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Duke John
03-08-2004, 14:03
Foreword
A few months ago I made an attempt at the NET to make a community mod designed for MP and it failed, because it was meant to redesign all the armylists and it would also needed a seperate installation.
However I am a stubborn guy and will not give up my quest to provide the community a balanced game with historical graphics to boot. My aim is to find a balance between game-play and historical accuracy, some people may not like that, but since this mod will not provide me any income, I will care very little for the consumers who only play for winning. The last few months (with some pauses) I have been working on and developing a mod about the Wars of the Roses, below is a first draft of the mod.

Introduction
"The Wars of the Roses, lasting from 1455 to 1487, were a dynastic struggle between the houses of York and Lancaster, and involved only the aristocratic families of these houses and their followers. Rather than a civil war, these campaigns represented a prolonged struggle for power between two political parties, both of which accepted the unity of the kingdom and the existing system of government by King, Council and Parliament.
Thus the wars were fought by the great barons with the aid of their private armies. "
[Source: The Wars of the Roses by Osprey Publishing]

Now why makes this the Wars of the Roses interesting for multiplay? The WotR were not so much about conquering regions or besieging cities and castles. The aim was to overcome the rival house by defeating them in field battles. If they had no army left then they would pose no threat. So the WotR are mainly about pitched battles and that is what most of us do in mp.
The armies pitched against each other were also mainly of the same composition so that will make the mod relatively easy to balance. You can compare it to Shogun, with each faction having the same unit selection.

The factions
As said before all the factions will be the same. For some this will be dull, but remember that mod is just another period that you can select, you won't be restricted to play only this mod. Because of the armylists you will require (slightly) different tactics and amend your playing style. While some of you might not be up to this kind of change, this mod is also not meant for those.
Unlike normal M:TW factions are now not named after countries but after kings, barons and dukes that were able raise personal armies.

The armies
First some technicalities to better explain the limited amount of units. VI allows 10 custom BIFs, which are used to display units on the battlefield. So I can add 10 new models.
When making new unitgraphics you can either choose to render weapons together with the soldier or place them afterwards using coordinates. The latter is very, very laborous and takes weeks to do it reasonably well. Even CA makes mistakes with this, just look at Swabian Swordsmen for a good example.
I choose to render the weapons together with the soldier. This will take more time to animate, but I am done after the rendering, so I will save alot of time. In my eyes it also looks better, but since a picture is worth a thousand words:
http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/screens/wotr_menatarms_charge.jpg
This is how the Squires will look like, although the model will be edited a bit.

Before someone suggests to use existing unitgraphics for this mod: NO, I really dislike the looks of the units. CA did put so much effort into S:TW and then they give medieval soldiers football shirts. The units are also not representable for the timeperiod, remember my love for historical accuracy. I have a couple of books that cover the period and I am doing my utmost best to make the models as realistic as possible.

And now the unitselection that I have come up with. Please take in mind that the tactics used during the Wars of the Roses were slightly different than on the mainland. The longbow ruled supreme as missile troop, and the common use of anti-cavalry weapons such as the bill, pike and poll axe made cavalry a rare sight on the battlefield.

Standard infantry

Billmen
Men: 100
Equipment: bill
Attack: good
Defense: moderate
Armour: moderate
Comments: This unit is meant to hold the line, the armour piercing bill will help the unit to put a decent fight against armoured units. Do not see this unit as normal Billmen but as a spearmen unit, it will get a rankbonus since normal infantry relied on each other for protection. Billmen will also get slower turning speeds to take the large formation into account.

Pikemen
Men: 100
Equipment: Pike
Attack: bad
Defense: excellent
Armour: good/moderate
Comments: Pikemen have a similar role compared to Billmen, but are not that good at killing. They excel however in keeping the enemy at bay using their long pikes and they will hold the line for a long time. This comes at a cost, Pikemen are even slower in turning and they rely heavily on rank bonus to remain effective. A flank charge will probably spell doom.

Halberdiers
Men: 60
Equipment: Halberd
Attack: Good
Defense: Good
Armour: Good
Comments: Halberdiers are meant as a inbetween. They are not that good at holding a line because of their numbers, and they are also not that good at attacking as Men-at-Arms. However they are better at flanking since they do not need to hold formation. You should see them as a relatively cheap way to protect a flank.

