Stupid Velites, Hastati

[Herodotus]

Ive just been looking at the pictures and descriptions of the units at Rome: Total War.
What are they doing? Velites are the youngest men not the Hastati. Sure the Velites were lightly armed but they were not some sort of specialist unit, they were young men learning the ways of war in the safest way possible: skirmishing. They should have no special abilities as they are rookies. On the subject of abilities why should Velites and Triarii have sapping capability but not Hastati? Velites become Hastati and Hastati become Triarii, so why should they temporarily forget their skills?
If I had my way Velites, Hastati and Triarii would not be seperate units, they would be one unit type that would be classed Velites, Hastati or Triarii depending on the age/experience of its men.
Lastly I want to say how stupid the Velite looks wearing a wolfs pelt on his head. Velites wore helmets not pelts. I'm pretty sure Pelts were one of the many rewards for excellence in combat, but it would be doubtdul that many Velites wore such pelts.

[Catiline]

agreed on most points, except that last one. Polybius 6.22 specifically states 'THey also wear a plain helmetwhich is sometimes covered by a piece of wolfskin or something similar, which serves both to protect and to identify hte soldier; this enables the officers to recognize the man and observe whether or not he shows courage in the face of danger.'

Doesn't sound much like an award for bravery does it.

[shingenmitch2]

Well I agree essentially, but this goes to the heart of CA's upgrade strategy.

I've had real probs with the way it was done of MTW/VI. With unlimited experience for individual unit types ( Valor 0-9) making lowly guys more impressive than elites.

I think upgrade from experience should be as u explain above. U buy the "crap" unit it gains experience, and instead of gaining "valor/armor/weap" upgrades, when it hits a certain threshold, it morphs into the next stage of infantry development... thus the velites to Hast, to princip to Triarii would be the evolution. Perhaps within each unit there could be 3 levels of experience --- noob, average, vet -- but the vet of a lower unit should only be as good as a noob of the next better unit TYPE.

[Nelson]

I have always suspected that wealth was a greater influence concerning where a man wound up in a legion than age. The youngest men would tend to have less wealth anyway would they not? Would a young man of great wealth start in the velites? I doubt it.

[shingenmitch2]

lol, no if you were really wealthy, you'd be commanding the legion. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

I understand in absolute historical terms the above model isn't correct. However for a game that is attempting to simulate experience, training and equipment upgrades it is a more elegant and realistic solution than what we have.

[RisingSun]

They aren't really "Special abilities" per se. They are more like "grunt abilities". It doesn't take a lot of skill to dig some tunnels, etc. Also, the Hastati probably would do less sapping etc than the velites or Triarii. The Triarii were often relegated to guard duty, as many fo you well know, and the velites did not have an extremely important role in the battle, so naturally soem of their energy could be expended in digging things and such while the Hastati would rather be kept fresh for the battle, as they fought for the longest time, no?

[Herodotus]

Young Men of outstanding wealth/power started their career as a contubernalis (I think thats how its spelt) a junior officer of sorts.

[Nowake]

Quote[/b] (Herodotus @ Mar. 02 2004,15:31)]Young Men of outstanding wealth/power started their career as a contubernalis (I think thats how its spelt) a junior officer of sorts.
The contubernalii acted as mesengers between the generals and his direct subordonates.

[shingenmitch2]

lol, u guys are great...

no off-hand remark goes unpunished

At least even Herod get's his remarks clarified...

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[MiniKiller]

Quote[/b] (Catiline @ Feb. 26 2004,04:20)]Doesn't sound much like an award for bravery does it.
yes it does, it makes u stand out and others will simple see whats on ur helmet and follow u over someone with a plain helemt.

its sorta like pride stickers in college football.

[Catiline]

You missed the point. I was saying it doesn't sound like it was an award, but that they wore it before they were brave to distinguish themselves when they were or to enable the officers t osee who wasn't.