a civil war. Saxony is your key to getting a reliable landbridge to the east and grabbing pomerania and prussia instead of the poles.

It's a nice chokepoint too.

The lands you have is not too rich and you can't set up trade fast enough so warring on the HRE should fund your efforts best and push your advantage in vikings.

[HopAlongBunny]

I do pretty much what everyone else suggests. Sweden too rich to pass up and has iron; Norway nice little trade good and v1 Vikings; the British Isles; nice trade from Northumbria, Clansmen from Scotland, Longbow from Wales, Gallows from Ireland. Safe and secure once you have Wessex.

Pumping out ships from England frees up Norway to get the vikings and you need lots of them :) The reason I go South is Jinettes; great light cav. With your vikings, those nice English troops and jinettes the desert is easy.

The Horde? Ignore or pick your opportunity. Your fleet lets you decide http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Kill'em all http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Crash]

I've played the Danes twice, and I am a little surprised that so many people have so much experience with the Danes.

It does seem more logical to go after Scotland/England/Wales/Ireland as the Danes, after securing Norway and Sweden, but in my games I decided to secure all the Baltic regions first, then take Novgorod, then Poland, adn then the British isles. My reasoning was that I should let the English, French and HRE beat each other up before I move in on them, but most importantly I wanted to build up my trade with the Engish in order to maximize my florin income. So I allied with them to maximize my trade with them.

The English eventually turned on me, and gave me the excuse to conquer them, but I did have a lot of trade going with them until then. It gave me the florins defeat their navy and vanquish their armies.

I guess there's lots of different ways to win with the Danes...

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[katank]

baltic first is my solution as otherwise the poles and the nov, occasionally the byz will get the region.

scotland is good though as it gives a nice toehold on the isles and ireland should be taken early for those great gallows.

[Chimpyang]

I went for Poland (and polish territory) as soon as I could as it's small (ish) country thats about as hard up as you are in the start game. This was after taking Scandanavia and Saxony.

[Suppiluliumas]

Definately go for the Baltic rim before you move against the English. There are lots of trade goods to be had and troop movement is a breeze assuming that you have a reasonable navy.

[Devastatin Dave]

Navy, navy, navy This is the key to the Danes. After securing Norway and Sweeden, the British Islands are the next step. Hopefully, the Brits have been excommunicated fighting the French. Flanders should be the next target, regardless of the threat of excommunication. With the huge amount of income, victory is yours.

[Nowake]

Quote[/b] (Devastatin' Dave @ Mar. 01 2004,10:32)]Navy, navy, navy This is the key to the Danes. After securing Norway and Sweeden, the British Islands are the next step. Hopefully, the Brits have been excommunicated fighting the French. Flanders should be the next target, regardless of the threat of excommunication. With the huge amount of income, victory is yours.
Well, not quite. Raiding the HRE is as much as profitable. And making the jonction into Flanders from both parts will help you reach Cordoba and Swabia in 10-20 turns.

[Kampfen]

In my only Danish campaign, after Sweden and Norway, a short period of building up naval trade to Gibraltar, then I took Saxony AND Franconia for a second iron ore province. Then I made peace with HRE and conquered the Novgorod. With my steppes front being Muscovy/Smolensk/Novgorod/Livonia, and the now very powerful Byzantine in Lithuania, I built up my reserves for a massive attack into Lithuania and two years after that an amphibious invasion into Constantinople Totally off guard, the Byz were split in two and the Hungarians and Turks kept them weakened while I moved on to finish the land gate at Kiev while divying up the Balkans with the Hungarians and Asia Minor with the Turks.

I bought VI after that and haven't played it since.

Short fronts and naval superiority are my priorities.

And why would anybody playing the Danish build anything other than longboats in Denmark? The one and two star admirals are essential for a successful naval strategy. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif

[katank]

Suppiluliumas is right about the baltic. The sheer amount of provinces that you can access with the baltic is amazing. The baltic sea can be your personal lake just as the black sea is that of the byz and the adriatic that of the italians.

kampfen, longboats from denmarks are great but after VI, I would also tech towards huscarles at the same time. after naval superiority is achieved, you would want to pump out huscarles. the kalmar union provinces are the only 3 that can produce huscarles which are simply great infantry and have very low reqs of only swordsmith and armourer, second only to varangians who have 1 more defense and armor IIRC.

[The_678]

One thing that is really cool about the Huscarls is that Armourer is a requirement. This makes their stats the same as VG's So essentially you are building Vg's with only a keep requirement. They stay good units for the whole games. Probably one of the best infantry is the game.

[Monk]

After locking down Sweden and Norway, you really have three choices; East, West, South.

