Unlockable factions

[Boohugh]

Just so the devs know the strength of feeling on this issue, do you think we should have to play the Roman factions first to unlock the other factions?

I have read many arguments for and very many against having to unlock the non-Roman factions. Personally, I don't think we should have to unlock them, even though I intend to complete the Roman campaign first anyway. This is mainly becuase modders may find it difficult to playtest thier mods (as Duke John pointed out in another post) and I wouldn't want to have to play through the Romans (or their equivilent in a mod) to access other modded factions.

I understand that the devs may want everybody to try out the Romans first, as the most work has been put into them, but according to another poll, only 50% of us want to play as the Romans first, and many people may be put off by the unlocking feature.

Those are my opinions anyway, now to hear yours http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-gossip.gif

[Rosacrux]

No... NO... NO

RTW ain't a console arcade. And we ain't Playstation fans. No unlocking factions. Power to the gamer.



http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[The_Emperor]

No way man, I want to crush the Romans with my Carthaginian war Elephants or smash through their formations with my British Chariots...

I want to FIGHT the Romans first, not FIGHT AS the Romans first http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Monk]

No.

The one thing i had been looking forward to was controlling the Gauls, watching time commanders and seeing a few teams fail when using them made me want to try my hand in fighting with them. Rome would have been last on my playing list as Carthage and Macedon were going to be next.

I've already explained my reason for this but i shall do so here again: The main purpose was to test out the new AI. As the Gauls i would have had the sole objective of defending Europe from the Romans, i could have stayed on the defensive and checked out how the AI reacted in launching assaults, tested ambushes, did unit testing (which typer is better vs which) and watch AI tactics. I fear as a Roman faction fighting a war of conquest i may not be able to do that as i hoped.

[biguth dickuth]

I voted for NO.

For me it's a matter of freedom of choice. I will play as the romans eventually and see all the features that the developers have implemented, so their effort will not go unnoticed. However, i prefer starting the game with e.g. the Seleucids and see how a hellenistic kingdom is being played. It's just my personal choice and i wouldn't like to be "forced" to play the romans first, against my own likes.

I hope most people will agree.

[Barkhorn1x]

I voted NO - and I will play the Roman's first

I can't understand what the point is? To ensure that the Roman's get played?

Here is some simple logic;
- The hard core gamer resents gamey crap like "un-locking" factions. He (and the rare she) is going to buy R:TW for the timeframe/gameplay/graphics, etc. So why does CA wanna hack us off?
- The casual gamer is going to see ROME:TW, buy it, install it and play the Roman faction first - since he (and the even rarer she) doesn't know a Carthaginian from a Macedonian from a Gaul - but they've seen the movie Gladiator - and that was pretty cool.

So...this "unlocking" stuff really makes no sense.

Barkhorn.

[frogbeastegg]

NO Assume that is in giant big read letters, I don't want to be obnoxious and actually do that, it would hurt people's eyes http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-grin.gif

I have already explained my reasons for this but to recap the main one I don't want to have to redo a Roman campaign each and every time I reinstall RTW. STW has come and gone on my hard drive about 20 times over the years for assorted reasons, MTW about 13 times. I am a Roman addict and will play them obessively when I first get the game, but later on I will focus on other factions. If I want to reinstall RTW and play Carthaginian than I want to do precisely that, not play Rome and then move on to Carthaginian - I probably wouldn't bother reinstalling the game in the first place if that was the case.

[Sir Robin]

I vote no...

Unless there is something dramatically different about the gameplay mechanics that needs the Romans to be first it doesn't make any sense.

Hopefully if this was a final decision a dev will make a post about why they felt this was needed.

I know they are buzy tweaking and tuning but this seems to be a rather odd decision.

[Heinrich VI]

NO

Quote[/b] ]So...this "unlocking" stuff really makes no sense.


says it all.

btw: who voted yes? ^^

[Ser Clegane]

Clear NO

I hardly finished any campaigns in MTW and so far I can see no compelling reason to give away the freedom of choice to start with whatever faction I like.

