Viking Economy

[Henchman]

I am about 40 years into the viking campaign and I am having some money problems.

So far raiding has been my main source of income throughout the campaign and it has been a lot of fun and very profitable up until recently. It appears that I have already plundered and pillaged every juicy province on the coast. There is'nt a single Abbey within reach left to loot. The Christians defenses are getting more sophisticated and my raiding expeditions are getting more costly. Cost is up and profits are down... The good old pillage and burn business is'nt what it used to be.

About 15 years ago I decided to start a more traditional peaceful economy so I conqured Ireland to set up some viking settlements there. So far all my attempts to go legit has fizzled. My raiding binge has resulted in war with every faction on the map so I can't seem to get any profitable trading going. Farming is terrible and painfully slow to develop. I don't want to wait 32 years just to set up some basic farms. Also the Irish have proved to be a most troublesome people and do not seem to approve of my presence in Ireland at all. I am forced to spend considerable amounts of resources just to keep the loyalty in these provinces slightly above the rebellion boiling point. Tax revenue has as a result been abyssimal.

My projected profits for each year is in the -2000 range, so the only way to just break even is to continue raiding like a mad man. This of course is not helping me to make friends, and the pickings are getting slimmer every time I hit the beach. I am stuck in a vicious cycle.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

[Eastside Character]

LOL
Poor you. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Havent you played MTW long enough to learn that its the economy that makes things happen the way you wanted? Without steady money flow you can do nothing. When I play as the Vikings I attack/raid not more than 3 factions and settle right away. Id say its the best to start with some rebel provinces in the east, then I always go either for Saxons or Mercians.
No money - no war. The money is what matters the most, when you got the money, you got the power. Raiding and burning everything is good at the beginning, or if you do it wisely and dont mass produce some Viking Huscarles or Joms. Besides you can achieve victory only by total domination, which means you have to settle in Britain.
Dane Law my friend.

Oh, and welcome to the Org http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Regards,
EC

[Tepes]

My suggestion is to quickly completely destroy Northumbria in the first 5-6 years (before 800 AD)and settle on its lands. You may have some problems with loyalty in the first few years, but that can be solved by appointing governors and keeping taxes at very low.
Then you should proceed in conquering Mercia ( if you can) and annexing the rebel provinces in South East England. After doing this, you should stop fighting other factions and build up your economy.
At least that's what I did and I managed to have a decent economy that allowed me to restart the war later on.

[Ironside]

As the Vikings I usually raids every kingdom on the map and destroy thier infrastructure. Remember that after raiding, you simply keep your ships away from the faction for one turn to get neutral with them. Then I establish my mainland provinces in the southeast corner of England and keeps the loyalty up with cheap garrision troops. During my second pillage round across England I try to take out the Saxons and establish my kingdom to a more conventional form after that.

You can use the same principles to conquer Ireland and use it as a base.

[Sociopsychoactive]

Note, Viking Economy is an oxymoron.

They have no economy, even if you build forest clearing the first year, and basic farms immediately after that, unless you expand onto the mainland then you will be barely able to break even with a tiny army.

So, you have to expand, and yes, raiding will keep you afloat for a decade, maybe even twnety years, but thats about it, then those rich and tasty abbeys are no more and your at war with everyone, so....

I suggest you start over, you invade the rebel lands of east engle and around there, maybe a few islands if you have enough cash. Then, you use the cash from rasing those abbeys to build up those provinces a little.

There is however one flaw, they need a HUGE garrison to keep them yours. The best way of offsetting this is pagan shrines, plus watchtowers and border forts. This will allow you to reduce it to a standard 100 man governer unit in about 15-20 years, starting off needing about 500 men, maybe more for the first year or two.

BUT....

YOu don;t necessarily want to keep them loyal. If you havn;t raided on the side, then your troops have done very little killign and are looking a little wimp on the valour. So, you subdugate two of three rebel provinces, and use the most rebellious as a training ground. Those hordes of peasents and spearmen are just meat for your beserkers and huscarls, they fall before you like corn to the scyth.

