Rumors and More Rumors

[Barkhorn1x]

So we have the following "information" floating around;
1. M:TW & VI being bundled w/ R:TW
2. Having to play through a Roman Faction campaign to "un-lock" other factions.
3. An MP Campaign will be offered

All of these tidbits have been offered by various game mags and they all sound like BS to me.

However, it would be nice to receive the official word on this stuff.

What say you Capt. Fishpants & Co.???

Barkhorn.

[Stormer]

they dont have to say nothing, cause fi you think about it this is kinda a good way to get more publicity even if its not true more people will hear about the game and look forward to it.

but if its true then they got one of the ebst RTS games ever aslong as the online campagin dont turn out to be crap. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-gossip.gif

[Sir Robin]

The devs are probably busting butt right now trying to keep the release on schedule.

I seriously doubt they will bundle MTW/VI with the first RTW release. Possible later for a "Warlord" release but might cause extra headaches for an initial release.

I hope RTW has "historical" campaigns and a "full" campaign. Having to unlock factions for me is fine with "historical" campaigns but will suck if required for the "full" campaign.

A multiplayer campaign would be a big plus. However there are various hurdles they would have to overcome. I would rather have multiplayer battles and a solid singleplayer campaign than trying to include a buggy multiplayer campaign.

[spmetla]

Yeah, I haven't seen them in a while. Longjohn silver is missing? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

Time to form a search party.

[Knight_Yellow]

1. I dont see it, not at first when RTW comes out. as previously said maybe a £40 TW Genesis pack or something

2. God i hope not

3. After seeing the Scanned page i actualy belive this is true, Its a big bold statement to make and without having some info it would be suicide.


Where for are though devs?

[Voigtkampf]

Yes, the fearless ones were rather silent lately… Hope it it's the silence before the storm. I sometimes think I should join their official forums, but I simply cannot afford myself to hang there out too now; but I would like to hear something more from, like, Captain Fishpants.

[Nowake]

Well, they'll be here soon; the rumours have to stop at some point http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Captain Fishpants]

Where are the devs?

Developing. That's where.

At the moment, we've got oodles to do. Oodles. That's like "shed loads", only more.

On the subject of M:TW and VI being bundled with Rome: Total War, I think it's safe to say that this won't be happening. There may be a few retail outlets who decide to put together their own deals, but that's their affair and nothing we can influence.

At the moment, you play as one of three Roman factions first. Win, and you unlock other playable factions.

We haven't seen the magazine article quoted when MP campaigns are mentioned, so can't comment on what it says.

And with that, back to the couple of hundred unit descriptions I need to edit before Monday. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Intrepid Sidekick also needs to have the dogs set on him again, because he slackened for an instant in scripting the tutorial.

[Nowake]

But at least tell us how many playable factions are there and if you decided on which will effectively be the ones playable.

[Stormer]

thank you thank you for replt,

but unlockable factions http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif gonna spend half my lifep palying RTW jsut to unlock all the factions but im sure someone will realse a nice crack for it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

shame you have no news on multiplayer campagin just keep us updated http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Basileus]

Captain Fishpants,

thanks for taking the time mate, i dont like the idea of unlocking factions reminds me of console games..cheats will get released anyway so i´ll be able to play with my greek factions http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[spmetla]

And I thought we'd been abandoned. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

But alas fishpants saves the day. A conjugater of verbs indeed.

[econ21]

Please - no locking factions. It's just silly. It really annoyed me about Heroes of Might and Magic III. I had zero interest in evil or neutral campaigns, and hated having to play a necromancer or whatever. Why force people to be Romans first when they want to play with elephants or whatever? Let the gamers choose what they play without needless constraints. It's true it probably won't affect me as (a) I want to play the Romans; and (b) like with Homm3 I'll find a savegame to unlock other factions but for others it seems rather a over-paternalist approach to game design.

I'm also slightly disturbed by the implication that a Roman faction is either simpler or less interesting than playing other factions. I would expect a Roman campaign to be the most complex and strategically interesting (kinda like HRE in MTW or Oda in STW). What really bothered me about the Homm3 locking of campaigns is that they watered down the difficulty on the early unlocked campaigns so that they were positively painful to complete.

[Rosacrux]

Dammit guys, the average potential RTW players are a tad bit more focused, mature, intelligent - whatever - than the average Playstation players. Do not bloody treat us like we are on the same level, please.

We'll pay good money to buy your masterpiece, as we've paid good money to buy the previous releases. But do not impose stupid restraints on us, unfitting for mature strategy players.

GAH http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif

[Barkhorn1x]

Quote[/b] (Rosacrux @ Mar. 04 2004,07:08)]Dammit guys, the average potential RTW players are a tad bit more focused, mature, intelligent - whatever - than the average Playstation players. Do not bloody treat us like we are on the same level, please.

We'll pay good money to buy your masterpiece, as we've paid good money to buy the previous releases. But do not impose stupid restraints on us, unfitting for mature strategy players.

GAH http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif
Hey Captn. - let me second the response above and tell you that this approach just SUX http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

What the hell is the point anyway?????? Why go through all of that trouble to creat different factions and then deny access??

You are alienating your hard core fan base to cater to some silly adolescent mind-set.

I thought better of CA, I really did.

NOT happy,
Barkhorn.

[Trax]

I think they just want to make sure that everybody will play the best (Roman) campaign at least once, after-all it will have many unique features: the Senate, the power struggle between different Roman factions etc.
They just want our first impression to be the best.