Might be OK if it is just a kind of short tutorial, but I suely cannot imagine playing a full campaign with a fixed faction (in MTW I played around with a couple of faction before I started a "real" campaign with a faction I liked)

[The Witch-King]

Another vote for the "NO" side.

I want to play whatever faction I feel like playing and would strongly dislike being forced to play as the Romans first. Besides, I rarely finish a campaign, but some silly unlock feature would force me to finish a campaign as the Romans before I could play another faction like the Carthaginians or the Parthians. Not good.

[71-hour Ahmed]

nnnooooooooooooooooooooooooo.... i want to lead hordes of screaming loonies into battle not a bunch of italians in skirts.

[Rosacrux]

Quote[/b] (71-hour Ahmed @ Mar. 08 2004,15:05)]nnnooooooooooooooooooooooooo.... i want to lead hordes of screaming loonies into battle not a bunch of italians in skirts.
Funny that from a Scot http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[FesterShinetop]

NO

The reasons Frogbeastegg gave are very valid Each time you'd re-install you'd first have to play through the ROman campaign first...? That is ridiculous
I just want to play whatever faction I prefer first

Where did they get this console-like plans from??? They are beginning to scare me... I expect the "X-Box exclusive" annoouncement every day now... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-help.gif

[Sir Moody]

guyz guyz guyz if the game is modable as they claim im sure you can make "adjustments" to the Main Campaign to unlock the other factions from the get go

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (frogbeastegg @ Mar. 08 2004,19:27)]I don't want to have to redo a Roman campaign each and every time I reinstall RTW. STW has come and gone on my hard drive about 20 times over the years for assorted reasons, MTW about 13 times.
Now this is the most convincing reason of all of why the unlock feature is such a bad idea

Should we lose our savegames (be it from HD failiure, corrupted files or whatever) we will be forced to play a Roman Campaign just to get access to the other factions.

I would be really angry about having to play yet again as the Romans whenever I reinstalled the game... It would do my head in http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

[Basileus]

Quote[/b] (Rosacrux @ Mar. 08 2004,07:47)]No... NO... NO

RTW ain't a console arcade. And we ain't Playstation fans. No unlocking factions. Power to the gamer.



http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif
Amen brotha http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[The Wizard]

Big fat juicy tender NO

I have thoroughly explained myself in two threads.



~Wiz

[Nowake]

Yes, I must submit my support to the NO faction.


Hey Tosa, do you think we should have this as the .org's official "monthly" question?

[jeffreyLebowski]

total war has the most reactionary community i've ever seen. YOU MEAN I HAVE TO PLAY ONE ROMAN CAMPAIGN OF A GAME THAT I'LL PROBABLY END UP PLAYING HUNDREDS OF CAMPAIGNS IN???? OH NOES THE END IS NIGH. jesus christ. someone get the sand out of these guys' vaginas.

[Sir Robin]

The issues for me is not so much having to play the Romans first as having to "complete" a campaign as the Romans before being able to play another faction.

How many "Early" MTW campaigns have you played until the end and won?

If you have how long did it take you? Days, weeks, or even months?

If I recall the game covers several centuries with two turns per year. Unless the gameplay is dramatically different how long do you think it will take you to finish the required Roman campaign?

Apparently, until you finish the Roman campaign no other faction will be available to play.

The best thing about open-ended games is that once you get tired of playing one faction you can just start up a game as a different faction.

If a part of the game that most fans expected to be in is removed then it raises questions about the other "features" as well.

Having a variety of factions to choose from "at the beginning" was part of both STW and MTW. Losing this feature starts "violating my territorial bubble" for many fans.

Still this may just be a misunderstanding or the gameplay could be so different that it won't take days or weeks to finish a campaign.

Unfortunately all we can do for now is wait and, do what humanity does best, worry.

[Nelson]

Install the game, insert an initial Roman campaign saved at the brink of victory (your own or downloaded), finish the campaign, unlock the factions.

A minor pain in the ass but not the end of the world.

