retrain units

[mcveigh]

How do i retrain units?
Do i send them back where they came from or is it possible to do where the same troops can be built.
Or is it better to get units in the whole time?

[Ludens]

Welcome to the Org McVeigh

You retrain a unit by opening the unit-recruitment page and clicking-and-draging the unit icon from the interface to on of the empty unit-slots on the recruitment page.
Units can be retrained if said province contains the buildings necessary to train that specific unit (even if the unit has not been built there). Remember that the new men will be inexperienced so that the average valour level of a high valour unit will fall. No experienced soldiers are lost (valour is tracked on individual basis, the valour shown is the average valour), but the new recruits will not be as effective as the veterans.
If the provinces were the unit is retrained contains any 'upgrade buildings' like armouries, the retrained unit will be refitted with armour/weapons/morale/discipline bonuses. I do not think that these bonuses are lost when a unit that possesses them is retrained in a provinces that does not posses buildings for upgrades. Think of it as the new soldiers recieving the equipment of their dead predecessors.

Personally, I prefer to merge soldiers because it is quicker. A unit will not lose its armour/weapon bonusses when extra troops are added (this has not been confirmed by the developers, but everything points to it). I am not sure if this applies to discipline and morale bonusses, but it seems reasonable to assume it does.

However, you might want to retrain an important, high valour unit if it does not posses weapons/armour upgrades. This is the only reason that I can think of why one would retrain.

[ichi]

Check out this thread mcveigh

Combining Retraining Units Thread in Main Hall (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=7;t=15129)

ichi

[mcveigh]

thanks lads. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[mercian billman]

Actually if you re train a unit in a province with no armor upgrades (the unit trained has armor upgrades) the unit will lose their upgrade even if you only lost one man. Also if the unit takes 2 turns to build only one turn is required even if the unit only has one man.

Combining, and retraining units will help you to create high valor batalions. For instance I combined three units of high valor (but shattered) byz infantry, they then became a unit of 83, 3 valor (without a generals valor bonus) troops, after retraining them in Greece they were a 3 valor unit with +4 armor. This batallion was placed under a 6* general with a skilled attacker virtue. Needless to say they were very instrumental in my final conquest of Europe.

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (mercian billman @ Mar. 06 2004,20:52)]Actually if you re train a unit in a province with no armor upgrades (the unit trained has armor upgrades) the unit will lose their upgrade even if you only lost one man. Also if the unit takes 2 turns to build only one turn is required even if the unit only has one man.
It has been noted. Thank you, Mercian Billman.

[ichi]

Quote[/b] (mercian billman @ Mar. 06 2004,12:52)]Actually if you re train a unit in a province with no armor upgrades (the unit trained has armor upgrades) the unit will lose their upgrade even if you only lost one man. Also if the unit takes 2 turns to build only one turn is required even if the unit only has one man.

Combining, and retraining units will help you to create high valor batalions. For instance I combined three units of high valor (but shattered) byz infantry, they then became a unit of 83, 3 valor (without a generals valor bonus) troops, after retraining them in Greece they were a 3 valor unit with +4 armor. This batallion was placed under a 6* general with a skilled attacker virtue. Needless to say they were very instrumental in my final conquest of Europe.

MB, in VI my units with upgrades retain those upgrades when retrained in provinces without the buildings necessary to give those upgrades.

I'm not sure about MTW 1.1, but in VI once a unit gets upgrades it keeps them no matter where it is retrained. The only things that can happen are the the unit stays the same, or if the retrianing province has better buidlings than the original training province, the unit gets the better upgrades.

Also, it is important to remember that unit of 83 Byz Inf had an average valor of 3, but each man in the unit retained his own valor from the original, sghaterred units.

ichi

[Phatose]

For patched VI I've just run a few tests. Upgrades for weapon, armor and morale are all additive, and all checked during retraining. Retrain a unit of gold weapon upgraded peasants somewhere you've got a cathedral (but no armorer/metalsmith), and you get unit of peasants with morale+3 and attack+4 (oddly though, the combat screen seems to suggest the morale+3 is actually morale +6...anybody know anything about this).

Unit damage isn't a concern. A unit of 48 armor +1 peasants retrained in a province with no armorer but a master metalsmith becomes a unit of 100 Weapon +4, armor +1 peasants.


Another thing to consider is build times. It's been stated that on huge size, units take 2 turns to build, but only 1 turn to retrain. However, expanding on that is a very simple principle - retraining always takes one turn. On normal sizes, Varangian Guard, Joms Vikings, and Berserkers all take 2 units to train, but only one to retrain. Training a unit of Varangian Guard on huge unit sizes takes a rather lengthy four years. Retraining a unit of Varangian guard, even if it's just one Guardsman, takes but a single year. To say the least, anyone playing Huge size with the Vikings has good reason to consider retraining.




I didn't get a chance to determine how valour upgrade buildings function, and though I seriously suspect they function on the level of the individual instead of the unit, I'll run some tests before I say anything for certain.

[mercian billman]

I do know that each unit retains their valor but, whenever I retrain troops they've always recieved the upgrades of the province they were retrained in, not the province they were originally raised from. Perhaps these units were very decimated (less than 50%)and they couldn't be combined with other units because the commander had a command rating. I don't remember.

It really wouldn't make sense for a +4 armor, +4 weapon unit which has been decimated to be retrained in a different province with lower quality buildings to have the new recruits equipped with the same quality weapons as the vetrans. It also doesn't make sense for the vetrans to simply abandon the use of their equipment they carried into battle, and use lower quality weapons, and armor just because the new recruits are using them.

[Tribesman]

What costs are involved in retraining or upgrading ?
Could someone tell me how it works if (a) I want to replenish a depleted unit (b) I want to upgrade a full unit

[mercian billman]

The normal cost of training is used when retraining. If you want to replenish a depleted unit you would place it in a province where they can be trained, wait until the end of the turn and then put it in the unit training cache. After the next turn it would be retrained with the provinces inherent upgrades.

[ichi]

Quote[/b] (Tribesman @ Mar. 07 2004,03:48)]What costs are involved in retraining or upgrading ?
Could someone tell me how it works if (a) I want to replenish a depleted unit (b) I want to upgrade a full unit
The cost of retraining a depleted unit depends on the number of men that are left - so if you have a 1 man unit of Mounted Sargents (unit cost = 175) then to retrain that unit to a full 40 man unit would cost about 170 florins.

If you retrain a full unit to get the better armor or weapons it costs nothing.


Quote[/b] ]I do know that each unit retains their valor but, whenever I retrain troops they've always recieved the upgrades of the province they were retrained in, not the province they were originally raised from.

This just isn't true, at least in patched VI. Retrained units keep the best of both. Phatose's tests results miatch what I have found.

ichi

[mercian billman]

Thanks Ichi I must've been playing those Byz campaigns with non patch VI. I've only recently got the patch.

[Tribesman]

Thanks ichi , I thought that might be the case with depleted units but wasn't sure , and the upgrades cost I didn't have a clue about . http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

[mcveigh]

The professional answers in this forum makes me believe i am amongst generals.

On to greater glory...