[The_Emperor]

Oh man to think I have to "unlock" Carthage, Greece and my Barbarian hordes by playing Roman first.

I am not happy about this because the first faction I wanted to play as was a non-Roman one.

Please don't do this, let us choose our desired factions (we'll probably play them all anyway, but still)

[Kraxis]

Come on guys...

Is it really that bad? I mean the Roman campagins are most likely the best developed ones, the ones with the most depth and most likely the ones with the most diplomacy.

While I certainly want to play with the mecedonian pikemen and the Numidian Cavalry, and most likely would have played with them before the Romans, I think this does have some positive effects. We will play a campagin we hadn't thought we would have, and it might certainly be positive experience.

Also, you guys are all TW vets, you should be able to trounce the initial campaign if you want to. And if it really is that bad, I promise I will upload a savegame where I only need one more year to finish a Roman campaign. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-toff.gif

[Sir Robin]

Wow... ask and ye shall receive. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Thank you for the post Captain Fishpants. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

I figured you guys would be working like crazy as it gets closer to crunch time. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif

Hopefully upcoming interviews will provide more details on the unlocking factions feature.

However I agree with others regarding concerns about this. Of course we are basing our views on our experience with MTW and STW. Perhaps the strategic gameplay will be so different with RTW that this will not evoke the pained memories of other games that requeired unlocking.

[Voigtkampf]

"Oh, die Geister die ich rief, werd' ich nicht mehr los"

As for the spirits I called, thank you very much for your post, Captain Fishpants , though it is true that we, the spoiled bunch here at the Org, were somewhat disappointed not to see anyone from our most respected developing team in a while, it is safe to say that we all love to see you so hard at work that you don't have time to browse. I know, perhaps you don't quite the same, but at least let me express my sincere hopes that you enjoy working on the game at least as half as much as we are all craving to get our hands on it

As for the decision to lock other factions as long as the Roman campaign wasn't completed, I found this rather, let say, troublesome; it does put us on a certain "console" level the most fans will be hard to cope with. It may be a fairly sure bet to say that you will probably abandon that aspect some time soon, now the word is spreading, but that is just a prognosis from a humble fan.

Gentlemen, good luck and Godspeed

[Barkhorn1x]

Hmmmmf;

Still not happy - of course I'll still buy. Heck, I was buying the day it was announced.

Barkhorn.

[Cebei]

Dont spank me but I like the unlockable feature thingy. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif

[rasoforos]

having to unlock factions sucks....
please do not implement this or at least have a 'deactivation' choice in the options. I d hate to see an Arcade Total War :P

[Nelson]

I suspect the devs have some reason to compel us to play as the Romans first. Maybe the whole game unfolds better if you initially play Rome and are introduced to the other powers through Roman eyes. Who knows?

The devs know. While I'm seldom in favor of compulsory game decisions this might make sense.

The game will be splendid. So what if we have to play Rome first? I expected to in any event but had I not this wouldn't prevent me from enjoying myself. We will get the game and like it. For who among us would cut their nose off to spite their face over so small an issue? We'll move through that first campaign like a gladius through a groin. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[alman9898]

Why, CA, why? Let us CHOOSE who we want to play. GAH A dark day indeed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[spmetla]

Quote[/b] ]Dont spank me but I like the unlockable feature thingy.
Glad I'm not alone. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Shamus]

I suppose it could be annoying, but I had planned to play as the Romans right from the start anyway....

[Trax]

Quote[/b] (Shamus @ Mar. 04 2004,23:09)]I suppose it could be annoying, but I had planned to play as the Romans right from the start anyway....
Me too, otherwise I would be very angry right now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/handball.gif

[Stormer]

well the good sdie is it will give me something to complete the campaign for condiideing i always get bored of mtw campagns and if i know i gotta complete one to get my spartans the it will be done

[Monk]

I don't have a problem with unlocking factions. but being the modder that i am i change a lot of things and install a lot of mods on my TW games. and because of which i have to reinstall every so often if i want to get a different mod going.

But if RTW has factions that need unlocking, if i say one day "you know this mod is fun, but i'd like to play vanilla rtw." so i uninstall it and reinstall and start up a full campaign, only to find i have to play through a Roman campaign before i can do anything else.

After a few times that can get quite annoying and ultimately become more trouble than its worth (and trust me i have reinstalled VI many times http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )

[Sir Robin]

Ouch... never thought about that.

That will suck if I have to replay the Romans each time.

[The Wizard]

I don't wanna play the damn Romans first. Where's the fun in that?

What has happened to the open interface of the MTW campaign? Why are we forced to play as Romans, while in the older games you could just choose any faction at any time, and then just go?

I think this sucks, really. This is just a major bummer, not everyone is going to want to have to play the Romans to get to play their preferred faction.

Personally, I was looking forward to blundering into several cool situations in my first campaign as the Antigonid Empire (Makedon after Antigonus' death), before I learned exactly how it worked, but now I'll have to settle for a Roman faction. Thanks :\



~Wiz

[alman9898]

Quote[/b] (The Wizard @ Mar. 05 2004,14:06)]I don't wanna play the damn Romans first. Where's the fun in that?

What has happened to the open interface of the MTW campaign? Why are we forced to play as Romans, while in the older games you could just choose any faction at any time, and then just go.

I think this sucks, really. This is just a major bummer, not everyone is going to want to have to play the Romans to get to play their preferred faction.