[jeffreyLebowski]

i don't know, i got the impression that campaigns are not going to take nearly as long to complete in RTW as they did in previous TW games. i remember the devs mentioning that they wanted campaigns people could play in quote "a couple of nights." that doesn't sound that long to me... which is fine in my opinion, since the late game of MTW campaigns becomes somewhat lame.

[Sir Robin]

That is the impression, but then again there was also the impression that you did not have to "unlock" the other factions.

From everything we have heard so far the strategic portion of the game is still turn based with two turns per year. Roughly five hundred and fifty turns beginning to end with the option of playing on after 14 AD.

Some management issues will be easier with the AI "governor" option. Which will hopefully not be as terrible as MOO3's. Still many players will want to review their own and their enemies' military and economic strength each turn.

Without a battle or serious thinking you are looking at about two minutes a turn minimum. So without a single battle and only quick look sees it will take a minimum of one thousand one hundred minutes or about eighteen and a half hours to finish one campaign.

Try to fight battles/seiges, tweak your economy/military build qeues, negotiate with other factions, and maneuver into becoming the Imperator and you could be taking an average of five to ten minutes, probably more per turn.

So your average campaign from beginning to end could take anywhere from forty-six to ninety-two hours or more of "uninterrupted" playtime. Consider that with spouse and kids involved many fans of STW and MTW can only spare about ten hours or so a week to play.

So playing when we can and "not" micro-managing or reloading to test different tactics it will take roughly four to nine weeks to finish a RTW campaign.

I do not want to spend four to nine weeks playing as the Romans just so I can play as the Carthaginians.

Yes I could just download a hopefully virus-free saved game. It just feels like an inconvenience that should not have been created in the first place.

[The Wizard]

Quote[/b] (jeffreyLebowski @ Mar. 10 2004,13:32)]total war has the most reactionary community i've ever seen. YOU MEAN I HAVE TO PLAY ONE ROMAN CAMPAIGN OF A GAME THAT I'LL PROBABLY END UP PLAYING HUNDREDS OF CAMPAIGNS IN???? OH NOES THE END IS NIGH. jesus christ. someone get the sand out of these guys' vaginas.
What was that for?

Anyway, Sir Robin is correct in his more elaborate census of the thoughts of most people about this option.



~Wiz

[Nelson]

Quote[/b] (The Wizard @ Mar. 10 2004,14:21)]Anyway, Sir Robin is correct in his more elaborate census of the thoughts of most people about this option.
Yeah, but jeff was correct in his brief but colorful description regarding the actual gravity of the situation http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[The Wizard]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif



~Wiz

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (jeffreyLebowski @ Mar. 10 2004,14:32)]total war has the most reactionary community i've ever seen. YOU MEAN I HAVE TO PLAY ONE ROMAN CAMPAIGN OF A GAME THAT I'LL PROBABLY END UP PLAYING HUNDREDS OF CAMPAIGNS IN???? OH NOES THE END IS NIGH. jesus christ. someone get the sand out of these guys' vaginas.
There is no need for this.
Yes, so it is perhaps a bit oversensitive, but there are some good arguments against this feature. Apart from the fact that a lot of players don't finish many campaigns, this could cause problems for modders or people who uninstall and reinstall their game out of disk-space or similar issues. Yes, you can easily solve by uploading a nearly finished save game, but why would CA bother to do this in the first place?

Personally, I don't care that I first have to finish a Roman campaign. But I would like to know the answer to question I stated above:
Why does CA do this?

[jeffreyLebowski]

first of all, i'm just making light of the seriousness with which some people view these games. i love the total war series just as much as the next guy, but some of these people hear one rumor or mention of a feature they don't like, and they act like the entire CA development crew shit in their cereal. just a joke.

second of all, i think someone proposed the idea that the first campaign will serve as a structured introduction to all the new features of RTW and whatnot. i'm not sure if that's the case, but it sounds reasonable.

