Multiplayer and Billmen

[Vexilles]

I just recently started playing VI multiplayer for the 1st time and im pleased with the added challenge of facing other people. Ive played several very good games but in the majority i played i kinda felt like i was controlling both armys.

Ive done very well so far being undefeated in my 1st 10 battles only routeing in 1(my 1st) but my ally defeated my opponent any way, so i was hoping that if any of the good players out there would be willing to play a battle or 2, cause id really like 2 gage how good i am, i wanna know if im a decent player or if my opponents were just awful, plus id be honored to have my ass handed 2 me by a good player. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

And my other topic BILLMEN
man is it just me or are these guys outstanding on multiplayer? I mean there not overly expensive, there pretty fast they take care of swordsmen most catholic spearmen and all cav. Ive even found them very cost effective vs cfks, SAP and VGs, There armor is light so it makes them effective vs other polearm troops like halbrediers who have heavy armor. They also perform pretty well in the dessert. I know there weak vs missle units, but when u got long bows keepin the enemy archers covered they dont seem 2 have much 2 worry about.

These guys r a mainstay in my armys and im wonderin wat foot troops i should keep them away from, cause i just have yet to come up against an enemy infantry unit that had a big advantage vs my wonderful billmen.

imho these guys rock http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Kulgan]

Some statistics:

Billmen:
Cost 300
Charge 2
Melee 2
Defence 2
Armour 3

CMAA:
Cost 275
Charge 3
Melee 4
Defence 3
Armour 4

AUM:
Cost 200
Charge 3
Melee 3
Defence 3
Armour 4

FMAA:
Cost 150
Charge 3
Melee 3
Defence 2
Armour 3

Conclusion: in theory these 3 swordsmen can beat your billmen easily, CMAA and AUM are simply better and you can upgrade them a bit for the same price while you can upgrade the cheap FMAA a lot ( weapon and maybe valour )
The 4 armour gives you +1 attack I think? not sure, if I'm wrong please correct me http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

As long as your opponent doesn't spends his extra money on armour he can beat you head on.

[The_Emperor]

I think your Billmen defence stat is incorrect. And you've missed out the all-important Morale stats and Bonuses.

Ok, lets review the stats again. (using the army builder)

Billmen Valour 0.
Cost 300
Charge 2
Attack 2* (5 against Cav)
Defence 4 (5 against Cav)
Armour 3
Morale 2

* = Armour Piercing Attack

Chivalric MAA Valour 0.
Cost 250
Charge 3
Attack 4
Defence 4
Armour 5
Morale 4

Feudal MAA Valour 0.
Cost 175
Charge 3
Attack 3
Defence 4
Armour 5
Morale 2

Alright now Billmen do have worse stats when fighting MAA one on one, however they do have an armour piercing attack which the MAA do not have.

Many people in Multiplayer try to get their armies up to at least Morale 8 and for Billmen it is more expensive.

Chivalric MAA Valour 2.
Cost 723
Charge 3
Attack 6
Defence 6
Armour 5
Morale 8

Feudals like Billmen have to get to valour 3 to catch up to the same morale level.

Feudal MAA Valour 3.
Cost 860
Charge 3
Attack 6
Defence 7
Armour 5
Morale 8

Billmen Valour 3.
Cost 1,474
Charge 2
Attack 5* (8 against Cav)
Defence 7 (8 against Cav)
Armour 3
Morale 8

As you can see Billmen are a lot more expensive to bring up to the same level as upgraded Men At Arms. However their stats against Cavalry are formidible at this point.

I suppose you could use Billmen at Valour 2.

Billmen Valour 2.
Cost 867
Charge 2
Attack 4* (7 against Cav)
Defence 6 (7 against Cav)
Armour 3
Morale 6

This is the more economical option, but with a base Morale of 6 when upgraded Men At Arms at the same price have a Morale of 8, they will most probably be the first ones to run

Ultimately Billmen are great against Knights with their Armour Piercing Attack and Bonuses in Attack and Defence against Cavalry, but against Men At Arms they will fall.

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

Billmen; interesting folkloric waste of money. You will be better off with Militia Sergeant (which by the way is missing in those comparison chart).