Personally, I was looking forward to blundering into several cool situations in my first campaign as the Antigonid Empire (Makedon after Antigonus' death), before I learned exactly how it worked, but now I'll have to settle for a Roman faction. Thanks :\



~Wiz
After the response this move is receiving, I doubt CA will follow through with this. So let's hope CA does reconsider. I was going to start as the Romans anyway, but I rarely finish campaigns, so I'd probably play 'em for a while then move onto the Greeks or barbarians. Now CA is making finish a LONG-ARSE campaign as the Romans. I'll get bored first playing that long as one faction.,

[Knight_Yellow]

Quote[/b] (Monk @ Mar. 05 2004,01:07)]I don't have a problem with unlocking factions. but being the modder that i am i change a lot of things and install a lot of mods on my TW games. and because of which i have to reinstall every so often if i want to get a different mod going.

But if RTW has factions that need unlocking, if i say one day "you know this mod is fun, but i'd like to play vanilla rtw." so i uninstall it and reinstall and start up a full campaign, only to find i have to play through a Roman campaign before i can do anything else.

After a few times that can get quite annoying and ultimately become more trouble than its worth (and trust me i have reinstalled VI many times http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif )
Maybe CA will actualy support mods this time so that you dont have to reinstall for ever mod.

IE.

My BF1942 install has

Vinnila BF
Road to rome
Secret Weapons
Desert Combat
Eve of destruction
Forgotten hope
Home front
XWWII

i just start the game and select wich one i would like to play.

[Beelzebub]

Have there been any new screenshots posted in like the last 3 weeks?

[Nowake]

no .. and don't remember them of any screenshots .. those things require a lot of work and programming, and you don't want to have Rome neglected on some screenies, would you? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

[Beelzebub]

err, pressing the "prt scr" during normal playtesting requires a lot of work? :)

[The Wizard]

He's being cynical ;-)



~Wiz

[RisingSun]

It's not the screenshots, but the wrist-crampingly long captions http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

I WILL NOT TOLERATE A LOCKED GAME http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif THIS IS NOT AN ARCADE GAME

Word of warning to CA:

I HAVE BOUGHT ALL 4 PREVIOUS GAMES, BUT I WILL NOT BOTHER TO BUY THIS ONE IF THIS FEATURE IS IMPLEMENTED http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-rifle.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Sorry, guys But I really had to vent some frustration... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

[Monk]

Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Mar. 09 2004,16:58)]Sorry, guys But I really had to vent some frustration... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif
It's quite alright, i beleive we can all understand. Over in the poll on this same topic, i beleive 'No" has pulled ahead by 30 votes so you are not alone. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[The Black Ship]

Guys, chill.

I'm sure one of the first "mod", or utility, one of the more gifted patrons of the TotalWar series will be a "faction unlock" file.

[Sir Robin]

Only if the "unlockable" feature can be modded.

CA has not specified whether the strategic game is moddable.

If I recall correctly all previous hints have been about modding tactical parts of the game.

[LordKhaine]

I can see it being a good idea if you can select all major factions at the start..... but completing it as Rome unlocks some other minor factions.

Oh, and as for reinstalls an suchlike. With these such things you can always backup saves/edit config files to avoid another roman campaign.

[Nowake]

Quote[/b] (The Wizard @ Mar. 09 2004,22:43)]He's being cynical ;-)



~Wiz
As Wiz said .. too subtle for some http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

[kanett]

can any1 guess for me the possibility of shipdate delay, 10% 30%? or 50%

[Nowake]

Shipdate delay? Nowake guesses your whole life is programmed, isn't it? How about a demo first ..

[BobTheTerrible]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-clown.gif

I don't understand what the fuss is about. If you don't like the unlockable factions, the answer is simple: Don't buy the game. I'm tired of looking through all the RTW forums and seeing threads/polls about how much people will hate CA and never support them again. (With all these people boycotting CA, I won't even have to bother reserving a game because I'll be able to pick one up on the first day of release)

I mean, what is so bad about playing a Roman campaign? I'm sure sooner or later that anyone who would buy the game would play as the Romans. Hey, it is Rome: Total War not Ancient: Total war.

If the focus on the game was ENTIRELY on Rome, with no research put into any other factions, then I might be mad. But the focus of the game is not historical acuracy, it is fun.

CA has spent a long time on the game. I expect it to be as good as Medieval. If it isn't, then shame on CA. I also expect it not to run on my computer.

Now to the long line of posts telling me various ways I should die, why I'm wrong and why CA sucks.

/ http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-clown.gif

[Sir Robin]

This is not the .com forum.

Most of what I have seen here and on the other descent boards is more disappointment than anger.

I won't to go into the whole thing but anything that limits an "open-ended" game is a cause for concern.

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Clownmite @ Mar. 11 2004,20:16)]http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-clown.gif

I don't understand what the fuss is about. If you don't like the unlockable factions, the answer is simple: Don't buy the game. I'm tired of looking through all the RTW forums and seeing threads/polls about how much people will hate CA and never support them again. (With all these people boycotting CA, I won't even have to bother reserving a game because I'll be able to pick one up on the first day of release)

I mean, what is so bad about playing a Roman campaign? I'm sure sooner or later that anyone who would buy the game would play as the Romans. Hey, it is Rome: Total War not Ancient: Total war.

If the focus on the game was ENTIRELY on Rome, with no research put into any other factions, then I might be mad. But the focus of the game is not historical acuracy, it is fun.