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (jeffreyLebowski @ Mar. 11 2004,21:15)]first of all, i'm just making light of the seriousness with which some people view these games. i love the total war series just as much as the next guy, but some of these people hear one rumor or mention of a feature they don't like, and they act like the entire CA development crew shit in their cereal. just a joke.
I see. There is some truth in what you say, but you might have worded it a bit more polite.


Quote[/b] ]second of all, i think someone proposed the idea that the first campaign will serve as a structured introduction to all the new features of RTW and whatnot. i'm not sure if that's the case, but it sounds reasonable.
Yes, that sounds reasonable. But why wouldn't Captain Fishpants add that the first, obligatory, campaign will be "just" a tutorial, in stead of just bluntly saying that you first have to win as the Romans? Anyway, if they would do this, they could just make it optional (but enabled standardly).

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] ]total war has the most reactionary community i've ever seen. YOU MEAN I HAVE TO PLAY ONE ROMAN CAMPAIGN OF A GAME THAT I'LL PROBABLY END UP PLAYING HUNDREDS OF CAMPAIGNS IN???? OH NOES THE END IS NIGH. jesus christ. someone get the sand out of these guys' vaginas.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif onboard http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-rolleyes.gif

[Sir Robin]

There is still to little known about how the gameplay of RTW "will" be.

I hope I am wrong and we are just misunderstanding what CA is doing.

I hope that if we do have to play the Romans first there is a good gameplay-mechanics or AI-coding reason behind it.

Essentially we just have to wait and see.

However if this is based on a marketing decision or surveyed "test group" then I disagree with their decision.

Of course they are making the game and will do what they feel is best for gameplay, to satisfy what they feel the public wants, and what can be done to make the accessible to the widest audience possible.

Though in many ways this is a labour of love it is also a business.

Questioning, suggesting, and discussing is why boards exist.

I will probably buy RTW as soon as it is released and just save up if my current computer can't run it.

No harm, no foul, and no offense...

[Pindar]

Has there been any official comment on why CA would do this?

[falaffel]

This is a very silly idea, I have a hard time thinking who they are going to please with this "feature". But perhaps we'll get cheatcodes from the devs in advance.

/ Falaffel

[The Sword of Cao Cao]

HELL NO

[crazyviking03]

I was just thinking, maybe what they mean is that its like a tutorial, in that you have to complete some stuff with
Romans so that you learn the game, then entire game is unlocked. Its a new trend with video games now, making you complete tutorials. I dont really like it too much, but just wondering if that is what this is, not neccesarily us unlocking each individual faction like a stupid race car game. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-anxious.gif sorry if someone already said this, I didnt read the whole thread... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-smile.gif

[Sir Robin]

It has been mentioned that they might be talking about "tutorials."

I also think they may be talking about unlocking factions "ingame," basically as you encounter them.

IIRC it was stated in a preview and by a dev on the board that you would have to "complete" a "Roman" campaign to "unlock" other factions.

However no details regarding this have been elaborated on. So in the meantime I just hope we are misunderstanding what has been hinted at or their is a darn good reason, mechanics/coding wise, for this to be necessary.

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (Sir Robin @ Mar. 21 2004,04:38)]I also think they may be talking about unlocking factions "ingame," basically as you encounter them.
I think this will not be the case, because:

1) It would make the unlocking of factions random.

2) If there is a weak eastern faction, you probably won't be able to unlock it since it will get destroyed before you encounter it. At least, in your first game. So, you most likely have to play two games before you have unlocked all factions.

3) I really don't see why they should go through a lot of coding to add this feature. I simply don't see its purpose.
I think CA has a reason to lock the other factions, and that reason is most likely that the first campaign will be an extended tutorial. Annoying, but useful.
If we assume that is true, then all other factions will be locked until you complete it. Locking them until you meet them doesn't make sense from that point of view.

[RisingSun]

It's ludicrous and stupid. I am dumbfounded by CA's lack of vision on this one.

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (RisingSun @ Mar. 21 2004,14:32)]It's ludicrous and stupid. I am dumbfounded by CA's lack of vision on this one.
I have to agree with you. Ludicrous and stupid are the right words... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-bigcry.gif

[jean_s]

NO...all the way:)

[Lazul]

NOOOO... two no times ten NOOOOO http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[rory_20_uk]

No.