Men-at-Arms

Squires
Men: 40
Equipment: Pollaxe
Attack: excellent
Defense: excellent
Armour: excellent
Comments: Squires can cut up any unit, however their small size will make not a certain bet against Pikemen and Billmen if sent unsupported.

(Foot) Knights
Men: 40
Equipment: Bastard sword
Attack: Excellent
Defense: Excellent
Armour: Excellent
Comments: Nobles were forced to fight on foot to avoid having them flee at the slightest setback. Knights are similar to Squires, but are slightly better and have even better morale. Ideal for holding the line no matter what. This unit will be pretty expensive though.
Some of you may frown upon this unit, but this unit is not put in just to add another choice, but to be a representable general unit for historical battles and for the players who want to stay in character.

Cavalry

Mounted Men-at-Arms
Men: 40
Equipment: Lance and cavalry hammer
Attack: excellent
Defense: excellent
Armour: excellent
Comments: Because of the many anti-cav units caution is advised when using this unit. A well placed flank charge is still a very effective way to collapse a flank.

'Prickers'
Men: 40
Equipment: lance
Attack: bad (excellent charge)
Defense: moderate
Armour: good
Comments: Prickers were used at the back of the army to discourage soldiers from deserting. They were also used to pursue the enemy once it started to rout. Since armies are mainly composed of infantry it is wise to keep this unit as a reserve specifically for pursueing at which it excels because of its great speed and an excellent charge.

Missile troops

Longbows
Men: 100
Equipment: sword and buckler
Attack: bad
Defense: bad
Armour: moderate
Comments: English armies had alot of longbows, to reflect this a 100 unit will provide enough longbows without the need of selecting 4 units. In other words, you can have the same amount missiles but with more slots left to fill with combat troops.
This unit is not that good at combat but because of its numbers it can swarm an unit, which is how it went in history.

Armoured Longbows
Men: 60
Equipment: hand axe
Attack:moderate
Defense:moderate
Armour:good
Comments: This unit should act like an hybrid. In most battles the longbows would first fire their arrows after which the infantry moved forward through their ranks. After combat was initiated, the longbows joined to strengthen the line.

Handgunners
Men: 60
Equipment: arquebus
Attack: bad
Defense: bad
Armour: moderate
Comments: Not really reliable, but the fearcausing effect can help in routing unit that has been a target practice for longbows.

Demi-Culverins
Men: 12 crew
Equipment: demi-culverin
Attack: bad
Defense: bad
Armour: bad
Comments: the cost of this unit will be high enough to avoid homing-missiles at high valour. This unit is mainly put in for sieges.

Balancing the stats
What I conclude from the many discussions on disbalance is that upgrading the units with valour makes certain units better in a way that we do not want. Units are not choosen on common sense (rock paper scissors), but on the knowledge of the upgrade formula. The stats of the units should reflect their combat ability and their cost is an important factor to keep that combat ability on most valour levels.

One way I want to achieve this is by giving some units the same cost. For example Billmen and Pikemen perform a similar role but have slight differences. These differences should be big enough that they cannot be countered by upgrading. Since both units cost the same, the player is forced to think about what kind of unit he wants to hold his line. He should not be able to take in consideration that Pikemen are a better buy at valour 3 compared to Billmen.

Morale
A lot of the upgrading is done to gain the necessary morale of 8. Most of the units will have a high enough starting morale to be reliable enough at valour 0 or 1. To avoid ubersoldiers by upgrading them to valour 4, the units will also have a higher starting cost compared to normal M:TW.

Movement
Besides the changed manueverability of certain units (Pikemen, Billmen) this mod will also lose the slow moving rates of heavily armoured units. Armies in the WotR are mainly composed of infantry and that means slow army movement. Together with the removal of pavs will this help keeping games fast paced and not transform them into a crawl.

Shooting contest
At the moment most games start with a shooting contest. Nothing wrong with this, since it helps players to position their armies before clashing into each other. All of the battles during the Wars of the Roses also started with shooting. The longbows were lethal on the mainland but they now cancelled each other out, but still they forced the infantry to move forward since nobody could endure the rain of arrows for long. That is probably except for the Men-At-Arms; armour production was now at its height and arrows could rarely penetrate plate if it struck at an angle.
With the exclusion of pavs, you can now quickly destroy a missile line with a cavalry unit. If you still want to do this after taking into consideration the AP arrows and anti-cav infantry is up to you.