CA has spent a long time on the game. I expect it to be as good as Medieval. If it isn't, then shame on CA. I also expect it not to run on my computer.

Now to the long line of posts telling me various ways I should die, why I'm wrong and why CA sucks.

/ http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-clown.gif
Clownmite, The Org is most definitely a place where people can openly say their opinion and discuss things in a sound manner, without flaming and insulting anybody, and that is one of the reasons why I cherish this place so highly. So no one should address any harsh words at you just because you spoke up and said your opinion.

I, respectfully, disagree with your point of view and cannot wholeheartedly support that course of action CA decided to take, but it will certainly be no reason for me not to buy the only game I really look forward too in near and far future. IMHO, the fans should speak their opinion concerning this, because it is the way the CA will design their policy, and I sincerely doubt that they will pursue this feature when they see that the large number of the community is not very open to this idea. But, then again, the CA might just go ahead and fight this through despite the community's resistance and it may prove to work out just fine.

The fact is that the unlocking factions is a part of console mentality, something PC users don't like to see, and people that prefer strategies are even more reluctant to make their peace with this feature. I remember the story about oriental carpet makers who would make such perfect carpets that they would deliberately make a small mistake when finishing them, because nothing can't be perfect and the attempt to make it so is almost an act of defiance towards God Himself. Therefore, R:TW can have this little imperfection, I will find ways to live with it for sure

Oh, and as for boycotting CA and writing hate letter etc., I sincerely don't know where you get that from, if CA was the general on the battlefield and I should be one of their soldiers, I would hold the line and fight to the bitter death, no matter the odds, as would, I believe, the most of the members here as well.


Regards,

voigtkampf

[MiniKiller]

I say we forget about it. Someone on here will find a way to edit the files to get em all playable.

i am tired of hearing it to but we gotta respect em m8.

[BobTheTerrible]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-clown.gif

You are right, this isn't the .com forums. Sorry for my little outburst. Never in my post did I say I like the idea though. I don't like it very much, but if CA wants us to play as the Romans first, it doesn't bother me. As long as I would be able to play the other factions once I'm done with Rome. I'm just tired of everbody sayong they don't like CA just because of this little feature.

/ http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-clown.gif

[jLan]

I haven't seen many people say the don't like CA in this thread - in fact I think you'd be hard pressed to find 5 - no, they seem to be disappointed, not angry.

Personally, I am very disappointed by this. I would play the romans first, but I dislike any and all restrictions in such an open-ended game. Morrowind and Medieval are two of my favorite games; mainly because they are so open-ended.

[Knight Keimo]

Most likely the reason is to give a good first-impression to player, by forcing them to play "best" faction once through. But, doesn´t this give also an feeling that other factions are not such good? Are they gonna be disappointment? Are there something wrong with them why we´re not allowed to see them straight away? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Kraxis]

Quote[/b] (Sir Robin @ Mar. 11 2004,23:44)]This is not the .com forum.
My goodness, the elitism at work again.

Yes, .com gets all the onetimers and newbies, but the .org develops this elitism sense. So what is better?
And with regards to this issue there is as much of a rave about it at the .com.

Since I frequent both places I can say I find little difference in how people act. I'm as much at ease here as at the .com.

And honestly, I think a number of people are overdoing this issue too much. Yes, it is seriously dislikeable, and I hope every day to hear it has been scrapped, but it is easily worked around.

*You can play the Roman campaign. Should be fun in itself.
*You can wait for a mod. Might not happen if it is hardcoded.
*But most importantly, since you are not alone, some of the Roman players will most certainly upload a Roman savegame where all you need to do is press 'End Turn' to finish. If none do I hereby pledge to do it as soon as I have finished my first Roman campaign.

Satisfied???

[Gregoshi]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thumbsup.gif

Well said on both accounts Kraxis - the .com & the RTW issues.

The .com forums aren't what they used to be thanks to the moderators who have a much harder job than we do here when you look at the volume of posts. I've heard the .com moderators called (paraphrasing) "heavy-handed, power-tripping Nazis" just like we moderators here at the Org have been called, so I figure they must be doing a good job. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pat.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

About all the RTW issues, I fear too many RTW fans are going to have nervous breakdowns before the game ever gets released. I get frustrated just reading the responses about a multitude of topics - the release date, the demo, the MP campaign, unlockable factions, which factions, unit historical accuracy, etc. The killer is that the game is still 6+ months away from release and already tensions are beginning to run high. A lot can change in 6 months. It is a good thing to express disagreement with some of the announced features, as it may help influence CA's decisions about certain parts of the game's development. But foam-at-the-mouth ranting about it is a bit over the top. I remember one of the heated debates leading up to the release of MTW - what colours are the factions? "The Hungarians are pink? NEVER" Deep issues these. Faction colours are still a hot topic today. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif

I also don't think these previews we've been seeing are helping. How can a preview get the whole MP campaign issue so wrong? Makes me wonder what other printed and posted "facts" are wrong.

Since the first RTW movie was released, people have placed RTW on a pedestal so high that the game, no matter how great, will never live up to their expectations. I see parallels between RTW and Star Wars: The Phantom Menace.

Let's discuss and debate information as it becomes available, but let's keep it real folks.

Takes deep, cleansing breath...in...out...in...out Ahhhh http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-mellow.gif

[Spino]

Quote[/b] ]Since the first RTW movie was released, people have placed RTW on a pedestal so high that the game, no matter how great, will never live up to their expectations. I see parallels between RTW and Star Wars: The Phantom Menace.