I detest all games that have the "unlock" feature. I bought the damn thing to use as I see fit, not for some pimply sunlight allergic socially inept subhuman to dictate how and when I play the game.

It's a shame if the sides are noticably "Romans and some others to kill" - although as soon as I get the game I'm coming back here ASAP to see what the modders have done with it :)

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

[Monk]

EDIT: Ignore what i said before...CA just confirmed you have to "unlock" 7 non roman factions http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious2.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif

[Mouzafphaerre]

-
Stupid console stuff. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif I hope it's easilly modded-out.
_

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

That settles it then. They won't be getting my money... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[Ellesthyan]

Oh my god, they really did it? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif
Man, you'd almost start to think that they are trying to make this game CRAP on purpose http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

So we have to play as one of the roman factions first? That sucks, i'll probably be modding this thing before i play it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I know thats not the point, i hope this will change because although it might be seen as expanding the game, it might do the opposite and people will get bored of the game which can't be allowed to happen.

[Longshanks]

I'm glad I planned on playing & winning as the Romans first. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Monk]

Quote[/b] (Ellesthyan @ April 06 2004,09:58)]Oh my god, they really did it? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif
Man, you'd almost start to think that they are trying to make this game CRAP on purpose http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif
Yes they did, in the PC zone mag one of the devs said plain and simple "you must complete the game with one of the three Roman factions to unlock 7 more". It makes no sense to me, they never locked factions before, so why start now? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif


Quote[/b] ]I know thats not the point, i hope this will change because although it might be seen as expanding the game, it might do the opposite and people will get bored of the game which can't be allowed to happen.

That sums it up quite nicely. I know of nobody who likes limitations in games of this kind. the thing that made me buy STW and MTw was the fact that such things were non existent, i didn't have to earn anything, i could play with my own goals and at my own pace.



Quote[/b] ]Stupid console stuff. I hope it's easily modded-out.


Let's hope indeed, if not then i'm sure somebody will submit an almost finished savegame allowing us to complete a roman campaign in one turn. But the point is WE shouldn't have to be doing this. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif

[The_Emperor]

*stands still like the King of Rohan*

How did it come to this???...

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Quote[/b] (The_Emperor @ April 06 2004,14:12)]*stands still like the King of Rohan*

How did it come to this???...
Truer words haven't ever been spoken... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-cry.gif

[neogerry]

lol http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Tricky Lady]

Quote[/b] (Monk @ April 05 2004,23:51)]EDIT: Ignore what i said before...CA just confirmed you have to "unlock" 7 non roman factions http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious2.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif Unlocking 7 factions?? Oh my God, this is even worse than what I thought... I mean, unlocking one or two factions is not fun, but I wouldn't have bothered my either (I would start playing a Roman faction first anyway).
But 7 factions??? I would take seven months before I've unlocked them all... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif
If this is true, and if there are too many fantasy units, I'd rather stick to MTW... I'm disappointed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-cry.gif

[Monk]

Quote[/b] (Tricky Lady @ April 07 2004,17:21)]
Quote[/b] (Monk @ April 05 2004,23:51)]EDIT: Ignore what i said before...CA just confirmed you have to "unlock" 7 non roman factions http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious2.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/pissed.gif
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif Unlocking 7 factions?? Oh my God, this is even worse than what I thought... I mean, unlocking one or two factions is not fun, but I wouldn't have bothered my either (I would start playing a Roman faction first anyway).
But 7 factions??? I would take seven months before I've unlocked them all... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif
If this is true, and if there are too many fantasy units, I'd rather stick to MTW... I'm disappointed. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-cry.gif
If i've read CA's words right, by completing the game once you unlock them all. (that's of course, if i read that right)

[The Wizard]

Well, there goes my interest in the Roman factions...

[SwordsMaster]

3 factions to unlock 7...Logic says it should be the other way around if something....

Anyway, if you have to unlock factions im sure the devs will provide a cheat to do that...

