Is it time for Honour and Ply under 8k

[FasT]

I just wonder what reaction i would get from this.
If most honourable plyers only ply comp under 8k now as PuZZ suggested to make units more balanced(YA prob)
Wouldnt it be nice to see all comps 8k or under knowing u will get a fairly fair battle?
Would all vets etc be happy with this?Or have many fallen in luv with High Honour YA with weapons and armour?
This is not a dig at anybody just a question on ur thoughts towards this matter.

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http://homepage.ntlworld.com/markuk/t.gif/Fast.gif
Grey Wolves
FastCub

[tootee]

When you play big game 3v3 4v4, this becomes only a small concern. Big games add more emphasis on being able to read the flow of things around you, and to make sound tactical decisions. Control skill is still essential, but the problem of any super unit dominating the game is not a major spoilsport for the game. I think for big game, as long as the koku is not too low, it is fun.

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tootee the goldfish,
headmaster of Shogun-Academy (http://shogun-academy.tripod.com)
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I will only play 8k from now on anyway.
It still enables the super YA but at least now I think the problem would be decreased.

Tera

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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[Toda Nebuchadnezzar]

Even offline, 8K is a great amount to plan a well balanced army. I never use super Ashi (mainly because i'm only ever Mongol) but still if I was Jap, I might look into it.

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He is the Messiah
No i'm not the Messiah
Only the true Messiah would deny it.
Alright then I am the Messiah.
HE IS THE MESSIAH HOORAY!!!

[BakaGaijin]

I like 7k games. I dunno why, I just do. I remember before I left playing a lot of sub-5k games. Those were damned fun! It's very well-balanced at the low end.

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"If your soul is imperfect, living will be difficult." -- Ryo Hayabusa, DOA2

"Hey, why are the enemy throwing their cookware at us?" *KABOOM* -- Thunderbomber sneak attack!

[Major Robert Dump]

I can dig it. 8000 for comp

[Whitey]

I long for the old 5000 koku days...

but 7000 koku is what I play with MI whenever I can...

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"Situation excellente. J'attaque!"

[AMPmortog]

I would be happy if all games went back to 5k where you have a chance to rout up 3 armies 1 by 1 in a chain rout using great skill. 10k can get annoying after sometime with those high honor ashi and a few high moral troops to keep the ashi from routing. 8k makes ashi less effective and shock troops can player a better role which is cool for me. The new players who rely on ashi,sams,musks and nag cav only in 10k games wouldn't be happy with the 8k games.

[tootee]

I wish I can play around 20k each for big games. The superYA effect should be gone since they peaked at 1600+ for H3W3A3. And harder for one side to chain-rout (yeah I dont like this phenomenon in big games) just because one army fell.

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tootee the goldfish,
headmaster of Shogun-Academy (http://shogun-academy.tripod.com)
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[Kocmoc]

seem we all agree on this matter, lets change.....

we started already with 8k...

koc

[Kas]

I always played the 10k on MI, because it was the "standard"

But I do agree...from now on all my 1v1 games will be 7 or 8k.

Kas

I am very happy of this - well done!

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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif

[Toda Nebuchadnezzar]

LOL Tera sounds like school teacher!


Anyway I would love to play a 99999koku match with 3 other people where we are all on ADSL. No rain and 120-man units. It would be like normal speed and really cool.


But still 7-8K is good.

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He is the Messiah
No i'm not the Messiah
Only the true Messiah would deny it.
Alright then I am the Messiah.
HE IS THE MESSIAH HOORAY!!!

[BarryNoDachi]

nice post FasT, i take it that the standard for all on-line games is now 8k, with this problem seemingly addressed can we talk about high honour ashis???

are high honour ashis acceptable? it seems to me that technically it is not cheating to play with them since everyone has the chance to pick them. however the general feeling i get is that it is 'unhonourable' to play with them and a lot of players do not pick them because of this. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

in an ideal world all mp games should be both honourable and fair http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

so along with the 8k rule maybe a rule for capping the honour of YA should be implemented too?

im sure that many of you are better qualified to suggest an improvement so please can you post your opinions http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
thanks in advance - barry http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)

[tootee]

I haven't use superYA for a mth, but I think we shouldn't label someone as unhonourable for using superYA. Although it's not historically correct, but it's fair gamewise ,as someone pointed out, you are free to use or dont use them. Also, its not like they are so super and dominating. I'm still beating armies with about 4-6 superYA. And I see players like AMP beating the hell out of these players http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif.

