single-player campaign question

[Hasuike_Kaemon]

Hi, I just started playin this game...very addictive. Just one thing seems odd, though. Why is it that in single player full-campaign, the enemy is given an extra move when defending? I notice that the enemy has a chance to move in reinforcements, or even move into the province my advancing troops just left, before he defends my attack. When I am attacked, I can do nothing but defend with the troops garrisoned in the defending province.

Was this done for a reason? I think it's a bit unrealistic that the enemy could ship reinforcements over from distant ports so quickly! It puts a real advantage in the AI's corner.

I'm not complaining, just trying to figure out the "flow" of the game.

[Dionysus9]

This seems to be just part of the game, and I think it was a "quickfix" for AI problems that they were having (at least it seems like it). It certainly makes the game much more difficult, and without the addedd difficulty I think it would be too easy even in expert mode.

So, just be content that you have free-will and an consciousness... u dont need to cheat to win (like the AI).

[Gothmog]

Idealy, each player (human or AI) should get to play in a fixed order. However, this is not the case, AI tribes can defintely predict your move and execute some counter-measurement. But AIs can be outsmarted fairly easily anyway.

As far as the reinforcement's concern, I won't complain at all. Because both human player and AIs are treated equal in this aspect.


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Pain is weakness leaving the body.
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[Hasuike_Kaemon]

Hmm, I thought so. That AI is a dirty ch33ter! j/k. I guess it would be too easy. This way, it does make you think more. It gets irritating sometimes though.

Speaking of dirty, low-down AI stunts...the AI in this game is quite impressive sometimes. I had Hojo army confined to Musashi and the other river province below it. I couldn't wipe him out since they were well defended, so he sat there for "years" while my Uesugi clan began to take over almost half the map. I only had Hojo, Takeda, and Shimazu to deal with. Shimazu being the biggest.

The AI goes and sends a geisha to kill off the Shimazu Daimyo, his own ally! I'm pretty sure it was Hojo who did it, he kept sending my emissaries heads back in bags...anyway, since he was an ally, he took all of Shimazu lands and troops. Now his forces are growing bigger than mine. Nice strategy for a computer brain. It went from owning two provinces to owning about 35% of the map! Not a problem though...

This game rocks! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Nelson]

The AI does react to what you do each turn after you have decided your moves which means that you can influence it somewhat. To the degree that you can effect it the AI can be fooled. i.e. If you send a small decoy force to invade a province near the region you plan to attack with your main force the AI may expend troops to defend it thus weakening your real target. Your decoy can then withdraw before combat.

[Hasuike_Kaemon]

That's a good idea. Nice tactic. I've also found that the AI is a bit dim when it comes to spending and troop deployment. I massed alot of my forces on the "Musashi front", and the AI did the same. Mostly Ashigaru, against my mainly cavalry armies resulting in a stalemate in that region. All I have to do is keep adding cheap ashigaru to the armies there to keep the AI flowing in troops (wasting it's money) while I send my real armies to the south (map left) to take the relatively unprotected provinces. Once I have enough of his provinces that he can no longer build large armies, I will surround Musashi with all of my forces and crush him. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Hasuike_Kaemon (edited 04-16-2002).]

[Wavesword]

I can see your daimyo at the ashigaru paddock gate: "Off you go little ashigaru, nothing to fear, you go join those ten thousand clone brothers for a mass wedding. What? Nooo, they aren't warrior monks, they're friendly sadhus to instruct you on how to become reincarnated as a daimyo just like me" Ashigaru "Join the army they said, see the world.." (lost in the crush) Distant Ashigaru voice "Ooooh I just gotta be me..."

[pdoan8]

I don't think that AI has extra move. It is just how the turn is arranged.

There is one thing I am not sure is the assasination acts. I think it will be executed first. If not, it is between 1 and 2. Then,
1. All battles will be resolves at the beginning of a turn. Your defending battle goes first.
2. All events will be reported.
3. You make your move.
4. You hit the "End turn".
5. AI's make their moves for the same turn (after you end the turn).

Since AI's make their moves (for the same turn) after you have ended the turn, a few things that you cannot do but AI's can:

1. Move reinforcement into a province being attacked.
2. Allies can move their army into a province to join an attack. Or, AIs' can move an army to attack the same province as you did with an attemp to take it rather than help you.
3. AI's can attack a undefended/weak defense province if you move the army/units there to attack another province or to another province.

