Cavalry charging and then pulling away

[biguth dickuth]

In the TC vids i often hear the Nuesbacher guy saying "don't let the cavalry get bogged down". I know that, historicaly, heavy cavalry like knights would charge and then pull back and charge again and again e.t.c.

Now, every time i tried to do that in MTW, only about half of the horsemen pulls back but the rest remain engaged. Plus, they suffer a moral penalty for turning their backs to the enemy and they start dying with a faster rate.
Thus, i have not found yet a way to use the cavalry the way it was really used (hitting the weak spots and then pulling back to hit again somewhere else).

I've got two questions:
-Has anyone managed to do that in MTW?
-Do you know if that feature will be included in Rome TW and we'll be able to pull our cavalry from the melee?

[spmetla]

The only good method for that that I've found is to cycle them between loose and close formation, the ones not engaged pull out and then I put them in close and the charge back in. Don't know if this affects moral but it works for me.

[Togakure]

In Shogun battles online, what you describe is executed in almost every game I play with veterans. Wolf_Kansuke (*bows*) is superb with this technique. In a game the other day I sent nag cav to repel his nag cav that were repelling my cav archers. As soon as I'd pull my nag cavs back he'd re-charge them with his. He did this 3 times in a span of 30 seconds (*bows again*).

I have not played MTW online because my PC is just not up to it. Are cav in MTW that different? Or does the game play differently? I'm very curious about this.

[spmetla]

One major problem with cavalry in MTW is that they are in units of 40 while everything else is 100(spearment) or 60(swordsmen/archers). I modded my game so that everything is at 60 units, balanced the game out a lot.

[squippy]

I find the best way to do it is to provide backup, ideally infantry/swords. That is, if the cav are bogged down against infantry, if your allied infantry come up, they can relieve the pressure by filling the frontage as the cav move out, intercepting the chasers. But I still expect to take losses in this withdrawal.

[CBR]

Quote[/b] (TogakureOjonin @ Mar. 03 2004,02:21)]I have not played MTW online because my PC is just not up to it. Are cav in MTW that different? Or does the game play differently? I'm very curious about this.
I have only played very few MI battles online (and only after I got MTW) but my experience is that its nearly impossible to move away with a cavalry unit after it has engaged. Its easier in MTW although still can be difficult.

You can do hit and run attacks with light/fast cavalry. A quick attack to get some kills with the charge bonus and then run away. You have to do be quick though.



Historically Im not so sure that heavy cavalry would do repeated charges against a target. Not if it actually charged home.

There are stories about cavalry charging infantry formations several times but they pierced it without destroying it and then went for it again.

Sometimes its a failed charge where the cavalry stops before contact, regroups and try again. Main reason would be morale as the riders didnt dare to hit the pikes.

If its a wide front main attack that hit but doesnt rout the infantry right away then there would be a melee. The fighting would be severe and both sides could win although good infantry with polearms IMO would have an advantage. Of course the cavalry might try and get away if things somehow didnt feel the way it should be.


If we look at MTW then its easier to disengage from enemy spears that are in hold formation compared to sword/polearms that are engage at will. The more intermingled the melee is the higher losses to the cavalry if they want to disengage. In a way thats pretty realistic even if the battle/morale mechanics in this game is a bit simple.



So whats the lesson?

Forget all about fancy stuff like pulling back. Mount up, couch your lance and spur the horse. Charge home as if there was no tomorrow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif


CBR

[TonkaToys]

Quote[/b] (CBR @ Mar. 03 2004,13:21)]Forget all about fancy stuff like pulling back. Mount up, couch your lance and spur the horse. Charge home as if there was no tomorrow http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif
Notwithstanding CBR's good advice, there was a post some time back that suggested sticking your engaged cavalry on hold position and hold formation, then single-clicking away to draw them out of battle, before sticking them back onto CHARGE. Froggy was going to add it to her beginners' guide I think, but I'm afraid I can't remember who originally posted it or where
(Brain like a sieve)

[TonkaToys]

Quote[/b] ]
(From BrutalDlx in Main Hall / Cavalry Recharges or something)
Well, just click correctly and repeatedly. All the other aforementioned hints do help, but if you need to disengage rather quickly, do what most MP players do in that situation.. issue the withdraw command (Ctrl-w I believe it is), this usually makes your cav run away from the enemy real quickly, but you have to stop them with backspace or another move command and also keep attention that they don't run into another enemy that is lining up behind their backs.

Found this one, will try it tonight.

[CBR]

In theory the withdraw command is good but I have very mixed experiences with it. Sometimes the unit dosnt move straight away from the enemy. I still manually move them away. Using loose formation might work too but havent tried it.


CBR

[biguth dickuth]

You guys have given me some interesting piece of advice. Thanks a lot for sharing your experience...

Before posting this question, i usually used some nearby spare unit of my infantry to strike the enemy infantry that holds my cavalry and help it disengage, as squippy advised me to do. But i did take losses, sometimes great ones.
Now i guess i'll try some of the hints mentioned here and see if i can make them work for me...

Anyway, thanks again http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[The Wizard]

What the others said. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

But, anyway, isn't this thread better suited to the Main Hall? Just checking http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif



~Wiz

[the Count of Flanders]

Quote[/b] (squippy @ Mar. 03 2004,03:38)]I find the best way to do it is to provide backup, ideally infantry/swords. That is, if the cav are bogged down against infantry, if your allied infantry come up, they can relieve the pressure by filling the frontage as the cav move out, intercepting the chasers. But I still expect to take losses in this withdrawal.
That's how they did it in the middle ages. Your infantry covers your cavalry regroup, whacking down disorganised chasers.