Its honourable and fair I feel. Dont't make restriction and label players as unhonourable - it may do the community a disservice in fact. It's good that most of us settle for 7-8k games, for what purpose? Not for the 'fairness' or 'being honorable' (in comp games as far as I'm concern, friendlies why bother?), but to improve gameplay and fun (at least that's what I assume is the objective of all these discussion).

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tootee the goldfish,
headmaster of Shogun-Academy (http://shogun-academy.tripod.com)
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[FasT]

Its about having a more balanced game http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gifthats all.
PuZZ3D stated to ply 8k and under for this,
if u want balance.Im just pointed the fact in here thats all,and how u feel about this?
Some good response though.
I wonder if it would be possible to put some sort of vote up here at the ORG on this issue?Just a thought.

FasT
Cub from the GREY WOLVES DEN.

[Kraellin]

when we did the testing for the 1.02 patch, we tested EVERYTHING at 7k. below 7d doesnt matter a whole lot as far as super units. above that and you start seeing the disparities. 8k isnt bad. 10k gets pretty obvious and above that it gets really lopsided.

one other solution we've been using lately is simply have folks cap their own honor of their units at H5 in any game over 8k. there also seems to be a gentlemen's agreement of 4 guns max....in most cases...and this is usually stated before buying one's units. it's become common courtesy to ask the host if their are any 'rules' for a given game. and as a courtesy, folks generally abide by the host's parameters. there is nothing set in stone here; it's just a gentlemen's agreement.

K.


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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

[Vanya]

I provide my Ashigaru with cocaine inported from a 'distant land'... they seem to love it and they don't mind getting chopped up and sliced open on the battlefield anymore. I even saw one laugh and point his finger at an enemy that had sliced open his belly... he was holding his intestines in one hand and giving the 'bird' to his enemy with the other. And after a little verbal 'humiliation', he wrapped his intestines around his head thinking it was a feather boa and proceeded to dance around the dead. The enemy was so infuriated by this display, that he cut off the Ashigaru's head... but the Ashigaru got the last laugh, for the sword sliced open the intestines around his neck, and since he had not emptied his bowels prior to the battle, the 'contents' gushed out all over the enemy samurai's face. He cursed while spitting the shit out of his mouth -- just long enough for another Ashigaru to pig-stick him from behind...

Super Ashigaru? I don't think this guy would be the poster boy...

[Puzz3D]

The game actually plays differently at 10K than is does at 7K. So, if you spend your time developing your tactics at 10K, you are loosing out on valuable experience at 7K. The main reason the suggested default was moved up from 5K to 7K was to be able to afford the new units, the upgrades, and the enhanced cavalry units. At 5K the average koku/unit is only 312 koku.

I wouldn't say super ashi are dishonorable, but they break the game. Guns tend to break the game as well. The way to control super ashi is with an honor=5 limit, and the guns are controlled with max=4, although, I think it should be max=2 on musk.

MizuYuuki ~~~

[MizuKokami]

the only thing i don't like about superashi...is that i can't kill them yet.(someday) http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif


Honor is a thing of the heart.

[1dread1lahll]

Nonsence; adjust your armies, there is no "honour" is being complacent, Nor any dishonour in working out the best solutions to complex problems, the pages of history are filled with great generals who made the correct adjustments before battle, and no-doubt the realm of the dead filled those who cry of the injustice of those changes........
Put in the effort... the solutions are there, and I dont mean limits.......

[BarryNoDachi]

i didn't mean to say that high honour YA are dishonourable only that if someone gets beaten by a player with a high amount of them they seem, in general, not to take the loss as well compared to playing someone without them.

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Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.totalwar.org/kenchikuka)