So you're saying Rome Total War will be an overhyped piece of sh_t? Quelle horreur http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-clown.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[Rosacrux]

The problem is, partly, the approach of the fans but that's because we hardcore TW fans (yes, even us the SP ones) are expecting a game on par with the high mark CA has set for the series up until now.

Of course, MTW is not without a flaw (and so much is true for STW for the same matter). But with all the flaws and errors, they've managed to pull out a couple of extraordinary games and equally good expansions. STW and MTW are along with Civ3 (and its expansions) and Neverwinter Nights (Mods) the only games I've played in the past 18 months. I am a great fan of the series and I am also an avid history-buff, with a special interest in the ancient times.

Not that all TW fans are equally sensitive about history and historical accuracy - allthough the oppinions voiced here on the .ORG suggest that this might not be actually false.

But a great deal of them is. And also, for the greatest part the average TW fan is older, more mature and - dare I say - more intelligent than the average computer and moreso console player. The one who buys a game and pirates three more every month, the one with the extremely short attention span, the one who plays a game for a month and then forgets all about it.

No, we are not that kind of players. We are persistent - how many TW fans still play occasionaly a game of STW? - and most of us are spending their own money, not that of their parents.

But, CA seems to completely and utterly neglect its audience, us. Ignoring what we want - as expressed through the greatest fan site and board the .ORG - ignoring our requests, our feedback, hell even our nagging and drivel, and walking the way the marketing "specialists" point out - the appeal to the-even-massier-mass-market.

Heck, first of all what makes them think that 12 year olds with the attention span of a turnip shall buy this bloody game? Are those the ones that made CA what it is by buying the 4 games&expansion of the TW series? I really doubt that. Are we the ones? Bloody yes we are.

We then forget all about us, and focus on the "emerging market share" (or however they'd call it) of those who find appeal in a silly semi-fictional clown of a game like the RTW we are seing to develop day by day?

If the guy who does the historical research and produces the unit lineups and stuff is so bloody incompetent, we'll be happy to help you pull together some more comprehensive stuff - Hell, I'd do it for free, even though usually my services don't go by for anything short of a more-than-decent fee. But to avoid such monstrosities as the Egypt faction the way you flesh it out and the various "barbarian" units and other stuff that prolly shall be in game, I'll help you for free. And there are even more knowledgable historians (not to mention that their spelling is better than yours truly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ) posting on the .ORG, ask those too, I am sure they'l volunteer to help you clear up the mess too - and for free.

Of course there are strategical decisions to make too. Like dumping the stupid console carry-over, the lamest of the lame concepts, the "unlocking non-Roman factions" feature. But the whole uprise should bloody convince your marketeers that this is not welcomed by the market.

Oh, well, this drivel has grown to large. I've got work to do and time is valuable.

But I had to get those off my chest. Thank you for reading.

[Pindar]

Quote[/b] ]So you're saying Rome Total War will be an overhyped piece of sh_t? Quelle horreur

No, what he is saying is CA will incorporate a Jamacan sounding CG character who will wander through the game making inane comments.

[Gregoshi]

Quote[/b] ]But, CA seems to completely and utterly neglect its audience, us. Ignoring what we want...

I'm hearing this old argument being resurrected again and I disagree with it. Take a look at Viking Invasion. Several of the features it introduced were talked about on these boards after MTW came out. How about the pre-battle screen? Saving between battles? So I don't think that "CA doesn't listen to us" line holds any water. Only the online players have any room to complain about being ignored and we've heard the reasons why that is so (no audience). Do we get everything we want? No, but we can't say CA does not listen.

Without knowing the problems CA has faced in developing RTW it is hard for me to criticize some of the decisions being made. Maybe there are technical issues directing them. Or game balance. I haven't walked a mile in CA's shoes, so I can't criticize their decisions. What I can do is look at CA's track record of two great TW games and 2 great expansions and figure they will give us the best RTW game they can. I'll admit I don't like unlockable factions and, I don't know for fact, but the Iberian Bull Warrior seems a bit dodgy to me. Having said that, I'm not going to judge until I see the final product. But that's just me.

I've this strange feeling of deja vu. Like I've had these very same discussions before MTW came out...and VI...

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (Spino @ Mar. 15 2004,23:36)]
Quote[/b] ]Since the first RTW movie was released, people have placed RTW on a pedestal so high that the game, no matter how great, will never live up to their expectations. I see parallels between RTW and Star Wars: The Phantom Menace.

So you're saying Rome Total War will be an overhyped piece of sh_t? Quelle horreur http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-clown.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif
ROTFLhttp://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-laugh4.gif

My thoughts exactly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

[Rosacrux]

Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ Mar. 16 2004,08:53)]
Quote[/b] ]But, CA seems to completely and utterly neglect its audience, us. Ignoring what we want...

I'm hearing this old argument being resurrected again and I disagree with it. Take a look at Viking Invasion. Several of the features it introduced were talked about on these boards after MTW came out. How about the pre-battle screen? Saving between battles? So I don't think that "CA doesn't listen to us" line holds any water. Only the online players have any room to complain about being ignored and we've heard the reasons why that is so (no audience). Do we get everything we want? No, but we can't say CA does not listen.