Since longbows go through their arrows quickly it will be a tactical decision on how long do you want to continue. Save a few arrows to thin the infantry ranks, or continue shooting the enemy missile to lessen casualities when you advance your line. With pavs this problem didn't exist since they lasted the entire battle.

Will this mod make other periods impossible to play?
This mod will be fully compatible with MP and does not interfere with a regular installation of M:TW - VI. It will be an additional period to select. Note that it probably will not be compatible with another mod, although it will work with CBR's mod.

My last words
And now I hope that this mod I am working catches your attention and that you share my view that a slighly different unit selection provides interesting battles and is not more of the same.
I am very interested in your opinions, do you think it will work? Is the community too conversative to download the mod? Is the armylist seriously flawed? Still if you heavily disagree I am still interested in your opinion as long it can help in making a better mod.

I will also need the help of the community to balance the armylist, it is relatively small so it won't be that much work. However the balance is vital to back up everything I said above, so if players, who have knowledge on how the game-mechanics work, want to help then please post.

Thanks for your attention,
Duke John

Puzz3D
03-08-2004, 15:30
Duke John.

Sounds interesting, and I'll be glad to help in online testing to get the unit balance you want. Also, almost everyone in my clan is interested in playing mods.

I think CBR has solved the upgrade and morale issues in his mod, and you could use the same techniques in yours. Having units move a little faster will reduce fatigue which should help with gameplay.

CBR
03-08-2004, 15:45
The graphics look impressive http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Although Im currently busy with my own mod I can help if its needed.

If units have same cost then you have to ensure that the unit is actually worth the cost. At least that will mean that all units have a role and will be used although the total number of units might be a bit limited...dont know.

Im a strong believer in playing with no or as few upgrades as possible and you might not agree with that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

In my older MPwars mod I also had a limited choice of units but made them in several sizes (spears of 80/100/120 men for example) That gave the player the opportunity to make many different armies. MPwars was also a game of no/few upgrades and IMO it worked fine. That is one way of doing it.

STW also didnt have many units but had no hardcoded 4 unit max as MTW and upgrades were cheaper (although horrible unbalanced upgrade cost)

Upgrading is costly so if units have same cost you will most likely see all units with same amount of upgrades. Otherwise you will see the same effect as MTW/STW where the cheapest units gets the most upgrades to make all units af nearly same cost.

If you say play at 10k and all unit cost were 500 then you would only have 2k for upgrades and cant give it to all. That should make some variation I guess.

But there might be other things you can do...thats just me making a quick post. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif


And another thing. You might as well expect the worst. The community is very conservative and lazy. Make a mod for the sake of your own interest. Never count on it being played much. If it actually will be played then thats just a bonus. Sad but true.

In the near future I plan a tournament for my mod hoping that might increase the interest. But its not like Im counting on a landslide heh.

Recreating historical battles might get some interest in using the mod too..


CBR

Duke John
03-08-2004, 16:15
Puzz3D
Thanks for the offer For the coming days I will be mainly working on the units so that I can show that this mod earnest. If the rest of your clan is willing to help too it will probably go quickly since a clan is better at setting up battles (or so I hope). Again many thanks

CBR


Quote[/b] ]Im a strong believer in playing with no or as few upgrades as possible and you might not agree with that
I had hoped that that point came across, but apparently it didn't. I am also a strong believer that upgrades should be left out as much as possible.

It always remains possible, but hopefully we can make the unitcosts so high that upgrades are not favourable compared to naked troops. I don't know how the unitcosts are calculated so I must admit that I am not sure about this.


Quote[/b] ]You might as well expect the worst. The community is very conservative and lazy. Make a mod for the sake of your own interest. Never count on it being played much. If it actually will be played then thats just a bonus. Sad but true.
I know... but I simply love the Wars of the Roses period. If this mod fails to be popular then I would have at least a game that is completly customized at my hearts content.
Making the models is the bit that I love to do, I can look for hours at images drawn Graham Turner in the Osprey books, spotting little details and modelling them.

If I can convince just a few people with whom I can play just a few games I am already a happy man.