But at least it looks good, and sned a fun message; hey I don't play with an optimal army I got billmen and anticavalry unit

So, I'll definitly take a couple, for the fun, look good factor.

But if you want efficiency, forget them.

Louis,

[The_Emperor]

Ok Militia SGTs.

Militia SGTs Valour 0.
Cost 150
Charge 4
Attack 2*
Defence 3
Armour 3
Morale 0

Lower Base Morale than Billmen, so in theory they need upgrading to be at least Valour 4 if you want to get a Morale value of 8.

Militia SGTs Valour 4.
Cost 1,253
Charge 4
Attack 6*
Defence 7
Armour 3
Morale 8

Comes close to the Valour 3 Billmen in terms of cost but doesn't have the same Anti-Cavalry Bonuses, but are those anti-cav bonuses worth over 200 florins?

Militia SGTs Valour 3.
Cost 737
Charge 4
Attack 5*
Defence 6
Armour 3
Morale 6

At Valour 3 they become cheaper than upgraded FMAA but again like Billmen at the expense of Morale...

[Gregoshi]

Through the battlefield littered with stats - dead and alive - I say Greetings Vexilles and welcome to our forums http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif Unlike these stats, hopefully your days aren't numbered here.

[ichi]

Welcome to The Org Vexilles http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Excellent first post. Can't wait to meet you on the field, sounds like you're gonna be fun and do well.

The Emperor laid out a very nice explanation for VI, and, as always, Louis hit the nail on the head.

I'm using a Papal army with V1 Swiss Halbs for anti-cav. I find Bills to be quite good against Knights, but vulnerable to missile fire. IMO they are too expensive for 10K MP games.

But if you are having success with Bills, by all means you should keep proving the stats wrong.

ichi

[Vexilles]

Thank you all for the warm welcomes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Ive been lookin at the replys and i checked wat u guys were
sayin with the game, i never realised b4 how ffk fmaa and cmaa were cheaper then billmen. Thx to yur replys i now only use 1-2 units of billmen to destroy the enemy cavalry and ive added an extra maa to my line up.

About the maa's beating billmen, ive yet to see maa's route my billmen. Im not doubting the statistics at all but i never see anyone try and counter my billmen with maas.

I also found something rather interesting, in low florin games like 10 or 12k Valour 4 highlanders (which i like to usse in the dessert and to counter polearm units) are vicious, i just last night watched my 3 units of highlanders smash into the flank of 2 Varangian Guards and almost immediatly put them to flight http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-glasses2.gif
do u guys find them useful?

And 1 more qquestion, in low florin 10-12k games wat type of armys better, 1 with like gothics and jhi at valour 1 or o, or armys of more average troops but with valour of 3 or 4? (i use high valour armies but i wanna know if i should be getting low valour elites instead of high valour average troops)

ty for the current replys and any future 1s http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

and i hope ill be able to play some of you sometime :)

[Clips]

If you ever want a game online dude ill give ya one :P just pm me in game ill vbe online im sure hehe i always am :P

[Vexilles]

Ok all u experts at multi player, I need to know wats the best way to counter gothic foot knights as the english, i mean these guys r absolute tanks, my billmen seem to be able 2 kill about half of them b4 they route and i try to flank them as mucch as possible. So wat would be the most cost effective way of dealing with these killer units as the english

Vexilles

[Suppiluliumas]

Concentrated longbow fire could only help the situation.

[Aelwyn]

Quote[/b] (Vexilles @ Feb. 29 2004,19:23)]Ok all u experts at multi player, I need to know wats the best way to counter gothic foot knights as the english, i mean these guys r absolute tanks, my billmen seem to be able 2 kill about half of them b4 they route and i try to flank them as mucch as possible. So wat would be the most cost effective way of dealing with these killer units as the english

Vexilles
They only have 40 men, so if you're not playing at say, 99k or basically a high amount of money, most swords and axe units should do the trick. The Gothics have a lot of armour, so upgraded armour piercing units do nicely. v4 Militia sergs will do the trick head on, so long as the Gothics aren't really upgraded. And yes, Billmen are great vs cavs, but I wouldn't recommend them vs sword units.