View Full Version : General's death and battlefield valour
Imperial Buffoon
03-02-2004, 16:19
Hi,
I'm about to fight a battle I'm almost sure to lose as the Turks in Armenia trying to fend-off a 3000 or so Mongol invasion with a depleted army.
My question is (and if the answer is RTFM, apologies, don't have it with me at the time ... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif ) whether once you kill the general, the battlefield valour increase is eliminated or not.
In this case, the attacking general has 4stars so most of his units will have battlefield valour 2, does it go down to 0/1 if I kill the general or do I only get a moral effect?
IB
The_Emperor
03-02-2004, 16:34
I think its only the Morale effect. (-8 for the initial shock of his death, -2 for the rest of the battle)
If it does effect valour then I have yet to see it. Arrantly you can see unit valour by counting the number of smaller flags the unit carries (not including the main banner)
it doesn't affect valour at all. I have kept good count of enemy units' flags and they don't seem to go down at all went their general dies.
(I'm always looking hard at their units at that time to usually order a major frontal charge in order to take advantage of the -8 morale penalty and break their line.)
Ehm?
When your general dies all his bonusses which given by V&V's (not entirely sure about this one, but think it's also the case with V&V's) or commandstars will be gone. So when your, for example, 6 star general dies all your units will lose the added 3 valour bonus they got from the general.
Imperial Buffoon
03-02-2004, 18:34
Quote[/b] ([DnC] @ Mar. 02 2004,11:18)]When your general dies all his bonusses which given by V&V's (not entirely sure about this one, but think it's also the case with V&V's) or commandstars will be gone.
I'll have to test that, I'd forgotten about the V&V's bonuses/penalties but it's true that in any case they should be treated the same. Otherwise you would actually want to kill your general if he has lots of stars but bad moral vices ... hmmm the name of one of my current Turkish generals somehow comes to mind http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-surprised.gif he may not live to see his grandchildren.. just as a test, of course.
Well I'm positive it's like that considering I've seen it many times Besides I've noticed that after the death of the enemy general the troops are a lot less tough and I think that's not only because of the morale penalty.
Knight_Yellow
03-02-2004, 19:16
My elite 13 valour highlander general and 10 of his fellow units charge a catapult.
rock lands on his head.
my army loses a total of 60 valour and get raped by hvy cav.
Yes I can see the valor drop in the screen, don't have to count flag
But I don't know what if the general flee, withdraw off map. The valor number stay the same in the screen, but someone here will say otherwise
The valour will indeed stay the same (at least I have never noticed a drop), but you're troops will get a morale penalty (can depend per unit? Disciplined and/or Elite troops don't get that penalty or do they?).
Hetman_Koronny
03-03-2004, 09:11
Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ Mar. 02 2004,09:34)]Arrantly you can see unit valour by counting the number of smaller flags the unit carries (not including the main banner)
*bows*
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-stunned.gif
Is thaaat soooo? Damn, why hasn't anyone told me before? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Quote[/b] (Kaboom @ Mar. 02 2004,23:59)]Yes I can see the valor drop in the screen, don't have to count flag
H o l d on. I thought that didn't work et al. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif
*bows*
What? You see your unit valor on the screen, don't you. You just don't see enemies' ones, except counting flags We may wish to see the enemy moral-fatige,armor, weapon upgrade too.
Hetman_Koronny
03-03-2004, 15:29
*bows*
Sorry, my fault.
For whatever reason when quoting you I was thinking of morale instead of valor. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
*bows*
Knight_Yellow
03-03-2004, 17:00
When your general died there IS a valour drop for your army.
Only good command generals though since they add 4-5 valour to their men anyway.
Kristaps
03-03-2004, 20:29
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif
well, if you as player lose a general who has more than 1 star you WILL SEE valor drop for all your units on the field... the valor drops to a level where it should be for a zero-star general. unless, the AI is guided by different rules, there should be analogue drop on their side given their loss of a >1 star general.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
It depends on the command rating of your next highest unit commanderdoesn't it?? So if you had a 7* general die but your next highest commander was a 6* then the valour bonus would still be +3 innit
you keep 2 good generals in the same army? that's risky
Quote[/b] (maestro @ Mar. 04 2004,18:21)]It depends on the command rating of your next highest unit commanderdoesn't it?? So if you had a 7* general die but your next highest commander was a 6* then the valour bonus would still be +3 innit
Longjohn has said that there is no 'second in command' in battles, so your reasoning does not apply. I am unable to find the thread where you can read this, but I have a link to a recent post where Longjohn was quoted: Strange retreats (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=15964).
Made possible by Motorhead http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif .
Tribesman
03-07-2004, 23:09
I just had a battle against the horde , when their 5* general died the other units that I was watching lost 2 valour flags .
Imperial Buffoon
03-09-2004, 16:12
Yes, I saw the same in mine - it wasn't enough to keep the horde at bay though -.
So in summary:
- yes, once the general dies, the rest of the battle is fought as if with a 0-star general.
- in Longjohn's quote (see Strange retreats (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=15964) post), it says that some V&V's still have effect. I suppose it's the ones that have an effect on morale but haven't checked that yet.
IB
Quote[/b] (Ludens @ Mar. 06 2004,13:54)]
Quote[/b] (maestro @ Mar. 04 2004,18:21)]It depends on the command rating of your next highest unit commanderdoesn't it?? So if you had a 7* general die but your next highest commander was a 6* then the valour bonus would still be +3 innit
Longjohn has said that there is no 'second in command' in battles, so your reasoning does not apply. I am unable to find the thread where you can read this, but I have a link to a recent post where Longjohn was quoted: Strange retreats (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=15964).
Made possible by Motorhead http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif .
K - I may well be mistaken - I thought I'd read it in the manual but, to be honest, I haven't actually bothered to check.. If I've mislead - my apologies http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Quote[/b] (maestro @ Mar. 09 2004,18:05)]K - I may well be mistaken - I thought I'd read it in the manual but, to be honest, I haven't actually bothered to check. If I've mislead - my apologies http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Doesn't matter. We all make mistakes.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
Kristaps
03-09-2004, 23:02
Quote[/b] (maestro @ Mar. 09 2004,11:05)]K - I may well be mistaken - I thought I'd read it in the manual but, to be honest, I haven't actually bothered to check.. If I've mislead - my apologies http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif
actually, i've read the same thing in a manual of sorts... however, it does not apply in the game. the engine does not recognize 'the second in command'... ;(
another feature, which has actually appeared with the vikings expansion, applies when your king has a lower command rating than some other unit in your army. in this case (applies only if you have reinforcements), if you move a single unit in your army (i.e., raise it from the screen to move to reinforcements or vice versa) in the pre-battle screen, the higher star general will take the command away from the king. nevertheless, the battle results give v & v's and command rating to the king not the real general in the field ;)
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/handball.gif
there is defeinitely no second in command for the game though perhaps this can be implemented in Rome TW.
as for Kristap's tip on king thing in VI, this is quite true and you can exploit it to get some good V&V's for your king and rack up victories for him. Sure this isn't fair but who's gonna argue with the king? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
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