With all that you should be nearly breaking even, maybe not if you havn;t built any farms yet, but your troops won;t have suffered many casualties and rading money hopefully allowed you to build some more, gearing you up for a nice war with a rish nation, and the saxons just happen to be right next to you....

The saxons and mercians almost always go to war with each other, but you may not want to wait around for them to throw the first stone.

[RZST]

usually in my viking campaigns i raid for the 1st 5 years, i conquer the 3 RICH rebel lands on the southern part of map, i then just build it up with economy stuff and ships.
after that i attack ireland, ireland it pretty rich AND almost noone will invade it since you obviously control the seas :).
after i annex ireland i go north to south, the north is easier to subjugate while the south, theres just tooo bloody many men there besides, my 3 econ provinces MIGHT get taken away from me :)

[Henchman]

Quote[/b] ]Remember that after raiding, you simply keep your ships away from the faction for one turn to get neutral with them.

Damn youre right I should read the manual more carefully. In theory you should be able to keep raiding and still start a good trade empire... Then again, this is providing you don't burn all your trade partners ports... Hmmm...

Thank you for all the suggestions. I really want to avoid having to start the campaign over. I'm going to try to see if I can get through this campaign despite my current predicament. I love a challenge, and I'm having a lot of fun with it. Being god like dominant can get booring after a while. Let's see if I can just survive.

[son of spam]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif

I think the best way to win as the vikings is to take out the Mercian/Saxons. Raid to get money first and also let the Saxons/Mercians build up (but not too much) and then take those nice juicy provinces from them. Once you take enough provs, even if they're bringing in only 100-200 apeice, you'll still get lots of money.

Also, build only karls and berserkers, they have the cheapest support costs, and your huscarls can take care of everything else.

[mercian billman]

Have you ever tried raiding further inland. By about 40-50 they should be built up pretty well. Remember if you leave a unruly province right after your raidthere will only be a small loyalist rebellion, if you leave just one unit there the loyalist rebellion will be much larger, and have better troops.

[Henchman]

Thanks for all the very helpful suggestions. Despite my woes I have managed to do ok well into the 70th year of my campaign. Believe it or not, but raiding is still my main source of income, and I have found that as long as I keep it well regulated it can still generate a decent profit. I pretty much have it down to a science now, I have a pattern that I follow to make sure I leave enough time for each province to rebuild itself before the next raid. I also keep a sharp lookout for good potential hostage victims. Even though no abbeys have been re-built, I can still get around 2000 - 5000 for a successful raid. A lot of it comes from ransoming captured nobles. It looks like I should be able to sustain myself for quite a while this way. You should see my raiding army On the surface they dont seem too intimidating, there is only about 400 of them, but their valor is through the roof. In a recent battle my 12 man beserker unit (8 valor) killed 263 enemy troops while sustaining no losses to themselves. They are amazing.

My Irish settlement is still a huge failure. There is a rebelion in Muenster every other year, and none of the provinces there generate more than a 100 florins each. I've invested in rebuilding the farming industry in all my provinces but it is taking it's time, so perhaps in another decade or two, I'll start seeing some profits. I've heard that improving farming can improve loyalty in a province. Is this true?

[mfberg]

Mid game as Vikings, how to make good money.

1. Wipe out a faction or three.

2. Leave rebels in their lands. (You have to own or be able to raid the lands next to them for this to work right, I used the Scots, Northumbrians, and Mercians for this)

3. When they reappear they have enough money to build again. Wait a little while, attack and capture their king, then wipe out the faction again the next year. Do this until you need to take the lands for the 100% solution.

(I had a 7* expert attacker by the time I finished, took out their three stack armies with my 2 Joms, 2 Huscarle, 2 Berserk, 2 archer, 2 Raider army)

mfberg

[katank]

I agree with son of spam in going after saxons or mercians.

In my vik game, I first raided everyone and then attacked the picts and managed to ransom their king three times by repeatedly trapping him.

Then, I took on the southeast rebels and the saxons.

the mercians looked scary but my 5 valour min. army of karls backed up by landsmenn and princes' and king's huscarles along with some berserks took care of everything.