But I also that my/new unitgraphics sell. From my experience with H:TW and ME:TW I know that loads of players appreciate the detail and hopefully that will be enough to convince downloading them.
To help "selling" the mod I might make trailers to let players see how it looks ingame. At ME:TW, Aldaeron made a very simple trailer and it somehow got on gamespy, in the meantime it has been downloaded over 1000 times. ME:TW also got a review in a French magazine. A good "marketing" may help, if it will work is something for the future.

I think your mod, while balancing the game, really misses something fresh and exciting to convince the community. In my eyes it's a bit dry, the only change are some numbers. I am convinced that your mod helps balancing the game, veteran and clan members are/will also be convinced. The regular player however only sees a txt file that promises better games, but they can see nothing. People are visually oriented, just think of all the games who good graphics but have the worst gameplay. Do not see this as negative critism.


Quote[/b] ]Recreating historical battles might get some interest in using the mod too..
Historical battles will certainly be included at some point. The Osprey books have some great 3D maps depicting troop movements and I can't wait to converting them to M:TW

CBR
03-08-2004, 16:33
Oh yes my mod has the problem of nothing obviously new about it. Graphics will definitely help in selling a mod.

I just dont have the patience working on graphics (although I wish I had) and most importantly I wanted the mod to be as easy as possible to install and uninstall. I have also encountered weird problems for people even when a mod is made as simple as possible to install. So right now the mod is working on the KISS principle heh

I have been looking at the units that modders have made so far and Im very tempted at using some. But then there is also the STW mod. My mod still works with that installed...a few changes and then it cant. Maybe STW mod wont be used much online so I should care less about that..but as you see there is always lots of things to worry about. Between a rock and a hard place heh

Edit:BTW Im a Mizu too http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

CBR

CBR
03-08-2004, 16:50
Oh yes about upgrades and unitcost:

Right now a valor upgrade cost only a tiny bit more than what a good (same stat increase as a valor upgrade) unit would cost compared to a weak unit. So right now its easy to pump up the weaker units. I have changed the unitcost formula to make most upgrading a lot less worth it. Still making tweaks to it as its not perfect..but thats another story.

You can download the excel sheets that CA used to calculate the costs. link (http://www.mizus.com/Files/k0rgs8gVt/MTW/Stats/MTW_Prod_Files.zip)

If you dont want to mess with that I can quickly calculate the unitcosts.


CBR

Duke John
03-08-2004, 20:29
CBR

Quote[/b] ]I have also encountered weird problems for people even when a mod is made as simple as possible to install.
Yes, making the installation foolproof is probably the hardest thing to do. Even when you think it can't be clearer people still come questions, I have seen that enough with the ME:TW beta: "ME:TW beta is only for the English version of MTW1.1 and only for custom battles."
And they come up with: "hello i have problems with campaign" or "your mod give an error with VI" or after alot of pulling out some background they give the answer that they installed over a translated installation. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-no.gif

However someone put a link a while ago about a freeware installer, and I am planning to use that. Still need to look into the details though.


Quote[/b] ]So right now the mod is working on the KISS principle
Que?


Quote[/b] ]If you dont want to mess with that I can quickly calculate the unitcosts.
I have the excel sheets sitting on my HD for quite a while. I never have the time to really dive into it, so if you want to help me with it, then it will very appreciated.

Cheers, Duke John

TosaInu
03-08-2004, 22:06
Hello Duke John,

Great unit graphics.
There are 10 new units, if I counted correctly and the culverin is skipped and each unit uses a new BIF. That means that the 10 custom BIF folders can be used -> this is an add-on mod and not a new install. More easy: the convenience will help to get it adopted.

http://www.clickteam.com/English/index.php it's possible to use registry parameters.
http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin....ickteam (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=5;t=3152;hl=clickteam)
This means that the install will be very easy too (provided it's English of course). There will be a few necessary loc files (German, Italian, French ..), you could simply ask gamers to submit their version and append the international descriptions to it. Perhaps some people will even translate text (though I guess there won't be much to translate). Pack them into another installer and you have a language pack for other versions.

CBR
03-08-2004, 22:48
KISS: Keep it Simple, Stupid.


Quote[/b] ]I have the excel sheets sitting on my HD for quite a while. I never have the time to really dive into it, so if you want to help me with it, then it will very appreciated.

