AI...

[Seven.the.Hun]

why should the AI always get the initiative??? oh blah...
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif

[Sasaki Kojiro]

It's hopelessly inefficient anyway http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Seven.the.Hun]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif indeed...poor AI, if it really were effecient, i'm left to wonder how hard it would be...with initiative and everything... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

[econ21]

I don't understand what you mean by the AI always getting the initiative - care to elucidate?

[R'as al Ghul]

Gah you're right.
Apart from that I'm clueless as Mr. Appleton.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

[Seven.the.Hun]

sorry for confusion, i just meant that u cannot do anything else after AI moves...u move stuff, then all other contries do things and u are stuck...u gotta settle for it, cant back off or reevaluate...tis like that every turn...player should have this advantage aswell at least every other year or 3, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif

[econ21]

Well, moves on the strategic map may look sequential but that is partly just presentation. The AI is supposed to be planning its strategic moves simultaneously with you - it's just you don't see them until after you have committed. However, I do believe that the AI does cheat a little. IIRC, this was pretty blatant in Shogun - you could see it by saving a game and trying different move. But it seems to be more subtle in MTW, so I am honestly not that sure how it works. The AI does sometimes seem to react to your move, but it does not always do it with ruthless efficiency - eg launching a Pearl Harbour type first strike by emptying your border provinces into the enemies land does not always expose them to the threat of counter-invasion. In Shogun, I recall always having to make sure I had the strength to defend my border provinces as well as invade theirs - which could be very challenging (requires 2x as many men).

I would be very interested to hear more about how the strategic AI cheats though, although perhaps it is best not to inquire too much in order to avoid spoiling the challenge of the game.

[nedfour]

God's bonesthis is really starting to bug me....and so little discussion of it toothis is absolutely central to why the game ,whilst well nigh perfect in every other way , ends up as a real 'kick the monitor' special.picture the scene...you've spent an age building up the wealth to hire the mercs , you've tramped your forces from one end of the kingdom to the other to get them in place , you've picked the province where the AI has left itself dangerously weak , you've waited for the enemy's king to die so that his nervous young heir wont be able to cope with the hordes you're about to unleash across his frontier.....you launch the attack.....glory beckons.....bur what's this?.....dozens of enemy armies materialise from thin air...there's a positive zipping of little chessmen across the map , too quick for you to see if they've sneakily hopped across more than one province , and up pops your favourite little box....you know , the one that says...'your province has been invaded.total size of enemy forces..67,000,000.total size of your forces..10.oh yeah , and here's the best bid buddy...you gotta fight us NOW , like it or nor....yeah , you can forget your carefully planned invasion....inititative?..what's that?'....welcome to the strategy -free world of MTW....

[Seven.the.Hun]

total enemy forces...67million, total size your forces...10
OUCH, my tongue would definetly fall out for that one... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif
dont worry, i could hold them off
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

[lancer63]

Quote[/b] (nedfour @ Feb. 26 2004,05:52)]... and up pops your favourite little box....you know , the one that says...'your province has been invaded.total size of enemy forces..67,000,000.total size of your forces..10.oh yeah , and here's the best bid buddy...you gotta fight us NOW , like it or nor....yeah , you can forget your carefully planned invasion....inititative?..what's that?'....welcome to the strategy -free world of MTW....
Now, be frank Nedfour that's why the game's so good. The only certain thing about this game is that you can't be certain of anything. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[Seven.the.Hun]

Quote[/b] (lancer63 @ Feb. 26 2004,11:31)]
Now, be frank Nedfour that's why the game's so good. The only certain thing about this game is that you can't be certain of anything. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif[/QUOTE]
well i can be certain of one thing...VICTORY OR DEATH mauahahahha http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[katank]

actually you have the initiative. You can cheat by calling off attacks to defend against an enemy invasion so you have more initiative.
I certainly don't do this but it's possible so you actually have more initiative than the AI in that aspect.

[nedfour]

Fair point ,Katank , but my gripe still remains.why should i have to call off my invasion to deal with the AI's counter-invasion....?and why can't i do it when the AI attacks me?like i said ,the AI always retains the initiative....strategically , at least , you ALWAYS have to fight on the AI's terms...its a shame , because in terms of game dynamics , its an absolutely huge flaw.

[Eastside Character]

Human player can have all the initiative he needs, if he can only predict the AI moves. Spies help a lot obviously. Almost every war Im fighting in my campaigns is started by me. I have initiative.

Regards,
EC

[gaijinalways]

Depends on who controls the borders and the seas. If you later control both, generally the only unknown is reemerging factions. I had the Swiss reemerge after 100 something years, and the Spanish. Of course, sometimes you leave a faction with one province so that they can't reemerge (though sometimes another AI delivers the coup de grace)but this is the only major problem I have with the AI.

[nedfour]

Eastside and Gaijin...what you say is true , up to a point.you can have all the spies you want , and obviously that negates any 'armies popping up from nowhere' so to speak , but that's just medieval military intelligence .more precisely put , my point is this;if i amass a large force and strike at a province that is weakly defended by the AI (or even strongly for that matter),there is no strategic imperative for the AI to defend that province (although often it does).the problem is this;the AI can blithely ignore the strategic problem it finds itself with , and counterattack me in another province , leaving itself the next turn to deal with my initial invasion.i am then obliged to fight on the AI's terms in a region where i do not choose to.it seems to me that , since i launched the invasion of Province A,then strategically , the onus is on the AI to defend that province , and not to ignore its problem and counterattack me in Province B,and forcing me to fight in Province B on the AI's terms..None of this would be an issue if i was allowed the same strategic flexibility that the AI allows itself , in other words , if the AI atacks me in Province A, i should be able to ignore that attack until later , and counterattack in Province B...
medieval generals were , more often than not , tactically naive and strategically inept , but even they understood the fundamental principle that the ATTACKER has the initiative......whew...here endeth the rant..