Unlocking Factions

[Sir Robin]

Well, thanks to a post from one of the devs we now know that we will have to play as the Romans first. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Not entirely bad but also not what alot of us were hoping for or expecting.

I have heard some getting pretty upset about having to complete a Roman campaign before being able to play the other factions.

Considering that many of us have rarely, if ever, finished a Medieval: Total War campaign this has raised some angry where-is-the-nearest-lynching-mob kind of flags.

I think, however, that I may understand the process to unlocking the other factions during instead of after the Roman campaign.

They may have set it up so that once your legions reach a playable faction's borders you have the option of playing them instead. Basically as the republic grows it will encounter new enemies.

If the Britons are a playable faction this does make sense, sort of. Why have the Britons playable during the first Punic War when they may have not been doing anything?

Also throughout the long history of the republic some might-be playable factions may not have existed yet or been replaced by other should-be playable factions.

Of course this raises various questions regarding replayability, diplomacy, and non-Roman faction expansion.

It also implies a more linearly styled game than we were used to with STW and MTW or expecting. However with a greatly improved diplomatic and strategic engine many of us may not notice or mind.

If you have to, as the Romans, encounter or border a playable faction to unlock them, then this may not be a feature that can be bypassed by modding. The enemy AI routines could be built around activating once the Romans get near.

Now this may not be entirely a bad thing and may have been required to get over some coding or Almond Empire balancing issues. Still it raise my blood pressure a few points worrying that my almost nightly dreams of RTW could be in anyway wrong.

"What? You mean I cannot sacrifice televangelists to the armor plated lions in my city-sized Herr Gropenfurher colloseum?"

Of course until the game itself is released many questions will probably remain questions.

[Vanya]

GAH

Vanya sez... "campaign" is probably the tutorial. Once youz finish tutorial, youz can play any faction or any game.

Same as in MTW and Olde Shoggy. Only writers don't know this.

GAH

[Nowake]

No, I'm sorry to say, they mean the three roman houses. MikeB made it clear at .com

[Leet Eriksson]

I don't mind playing through the roman factions first,thats what the majority of players will do anyway,but i hope unlocking the greek states won't be tedius or frustrating i wanna try out them phalanx and hoplite units.

[The Wizard]

No.

This completely sucks. I don't want to play the Romans first, just like a sizeable amount of players. The "other" part of a poll is always one of the larger, if you catch my drift.

I want the Macedonians right away. I love all these new stragetical options in RTW, taking the TW series to an entirely new stragetical level, but please, do not take our freedom of choice away from us.

It was this freedom of choice, to choose every faction at any time right away, that fit the series so well. Why? Because of the lack of a storyline and the extreme amount of freedom in the campaign, it needed it. Now, we'll have to go and conquer Rome and become Imperator after holding Rome for 20 turns.

What? Why does CA opt to limit our freedom? Why must we play through a Roman campaign first? Huh? Give me one, extremely good argument why, and I'll shut up.

Not sure that's possible anyway.



~Wiz

[Ashen]

They've turned it into an Arcade/console ripoff

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif

[Sir Robin]

Well if I am right then it will probably be good news for fans of Carthage.

Since the game begins around the first Punic War then Carthage will probably be the first playable faction you encounter.

Honestly I do not like anything that limits an open-ended game but their may have been some technical reasons behind their decision.

If the unlocking process works the way I think it does then it would add some historical accuracy to the game. At least as far as who the Romans encountered along the way and roughly in the order they encountered their victims.

After MTW first came out the Almond Horde was frequently the bane of my resurgent Byzantine Empire. By the time I finished up with the Turks, Egyptians, and Hungarians? the Almohads would often rule all of western Europe and Africa.

If the AI factions "activate" as you draw near it would prevent campaigns where the Seleucids rule all of Eurasia and Africa east of Venice by the time you finish mopping up in Carthage.

Still this could have really bad implications for modders. If the mod requires a fresh install then you will have to start from scratch as the Romans again. Seems to ruin alot of the replayability factor.

One of my major questions at this point is whether or not unlocking other factions or changing the starting faction is hardcoded or moddable?

Anyone heard one way or the other yet?