Without knowing the problems CA has faced in developing RTW it is hard for me to criticize some of the decisions being made. Maybe there are technical issues directing them. Or game balance. I haven't walked a mile in CA's shoes, so I can't criticize their decisions. What I can do is look at CA's track record of two great TW games and 2 great expansions and figure they will give us the best RTW game they can. I'll admit I don't like unlockable factions and, I don't know for fact, but the Iberian Bull Warrior seems a bit dodgy to me. Having said that, I'm not going to judge until I see the final product. But that's just me.

I've this strange feeling of deja vu. Like I've had these very same discussions before MTW came out...and VI...
First, we are not talking about the VI. Why do you bring this up? I was extremely happy with the data leaked on VI and I never ever complained a bit about it.

Generally, I wouldn't say yours truly is the short-tempered guy who shall judge before sufficient data is presented - it would kill my career if I was acting that way.

We've had ample data by CA. That ample that I was assuming they were using us (as they should be, actually) as a test audience.

But I've since whitnessed each and every suggestion we've made to go unheard by, by CA. We ask for more historical accuracy and they give us Bull(shite) warriors (with horns, ferchristsake) Chosen AxeGits and 3rd dynasty Egyptian in 250 BC. We ask for better gameplay and they give us locked factions. We ask for something and we get something completely different.

I wouldn't be such a brat to ask for "everything" - after all, different people means different needs. But there are some very basic things we'd like to be adressed. Allmost all of us, as a matter of fact.

And surely I am not addressing the problems they are facing through development and - frankly - I wouldn't stop a minute nagging to think of them. Why should I? Methinks you are messing up the roles here. CA is the game producer, not me. I am the potential customer, I have bought their previous games - and bloody loved them too- so I am the one they should listen to when they decide what's good for me.

Trusting blindly anyone is not really my cup of tea and moreso when all available data points out that what was bound to become one of the great strategy games of our era, is going to become Zelda: Total Snort instead.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (Rosacrux @ Mar. 16 2004,03:40)]The problem is, partly, the approach of the fans but that's because we hardcore TW fans (yes, even us the SP ones) are expecting a game on par with the high mark CA has set for the series up until now.

Of course, MTW is not without a flaw (and so much is true for STW for the same matter). But with all the flaws and errors, they've managed to pull out a couple of extraordinary games and equally good expansions. STW and MTW are along with Civ3 (and its expansions) and Neverwinter Nights (Mods) the only games I've played in the past 18 months. I am a great fan of the series and I am also an avid history-buff, with a special interest in the ancient times.

Not that all TW fans are equally sensitive about history and historical accuracy - allthough the oppinions voiced here on the .ORG suggest that this might not be actually false.

But a great deal of them is. And also, for the greatest part the average TW fan is older, more mature and - dare I say - more intelligent than the average computer and moreso console player. The one who buys a game and pirates three more every month, the one with the extremely short attention span, the one who plays a game for a month and then forgets all about it.

No, we are not that kind of players. We are persistent - how many TW fans still play occasionaly a game of STW? - and most of us are spending their own money, not that of their parents.

But, CA seems to completely and utterly neglect its audience, us. Ignoring what we want - as expressed through the greatest fan site and board the .ORG - ignoring our requests, our feedback, hell even our nagging and drivel, and walking the way the marketing "specialists" point out - the appeal to the-even-massier-mass-market.

Heck, first of all what makes them think that 12 year olds with the attention span of a turnip shall buy this bloody game? Are those the ones that made CA what it is by buying the 4 games&expansion of the TW series? I really doubt that. Are we the ones? Bloody yes we are.

We then forget all about us, and focus on the "emerging market share" (or however they'd call it) of those who find appeal in a silly semi-fictional clown of a game like the RTW we are seing to develop day by day?

If the guy who does the historical research and produces the unit lineups and stuff is so bloody incompetent, we'll be happy to help you pull together some more comprehensive stuff - Hell, I'd do it for free, even though usually my services don't go by for anything short of a more-than-decent fee. But to avoid such monstrosities as the Egypt faction the way you flesh it out and the various "barbarian" units and other stuff that prolly shall be in game, I'll help you for free. And there are even more knowledgable historians (not to mention that their spelling is better than yours truly http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif ) posting on the .ORG, ask those too, I am sure they'l volunteer to help you clear up the mess too - and for free.

Of course there are strategical decisions to make too. Like dumping the stupid console carry-over, the lamest of the lame concepts, the "unlocking non-Roman factions" feature. But the whole uprise should bloody convince your marketeers that this is not welcomed by the market.

Oh, well, this drivel has grown to large. I've got work to do and time is valuable.

But I had to get those off my chest. Thank you for reading.
And what a nice reading it was http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Rosacrux as very correctly described the thoughts of many people at the ORG (including myself), as well as their disapointment. He has also given a possible aproximation to CA's position at the present moment. Although such a position is incompreensible in regard to their previous work. But I will not bable more about it, to try and avoid the inevitable flak...

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]But I've since whitnessed each and every suggestion we've made to go unheard by, by CA. We ask for more historical accuracy and they give us Bull(shite) warriors (with horns, ferchristsake) Chosen AxeGits and 3rd dynasty Egyptian in 250 BC. We ask for better gameplay and they give us locked factions. We ask for something and we get something completely different.
Jackpot http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Gregoshi]

Rosacrux said:


Quote[/b] ]So you're saying Rome Total War will be an overhyped piece of sh_t? Quelle horreur

No, I'm saying it will be for all of those who have been flying high since the first RTW movie and screen shots came out and set up false expectations. STW and MTW had questionable historical basis in their units/factions. What makes you think RTW wouldn't? False expectations.