BTW, after reading the unlocking thread, i realized that devs could ve short for developers bu also for devils...They are evil.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-inquisitive.gif

[RisingSun]

I still.... I just don't... WHY???

*cries* http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/angry.gif

[Crazed Rabbit]

NO NEIN NYET

Of all the terrible ideas to screw their game over with...
It's like Wally in Dilbert with his doing antiwork for all the work he does. Some talk of downloading a saved game, but WHY SHOULD WE HAVE TO DO THAT TO USE THE GAME WE PAID FOR?????

I've never completed a campaign in MTW, as I get somewhat bored after I'm the only superpower left. So it's a good bet I might never finish a Roman campaign, dooming me forever to play as them or grind through weeks of annihilating the tiny little countries in the far corners of the map.

If they ship it like this, I don't think I'll buy it. I mean, what's the point?

And they say it will be the best game yet for modders, bah

Crazed Rabbit

[Warmaker]

I intend to play the Romans first. As long as nothing gets in my way of doing so, I'll be happy.

[The_Emperor]

According to what I have heard about the Imperial campaign you don't need to conquer the whole map.

When you get large enough aparrantly the second part of the game kicks in where you have to compete with the senate for power...

[Chimpyang]

I wonder what would happen if the Devs saw these threads and decided to hard-code it into the game......no no..(never tempt fate)

[RisingSun]

Well considering some of the stupid things we've heard so far, it's almost like they are trying to drive this game into the ground...

[Haethurn]

Why, I think unlockable factions is the best darned idea ever Who would want to play as those loser Carthaginians, anyways? Hah, hah, they lost the Punic Wars because they sucked. Only a loser would want to play as a loser faction, and that's the truth I wouldn't want to play as those stupid Carthaginians or Macedonians or Gauls...I want to be big Rome and kill all of those little people. And I am so glad that CA is forcing everyone else to do just that Maybe once they play as the Romans they will realize how wrong they are about unlockable factions, and they will understand why it really is a great idea and should be implemented in any further titles in the Total War series.

By the way, this stuff about gamers having the freedom to play who they want to play as first is simply nonsense That's not how you're supposed to play a game. You're supposed to play a game exactly how the developer wants you to play it. And CA wants you to play as the Romans first, so you should all accept that and stop complaining about it, because that is really lame, man.

Honestly, PC games allow too much freedom, nowadays. They should be more like console games. I think CA is doing a really good job with the unlockable factions in R: TW. It is so much better than M:TW where you would be playing as the Italians and thinking to yourself, "Should I attack the Germans or the Hungarians?" That's way too much freedom for any gamer to handle. I spent five hours making that decision and then I just got killed by the stupid Germans. That's why Medieval: Total War sucked and that's why Rome: Total War is going to rock so much: it's because of the unlockable factions. The developer should guide you through the game like a mother guides her child across the street. Otherwise you'll just get confused and you won't know what to do or who to attack next or what is what or who is who or anything. You'd just be all messed up. They should just give you a certain amount of troops and tell you that you get to attack this province and it has a certain number of troops and it's always the same so you never get confused and you always know what's coming up next, and maybe if you beat the battle in under five minutes you will unlock a secret bonus level. That would be awesome It could be a Pac-Man minigame where Pac-Man is a legionaire and the ghost dudes are Ostrogoths and if you get a really high score you instantly get like tons of money and ten thousand extra troops that you can use to fight those loser Carthaginians with when you get back into the main game. The troops could be a really cool fantasy unit like 500-man gladiator units or even a super-centurion unit that is like a ninja and can kill fifty of those loser Carthaginian war elephants and knock down city walls in five seconds. Jesus that would be so cool

I VOTE YES and I will buy Rome: Total War because Gladiator was a really cool movie even though I didn't understand what it was about and the game has really super cool graphics and it's about ROME That is so cool even though history sucks and isn't important. But that's why they have to add neat stuff like gladiators into the game to make it interesting. Lol who would play a game that was just about legionaries and barbarians that would suck so much.