There are many things you can do to fool the AI's so they may do what you want. Some of the things I like to do:

1. Decoy army (as mentioned in a post above) to draw AIs' army to some where else. Works very well.
2. AI's usually leave their back door open. The provinces that far from frontline and not border any other clan are often left undefended or with weak defense. If those provinces are coastal and have a port, you can attack, pillage, hold until get attacked then abandon (just remember not to sell the port or you will get stuck). Stretch out the AI army and weaken their economy easily. This is my favourite tactic.
3. Quick save the game (CTRL + S) before end the turn. You can load (CTRL + L) the game if thing didn't go your way. You may consider it as a cheat but I consider it as a safety rule (my habit for all games: save often).
4. If you have coastal province which has port, defend it well but not with a big army. Build large castle (the bigger the better), defend by one unit (the less soldiers the better, Kensai and BNs are ideal but they cost too much for the use) and some Shinobis. If the province is attacked, you can retreat to castle then move in the reinforcement. It is safer than leave the province undefended.

Anyway, the AIs are pretty stupid at easy level. Normal level seems to be resonable and fun. They cheat on expert level. And one more, AI is systematic means that it might be complicated, but still predictable.

[This message has been edited by pdoan8 (edited 04-16-2002).]

[Toda Nebuchadnezzar]

GUys you might find that the Ai can not see your moves, and simply moves after you hit end turn irrespective of what you do.

They are supposed to be as much like human players as possible, and so only the cheats they are programmed with they use.

The AI therefore does not see your movement before he does his. If you notice they attack your province you have just moved out of whether or not their army can beat yours. Then they simply decide they cannot win and retreat.

They move in reinforcements just like you do.

E.G. :
You have three provinces all in a line. They have the same.
their two outer provinces have one full army each. So do yours.
Their middle province has half full army. Yours is full.
Your middle province can touch all of theirs. Their middle one can touch only your middle one.
Naturally they keep moving reinforcements into their middle province to make it a stalemate.

The AI can only cheat on hard and expert level. And they only use the cheats they are programmed with.

Lastly, if you think about it.

8 human players.
each moves at the same time so as not to get an advantage.
none can see the other's movement until everyone has hit End Turn
This is exactly what happens, except it may not look like it, because the AI sees things in a different way to us.
They see stats and figures, we see armies and provinces.



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He is the Messiah
No i'm not the Messiah
Only the true Messiah would deny it.
Alright then I am the Messiah.
HE IS THE MESSIAH HOORAY!!!

[pdoan8]

I think you are right.

As I look more into how each turn was played out, the AI can match my move only if they have either spies in my provinces or a guard tower in a bordering provinces.

[Papewaio]

Quote Originally posted by Toda Nebuchadnezzar:
GUys you might find that the Ai can not see your moves, and simply moves after you hit end turn irrespective of what you do.
[/QUOTE]


Not true. It sees your moves then reacts.

Play against the Mongols. Only on Strategic don't bother with the battles (so play on normal).

Move a single unit against the mongol armies from every direction.
You will find that unless you empty all the surrounding provinces in the attack that the mongol army will not move out. It stays in the one spot to defend (has an advantage as defender).
You will find that the rate at which the mongol army moves out from the landing zone will be greatly decelarated. Occasionally they will move out. But compared with normal they tend to sit back.

This works in normal campaigns as well.

Attack a province and attack the adjoining ones. If you empty the province you are attacking from and the opponent is fiercly outnumbered they will duck through and take your empty province. Leave a unit or bring in a rear guard and I have not yet seen them go into that province against even a single ashi.

Anyhow by attacking multiple provinces with single units, you will find that the AI spreads its forces more rather then concentrating.

The most obvious case for this is when you attack a port and the AI depletes surrounding provinces to defend it. If you have enough diplomats you can see this happening.

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Victory First, Battle Last

[CeltiberoSkullXIII]

lol


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"It's better to let the enemy alive as to kill it ... To TORTURE it!" http://gifanimados.ya.com/terror/calaveras_banderas/flag_wht_blkbns_clr.gif

[Nelson]

My experiences mirror Papewaio's. Save a turn and experiment. The AI is reacting to your moves each turn. You decide what to do in 1550, the AI decides what to do in 1550, and THEN the moves for 1550 are executed. Seeing is believing.

[Toda Nebuchadnezzar]

My point exactly


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He is the Messiah
No i'm not the Messiah
Only the true Messiah would deny it.
Alright then I am the Messiah.
HE IS THE MESSIAH HOORAY!!!