As for bringing up VI, you said CA doesn't listen to "us". I used VI (their last release) to refute that claim.

When RTW does come out, how many of these "big issues" are really going to matter? Unlockable factions affecting game play?? I don't think so. Annoying, yes. Dumb, yes. Affecting game play? No.

[falaffel]

Quote[/b] ]Quote
But I've since whitnessed each and every suggestion we've made to go unheard by, by CA. We ask for more historical accuracy and they give us Bull(shite) warriors (with horns, ferchristsake) Chosen AxeGits and 3rd dynasty Egyptian in 250 BC. We ask for better gameplay and they give us locked factions. We ask for something and we get something completely different.


Hey, how about taking the criticism down a notch

I for one have not forgotten how one of the devs, only due to repeated requests from us users, again and again championed the idea of MP campaign, and guess whats going to be in R:TW ?? I also remember the devs putting in attrition on sieges only because uses asked for it. CA does listen to the community and anyone who say otherwise is either full of crap or have not been visiting these forums long enough to know.

/ Falaffel

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Quote[/b] (falaffel @ Mar. 16 2004,16:24)]
Quote[/b] ]Quote
But I've since whitnessed each and every suggestion we've made to go unheard by, by CA. We ask for more historical accuracy and they give us Bull(shite) warriors (with horns, ferchristsake) Chosen AxeGits and 3rd dynasty Egyptian in 250 BC. We ask for better gameplay and they give us locked factions. We ask for something and we get something completely different.


Hey, how about taking the criticism down a notch

I for one have not forgotten how one of the devs, only due to repeated requests from us users, again and again championed the idea of MP campaign, and guess whats going to be in R:TW ?? I also remember the devs putting in attrition on sieges only because uses asked for it. CA does listen to the community and anyone who say otherwise is either full of crap or have not been visiting these forums long enough to know.

/ Falaffel
There isn't going to be an MP campaign in RTW. The PC gamer article claiming that was refuted by the devs.

[Spino]

Quote[/b] ]As for bringing up VI, you said CA doesn't listen to "us". I used VI (their last release) to refute that claim.

I never said that When did I say that???


Quote[/b] ]When RTW does come out, how many of these "big issues" are really going to matter? Unlockable factions affecting game play?? I don't think so. Annoying, yes. Dumb, yes. Affecting game play? No.

I completely agree. But being that this is the Org we have to bitch about something... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

As usual, a small but determined voice of protest and criticism is drowning out the sea of admiration and support around it... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif I always find it amusing when a person or entity such as CA (or for that matter, its fans) that has been praised by the majority for its actions gets up in arms because of a few harsh words uttered by a handful of critics. This seems especially odd if these critics are justified in some way, and yet the entity and its fans misconstrue the criticism as being the voice of ingratitude. The relationship between CA and its fans is symbiotic; one cannot exist without the other and for either party to completely disregard the other is to terminate the relationship altogether. CA has every right to make the game they see fit and the fans have every right to bitch about and protest CA's actions. But I guess it's human nature to dwell on the loose threads instead of the entire sweater...

You can be sure that the day RTW is released I will picking it up on my way home from work and settling in for an all nighter of conquest and carnage. This however does not mean I won't bitch about silly features like unlockable factions or grossly ahistorical units. To not voice one's displeasure at a thing is in some ways worse than keeping one's mouth shut. Silence is often mistaken for acceptance.

[Kraxis]

I remember them making AP better because we wanted them to, I remember them weakening spears because we wanted them to (though it went a bit too far). There is plenty to show they listen.

And if you feel you are being neglected here, try the .com, I know for sure they both read and answer posts there. I am a moderater there after all. For instance they posted that they were looking into the nhorses necks thing and just today I saw Iulius post something of interest about factions.


Quote[/b] ]The Germans are a playable faction.

I don't hope anybody will complain that they post more at the .com. It is after all their official forum. That said, I am certain they pop over here now and then to look. They have done that since the beginning here, nad why should they suddenly stop?

Personally I think Activision has pushed CA to do the locked faction thing. They are producers of many consolegames, and as such have more incentive to do that than CA does.

All this said, I think it would be great if CA secretly sought info on units here. I just fear that if they tried to ask any number of us outright we would get into a deadlock where people didn't think a unit should look like this, and that units should go all together, while others were of a completely different oppinion. So who should CA pick? See my point?

It might look easy for us when we are so sure of our oppinion being the right one, but it might not be so for outsiders.

[Voigtkampf]

Quote[/b] (Rosacrux @ Mar. 16 2004,09:06)]But I've since whitnessed each and every suggestion we've made to go unheard by, by CA. We ask for more historical accuracy and they give us Bull(shite) warriors (with horns, ferchristsake) Chosen AxeGits and 3rd dynasty Egyptian in 250 BC. We ask for better gameplay and they give us locked factions. We ask for something and we get something completely different.
Each and every suggestion was rejected by CA? Well, so much about objectivity…

We may find out how much the community has affected the game by the time it's actually released, but already there is word out that the CA is fixing the long horse necks and synchronic tail waving. This sounds as if they do care what we think about it, their selling numbers depend from our liking of the game. I bet that at some point or another they will sit down and say "OK, seems that folks hate the locked faction feature, or the Bullman, should we kill it"? They will find the best solution, I am quite positive in it.


Quote[/b] ]Trusting blindly anyone is not really my cup of tea and moreso when all available data points out that what was bound to become one of the great strategy games of our era, is going to become Zelda: Total Snort instead.