East: To the East lies vast areas of unclaimed rebel lands, but aside from maybe four key provinces the East is vastly poor and can't support an Empire with vast forces. If you expand east you will come into Contact with the Rus, whose Boyars may be a problem if your not prepared. If you are able to deal with them you'll be dealing with the Byzantines, turks and Poles who can provide a variety of combatants in both army type and tactics. Not to mention the inevitable arrival of the Mongols.

West: Perhaps the best course to take is to sail west and invade England. Build up longboats and start trading with the surrounding lands, once you got enough florins build up a strong military. Then sail across the North sea and hit the English with everything you have, the pope will warn you so make sure you can take them out in two years. If you are successful then you will have the Rich British isles as your home as well as Scandinavia, with expansion into Ireland and France possible. Plus you are at no risk from the Golden Horde and have very good trade provinces.

South: Another choice is to go south and take the Fight to the Holy Roman Empire. at this time the HRE is usually excomed from their wars with France or Poland. You can take advantage of them easily as they will more than likely have a lax guard against your border seeing as how most their troops are on the front lines. You can cut through down into Switzerland if your luck and carve out a large portion of central Europe to add to your empire. Along with the Rebel lands along the Baltic you can create a wide realm, but the downside is you are now surrounded by potential enemies.

Most the time I go west, then i sail east to try to claim Novgorod.

[Aelwyn]

I'm playing as the Danes right now. Its annoying me though that my Longboats made in Denmark don't have the +1 valour bonus like they're supposed to. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[andrewt]

I moved to Lithuania, then started conquering all the provinces there. Polish got Kiev early in my game though, so I backstabbed them once I got all the others. The provinces there aren't really poor. Smolensk and Chernigov both have good farm income and some have decent farm income. Finland, Novgorod, Livonia, Lithunia, Prussia, Pomerania, Kiev and Khazar all have multiple trade goods and will give you lots of income. Better put a huge garrison in Livonia, however.

Boyars weren't really a problem since I rushed to Huscarles. They took care of the Boyars quite easily. The Polish were quite aggressive in my game so I got Moldavia quite late. Avar Nobles are very powerful cavalry for the early era and quite easy to get. Another reason to go there is Steppe Heavy Cavalry. I use these guys as my primary cavalry using the Danes. In fact, my armies right now are mostly Huscarles, Steppe Heavy Cavalry and some Avar Nobles.

I also use Slav Warriors as my garrisons. They are more expensive than peasants but they have the same support costs and can actually put up a fight.

[PseRamesses]

Since I always play GA-games and tend to roleplay all my games I usually play the Danes as in VI, raiding, raiding and raiding. For some reasin the Danes never gets x-commed.
This is usually my path of events the first 30 years:

1. Take Sweden and Norway while Denmark builds a keep and shipwright so you can pump out +1 valour longships because trade is the key to playing the Danes.
2. Take Saxony. HRE will accept peace swiftly since they are usually entagled on all fronts.
3. Take Pomerania, Prussia, Lithuania, Livonia and Finland.
I concentrate on build only farms, mines, ports etc in theese provinces.

So now you´re firmly set in the Baltics. You build ships in Denmark and troops in Norway and Sweden. I usually have one defending army in Denmark and one offensive army in Sweden ready to strike over the seas. Since all the Ostersea provinces only contains a fort and money upgrades you can easily leave them relatively undefended. Thus luring Novgorods and Poles to attack you. When they do, counterattack and loot their provinces, destroy infrastructure etc thus making a lot of money. Don´t forget to use you archers to shoot up houses, farmhouses, churches etc when in battle and during a siege since it will make a lot of pillaging income.
Since I like the English and they have never backstabbed me in any game after marrying into their royal family I tend to concentrate on raiding the rich French thus helping the English out on that front. Where I go from here is usually depending on events Good luck

[katank]

steppes are great.

don't grab all of it though, just the key ones like the nice ones on the coast for trade and a bunch of farm ones. take lith, livon, nov, fin, prussia, pomerania, khazar, kiev, and crimea for trade.

as mentioned, smolensk and chernigov are the best farming provinces around in the steppes with the latter providing steppe heavies.

moldavia for avar nobles.

kill the nov. their boyars can be nasty so use some sacrifice cav like steppe cav or alan mercs to tie them up so they no longer use HA tactics on you where you can bring up huscarles and make mince meat out of them.

the reason you shouldn't get all of the provinces is that some, like pereslavyl, is useless and go towards your province count which makes other factions jealous and also work for the excomm thing since you are catholic.

[Wishazu]

After uniting scandanavia i build up my trade links, sweden is very good for making money and troops. then buy loads of mercs back em up with some hardcore hevy inf then give a decent prince or general command and invade britain. i normally start in scotland and work my way down, make sure u wait untill the english are allready at war with france. then they easy to wipe out. This worked for me anyway. :)