The careful taking of territories for ransoming enemy kings is crucial. I find that no matter the vik or regular campaign, if you target enemy kings and princes specifically and ransom them a few times, you have enough money for anything.

once you get saxon, mercian lands as well, build up a bit and then wipe out remaining miscreants with uber joms.

[lancelot]

Do some raiding to start, then go for Ireland as soon as poss. Take the northernmost territory from scots and garrison with thralls. Ally with irish to start, build up province, then take either rebel provinces or Irish.

Once all of ireland is yours, you have a solid economic base to go a' plunderin'

[Yussuf]

The first years i split my army in two, and used the two armies to raid every province on the eastside. Then i merge the two armies in the saxon province in southwest to do the inland-tour. Starting in the southwest i try to go through as many provinces as possible without forcing the natives to meet me in battle, they usually run of when seeing my army if the have chanse, and i just looting my way northwards untill theres no more land ahead.
This inland tour usually lets me conquer ireland and all minor islands without running out of money. Building a pagan-shrine ASAP in a conquered province seems to make the population loyal alot faster than without. In Ireland i usually build up the one or two towns the irishmen had started on to produce troops, in the country side i build farms.
After conquering ireland i do a second looting round much in the same manner as the first, and then start conquering land either in the very north or southwest, depending on enemy strength mostly.

[Mablung]

As Henchman said, it is possible to build up trade. This is far more lucrative than farming and it takes less time to develop. You start off with a large fleet and no faction should be able to defeat your navy. It is quite possible to make large profits from this. I have had 5000 florin and up from just a few provinces. There are a few islands with goods that can be seized easily. A trade empire is just a different way to approach the game and quite easy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[Gregoshi]

Hello and welcome mablung. This is my heavy hand... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

[wanderingblade]

If you're running low on money, you could look at deliberately provoking rebellions, then growing rich indeed on confiscated lands. This also allows you to train up your brave fellows on the step up from straw dummies (peasants), giving you an easier time when you invade the mainland.

[Satyr]

I think one of the important facts to remember in order to do well with the Vikings is that peasants only require an upkeep of 12. In my last game as the Vikings, which I won a 100% victory in 868, I raided for income while taking the 2 islands that are not bridged to the mainland and then taking over Ireland. Then I got trade going while upgrading to be able to produce cav out of Manua, and Huscarles out of 3 other provinces. Ireland has nothing but peasants for garrison duty. Once that is done, begin the invasion. I start in the north and work my way south killing all that dare to stand in my way. If I do it right I can continue to garrison everything behind my lines with peasants, mass quantities of peasants.

[Mablung]

Thanks Gregoshi http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif
@wanderingblade, that method is not one I use as it is an easy way to get battle hardened troops without too much danger. The money also I feel is a bit like cheating as the AI (which is lacking in general) is too stupid to use this too it's advantage. Each to their own though. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

[wanderingblade]

Thats fair enough - I've only done it once, and did find it quite effective to say the least - but most of the time, I prefer finding genuine rebels, it makes me feel kinder to my people, and you're right, it does feel fairer...

[PseRamesses]

In the beginning of VI I played the vikings like any other faction, that is to conquer and keep lands. Lately I´ve changed strategy completely.
Nowdays I take Manau and use it as a naval centre which alows me to build troops in NOR and DEN. Then I just raid, raid and raid until I´ve raided through all of the Northumbrian, Mercian and Saxon provinces. When my second king emerges I settle in Domon and Orcades and use them for agent and shipbuilding thus adding Manau to my troop building provinces. It´s now time to raid the Pict, Scot and Welsh that have grown pretty strong. When my third king emerges I conquer Ireland and do a 2nd tour through NOR, MER, SAX-lands. When my fourth king emerges I take Scotland down to Cyil and Fib while a constant ongoing raiding tour in MER and SAX-lands. My fifth king takes the rest of war-torn Britain.
I´m now working on a new and even harder strategy to roleplay my vikings to make the game last to the end of the timespan and not conquer the last piece of land until the very last year.