Sure no problem. Just need some stats now http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif



CBR

Duke John
03-08-2004, 23:18
It seems that the whole Mizu clan is here http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Tosa
Actually I will merge the artillery crew and the handgunners together into one bif. Since they share the charge, fight and die animation I would only need to add 2 more animations for the crew; standing and walking (running will use the charging animation since the crew will be standing still for 99% of the battle).


Quote[/b] ]http://www.clickteam.com/English/index.php it's possible to use registry parameters.
That is the program I was talking about, thanks for pointing out that it actually works.

CBR
Great I will make a beta then that does not contain any new unitgraphics but it will give you the opportunity to work with all the units.

Cheers, Duke John

TosaInu
03-09-2004, 10:36
That's great Duke John, it can be made to utilise the 10 custom BIF folders then. This allows creation of an add-on mod, or am I overlooking something?

Duke John
03-09-2004, 10:58
No, you are correct. This mod can be regarded as a add-on. The first release will be without a campaign map though. It will feature 11 new units (with unitgraphics exclusively made for this mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif ), historical campaigns and battles and it will be fully compatible with a standard MTW:VI installation.

Cheers, Duke John

Puzz3D
03-09-2004, 14:20
We know how to make corpses visible for new units, but new graphics would be required in DEAD256.tga to have them match the unit graphics and death animation. I'm not sure that anyone has tried to do that.

Duke John
03-10-2004, 10:29
Quote[/b] ]I'm not sure that anyone has tried to do that.
Wellington has made a tool specifically for adding dead bodies. I have yet to try it, but he said it worked, so...

CBR
I am curious about your view on upgrading units:

Quote[/b] ]Im a strong believer in playing with no or as few upgrades as possible and you might not agree with that
I agree with this, since we intent to give units a certain role on the battlefield and it would a waste of hard work if that role would become obselete because another upgraded unit is cheaper and better.
But that does mean that units should be viable at valour 0 or 1. What is your opinion of the starting morale? Morale 6 for standard infantry, 8/10 for MAA and cav, 2/4 for missile?

I think morale 6 is regarded as the minimum for combat units. A single valour upgrade will make standard infantry very reliable (especially because of their large size). 3 upgrades should be so horrendeously expensive that is not worth the florins.

Cheers, Duke John

CBR
03-10-2004, 13:29
Morale is of course a matter of taste: how much attritional v maneuver warfare do you want.

And also depends on how the attack value is compared to the defense value. An example is spears as they can fight for a long time even with lower morale because of their high defense value...as long as they dont fight units that have very high combat power compared to the spears. Spear morale does feel low when they face swords that has on valor more.

In the Community mod I have given all units +2 morale and a morale range of 2-10 works fine there. So if you give units the morale 6-10 you mentioned I dont think they need more. I would start with 4 for lower quality 100 men units and 8 or 10 for best units..your billmen have rankbonus so it gives them more defense, but it depends on the base combat stats you give them.

If a missile unit is not meant for any fighting it doesnt need that high morale. But if you want to make sure they only run after taking heavy losses and/or being attacked then 2-4 should do the trick.


CBR

Duke John
03-10-2004, 16:03
Ok, I have finished making a beta version of the Wars of the Roses expansion. The campaign will crash, but all the units are in for custom and mp battles. I have added temporary unitgraphics that I made some months ago. They will all be replaced with new and better versions so don't worry about them.

I have made some stats, but they are in no sense definitive. I am not that good at making them up, but they should provide a good clue on how the units should compare to each other. I did some tests though and the units did seem to work reasonably. Pikes can hold and win in the beginning but lose in the end, regular longbows and handguns were decimated and fled quickly once charged by the prickers. Even on valour 0 they were all dependable on their own task.

Puzz3D and CBR
Do you have some sparetime to playtest and adjust the stats? If you do, then I will upload the beta and give you the url via PM (because of limited bandwith I don't want to make it public). I am specifically asking you since you're the only ones who responded here and because I feel that you both have enough knowledge and experience to make it balanced.

Cheers, Duke John

CBR
03-10-2004, 16:24
Yeah sure just send the url. Maybe we can run some battles later today. What florin level are you aiming at?


CBR

Duke John
03-10-2004, 16:26
I am thinking of 10k for valour 0.