[Lehesu]

I am surely screwed, as I have never finished a campaign in Shoggy or Medieval, including the expansion packs. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-embarassed.gif

[The Wizard]

Sir Robin, I don't understand your point.

Do you imply that as we start getting the upper hand over another faction, they are unlocked and we can switch over to them ingame?

Also, how would this prevent the Seleucids from conquering all of Eurasia and such?

IMO, this just makes no sense at all, this whole unlocking thing. Why? Why must you unlock factions? What's the whole point?



~Wiz

[Duke John]

Quote[/b] ]Still this could have really bad implications for modders. If the mod requires a fresh install then you will have to start from scratch as the Romans again. Seems to ruin alot of the replayability factor.


Oh no I really hope this will never be the case. I fear this scenario: mod requires a new installation, I need to finish the Roman campaign before I can even test the other modded factions. After testing I will find out that the factions are wrong, that I made an error that is so large that I need a new installation. And then I will have to again play the Roman campaign before being able to test the other factions.

If CA would do this unlocking in such a way that you can't circumvent it by copying and pasting the unlocked_factions file into a new installation, then R:TW will be a nightmare for modders. Whatever they tell about freedom for modders, if you have to replay an entire campaign just to test other factions then IMO it would be the biggest mistake they can make.

To any developer reading this thread:
If this unlocking is to be included, please add a cheat code to unlock all faction. Or make a file that keeps track of unlocked files, so that we are able to copy it and paste it into a new installation.

Mods has kept M:TW fresh for many players, it would be a shame if R:TW would be handicapped because of this unlocking feature.

Many thanks if you take note of this issue,
Duke John

[TosaInu]

Very good point Duke John.

[RisingSun]

Wizard- Sadly, there is none... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[Crazed Rabbit]

I don't think your right, Sir Robin, IMHO. I think they just don't let you play as anyone other than Romans until you win with the Romans.
It's like a gargantuan step backwards for the series if they do this. It's limiting our freedom to do what we want.
Hopefully, if they do include some file that says you unlocked the factions, you could upload this to the net for download by people who don't want to play as the Romans. Still, I don't see the point of limiting the game like this. At a time when they're trying to make it newbie friendly, they add this in like a kick to the shin.
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif
Crazed Rabbit

[RisingSun]

I would consider this a kick in something besides the shin...

[The_678]

As was planning on playing as the Romans first, but probably not finishing a whole campaign. That's just crap. I would add more but it seems all the complaints have already been mentioned.

[Sir Robin]

The Wizard

I would imagine that once one of the Roman factions expands up to a "playable" faction's borders you are given the option of switching to them ingame.

Unless campaigns in RTW are dramatically shorter than ones in MTW or STW it would not be feasible to expect most players to finish a Roman campaign.

As far as the Seleucids example I think the factions more distant from Rome may actually be dormant until Roman forces come within a certain distance.

Therefore, until you came within a certain distance of Seleucid territory they would not take any offensive action against you or other factions.

Rising Sun

If I am right it would provide a roughly historical track to follow in the growth of the Republic. As far as who you encounter along the way and the state of these opposing nations when Rome historically fought them.

If the unlocking feature is part of the grand campaign then it does seem to be an un-needed limitation. I have yet to hear whether CA is referring to historical or grand campaign.

Crazed Rabbit

In a way I hope I am not right. However, this is the most productive process I can see behind CA's decision.

If there are several historical campaigns, one grand campaign, and the unlocking factions requirement is part of the grand campaign; then it would seem foolish to limit replayability without some gameplay mechanics reason.

[Vanya]

GAH

So... youz all be suggestin' that Vanya cannot go out and field a naked Gaulish fiend army outright and flash the Romans back to where they came from? This disturbs Vanya...

Vanya sez... can youz play MP as anybody, or are the MP factions available also have to be "unlocked" via SP play? Clearly, this would be the pinnacle of stoopidity...

"Don't bother to tell a fool HOW to do something or even why, just tell them WHAT to do and let them render you speechless with their stupidity."
-- Vanya

GAH

[Nowake]

All 24 or so factions are available right away in MP .. but .. just don't insult CA untill they release the game; the babies shouldn't be stressed now.