"All available data point…" Oh my goodness, please forgive my blunt way of saying this, but this is soap opera at it's "finest".

[Gregoshi]

Okay, I didn't mean to stir the pot (or did Clownmite start it? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-clown.gif ). I was just trying to suggest that perhaps some are overreacting just a tad. And I mean that in both directions - those that think this game will heal all known illnesses and those that forsee the end of the world. Let's try to keep things in perspective. That's all I'm really trying to say. Yes. Definitely. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thumbsup.gif

This has been fun, but I have some new folks to http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif to in the Entrance Hall... Peace, all. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Lord Zimoa of Flanders]

I realy enjoyed reading this,think i should come out of my Dungeon more often
Good points Rosa

CZoF http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]As usual, a small but determined voice of protest and criticism is drowning out the sea of admiration and support around it... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif I always find it amusing when a person or entity such as CA (or for that matter, its fans) that has been praised by the majority for its actions gets up in arms because of a few harsh words uttered by a handful of critics. This seems especially odd if these critics are justified in some way, and yet the entity and its fans misconstrue the criticism as being the voice of ingratitude. The relationship between CA and its fans is symbiotic; one cannot exist without the other and for either party to completely disregard the other is to terminate the relationship altogether. CA has every right to make the game they see fit and the fans have every right to bitch about and protest CA's actions. But I guess it's human nature to dwell on the loose threads instead of the entire sweater...

You can be sure that the day RTW is released I will picking it up on my way home from work and settling in for an all nighter of conquest and carnage. This however does not mean I won't bitch about silly features like unlockable factions or grossly ahistorical units. To not voice one's displeasure at a thing is in some ways worse than keeping one's mouth shut. Silence is often mistaken for acceptance.
Great analysis http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ Mar. 16 2004,13:15)]Okay, I didn't mean to stir the pot (or did Clownmite start it? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-clown.gif ). I was just trying to suggest that perhaps some are overreacting just a tad. And I mean that in both directions - those that think this game will heal all known illnesses and those that forsee the end of the world. Let's try to keep things in perspective. That's all I'm really trying to say. Yes. Definitely. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thumbsup.gif

This has been fun, but I have some new folks to http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif to in the Entrance Hall... Peace, all. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
Indeed, Lord Gregoshi We're being a little extremist on both sides.

The fact is: everyone wants the best for RTW.
The problem is: not everyone thinks Activision's bad influence will be of no significance for the good of the game.

[Sir Robin]

You mean RTW will not cure cancer, drunk driving, and that mole on my rear-end lovingly known as my wife?

What a ripoff I want my money back now instead of after I pay for it Someone call the President cause we just found another country to invade http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Still... what else am I going to do until RTW is released? I surely can't pay attention to the wife. She might remember that she's married and actually give me chores to do. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

[Nelson]

Quote[/b] (Rosacrux @ Mar. 16 2004,10:06)]But I've since whitnessed each and every suggestion we've made to go unheard by, by CA. We ask for more historical accuracy and they give us Bull(shite) warriors (with horns, ferchristsake) Chosen AxeGits and 3rd dynasty Egyptian in 250 BC. We ask for better gameplay and they give us locked factions. We ask for something and we get something completely different.

Rosecrux, you want a real time war game. So do I. Life is tough for us wargamers in PC Land. We have high expectations and understand enough to catch whatever inaccuracies we find. These discrepancies annoy the hell out of us. But we're stuck. Our viewpoint is not shared by many. We know that a game could be very accurate indeed and still be fun and playable without goofy units. The marketing people however do not yet know this. So we fight the good fight. Nevertheless CA has come closest to realizing our goal.

As I said, we spot the failures. I am convinced that there are guys at CA who know what they are doing from a history perspective but get overruled by others with a different agenda. When someone decides the game needs new units they invent some when history can not provide them. Like the super monks in Shogun, the Japanese crossbowmen in MI or the jomsvikings in VI. Totally bogus but hardly show stoppers. Our guys on the inside win a lot of decisions too I think. Most of the Rome units look pretty good. Yeah, we have to put up with ancient Egyptians and bull fighters but I will lay the foibles aside when I play Rome just as I do when I play Shogun and Medieval.

As for getting ideas from us, that's a tough thing to gage. Some of us lobbied for an optional battle timer after Shogun was released. We got it. Prior to Medieval we asked for dismountable cavalry and saves between games. We got both. Did we get them because we asked for them? I doubt it. God knows what the Total War series would become if CA did everything that was asked in the org

In the meanwhile we should continue to clamor for ever more fidelity so that some day we can shout from the mountain top "Accurate at last Accurate at last Thank God Almighty TW is accurate at last" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[spmetla]

Quote[/b] ]In the meanwhile we should continue to clamor for ever more fidelity so that some day we can shout from the mountain top "Accurate at last Accurate at last Thank God Almighty TW is accurate at last"

Amen to that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]"Accurate at last Accurate at last Thank God Almighty TW is accurate at last" http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Martin Nelson King himself http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

[Lord Aeon]

Reading this thread, i am reminded of a girl with whom i went to high school. Her daddy bought her a brand new Saab for her 16th birthday, which she hated and refused to drive because it was black instead of red.

Well, done, people http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

Anyway, i'm off to play some more of that Shogun mod... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[The Wizard]

Oh yes, thanks for your extremely founded opinion. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif



~Wiz

[Lord Aeon]

No problem, sport.