I don't have time today to play games, so have fun http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

URL coming via PM,
Duke John

Edit: it's 10MB btw, so it may take a while.

Puzz3D
03-10-2004, 18:30
I can try it with CBR tonight. I'll be online after 21:00 gmt.

andy119
03-10-2004, 18:49
Looks great i want an english civil war mod aswell thatd be gr8:)

Duke John
03-10-2004, 19:52
I'll have time tomorrow to be online. Hopefully we will get to play some games, I'll be in the foyer around 19:00 GMT, probably sooner.

Puzz3D
Check your messagebox, I've sent you the url.

Cheers, Duke John

Edit: Oh, and what are your online names?

Puzz3D
03-10-2004, 20:34
Look for MizuCBR and MizuYuuki.

CBR
03-11-2004, 13:07
Just a few comments on the units:

You mentioned changing turning ability but nothing has been changed so far..or maybe you just wanted to wait with that?

60/100 men longbows: Even though the 60 men longbows have armour and better melee I would still consider them to be too small. You get more firepower out of the 100 men units and firepower is the main thing for such a unittype...especially with longrange longbows that will reduce skirmishing in the game. The 60 men unit will find itself at a disadvantage IMO

Pikemen/Billmen: Now I know you talked about different turning ability. But what is the exact role of pikemen? If they are supposed to be worse at turning they have to have some kind of advantage somewhere else. From the tests I have seen so far they will eventually lose against billmen. All they have right now is the advantage of negating a cavalry charge but cavalry will not play that big a role in this mod. If what they can now is what you intend then they definitely need to be cheaper than Billmen.


CBR

Duke John
03-11-2004, 15:39
I had some games with CBR, and we concluded this:

Morale
There was no need to upgrade units for the sake of morale. I believe that both of us didn't upgrade any units and they all performed as you would expected. If people would play with valour 1 then the game would drag for very long.

Handguns
Not worth buying, the longbows outperform them. I put them in mostly for historical battles, but we may try to make more viable by dropping the cost.

Billmen
Changed to 80 men to make them more different from the pikes. Change turning rate.

Pikes
Improve defense, at the moment they will lose versus bills, which should be more of a draw. Their only advantage is versus cav and they don't play a big role in this mod. A bit better at holding the line. Change turning rate.

Halberdiers
At the moment not very good, but when the bills and pikes have a slower turning rate the halberdiers will be better at adapting to new situations. No changes.

Squires/Knights
They are not the close combat monsters that you expect them to be. +1 att and def.

Mounted MAA
Charge of 8 to give them more punch on the charge.

Prickers
One of the most interesting units in my opinion. You'll will need them to pursue routed units. But they also excell at mowing down longbows. To balance this unit it performs terribly versus infantry and this combination works good enough at the moment.

Longbows
Nothing wrong with this unit.

Armoured longbows
60 men are too few to be a good choice versus the regular longbows. They will get 80 men.

It's coming along nicely.

Cheers, Duke John

Duke John
03-11-2004, 19:55
CBR and Puzz3D
Download these edited stats (http://chronicles.metw.net/wotr/stats.zip) to avoid version conflicts in MP. Changing the MAX TURNSPEED didn't seem to change much, but we shall see ingame.

Hmmm, perhaps this thread should be moved to the Dungeon...

Cheers, Duke John

Rob The Bastard
03-12-2004, 23:04
Hey no problem :)

Rob The Bastard
03-12-2004, 23:10
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-glasses2.gif

Aymar de Bois Mauri
03-13-2004, 01:11
Hi, Duke John

Relating to your WotR MOD you can bet that I will play it, specially since it performs as an add-on and you are working on an SP campaign.

You are correct in saying that new unit graphics attract attention to MODs, although lots of times a rebalancing of the game or a more historically accurate tweak is enough for me. BTW, your graphics are EXCELENT

Another plus that you mentioned, is that it is atractive having a different period to play. And that is really appealing for me.

Looking forward to seeing the final version. Good luck

Lord Zimoa of Flanders
03-13-2004, 22:58
Hope we can enjoy the beauty of your units once again soon.Looking forward to this one and i like the idea of an add-on. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

CZoF http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-curtain.gif

Lord Of Storms
03-15-2004, 02:28
Moved to the new Mod development forum area currently called Edit3, you may follow this topic there. thank you LOS