crusader units

[lancelot]

hello all,
I just posted this at .com but I thought I would post it here also to hopefully benefit from the fountain of modder knowledge that resides here.


my crusades never spawn anything but fanatics.

I looked in unit prod file and found in the rebelling troop coloumn that fanatics are CRUSADE(20) while order foot soldiers and knights templar are all CRUSADE(-15).

I changed the knights to (30) and still got the same amount of fanatics and no knights, so I changed it to (100) and still nothing.

can anyone remedy this?

any advice would be much appreciated.



http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-help.gif

[katank]

for units that join at the start, I think you may need negative numbers.

Also, the crusades are moola capped so maybe making knights cheaper would make them selected more.

try -30 and making knights 300 fl. or supthin

as long as you don't exploit this in custom battles etc. it'll be OK. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

[lancelot]

thanks for the reply, I took your advice but...things just keep gettin more weird.

I did some testing. I gave the english a crusade at the start of a new campaign.

Things that dont make sense.

1) after changing numbers to negative figures as suggested I got no knights but I did get more fanatics even though I didnt alter their stats??? WTF???

2) I couldnt launch the crusade at antioch, tripoli or jerusalem ie-any of the outremer provinces??

3) neither could I launch the crusade at rebel wales??

All of this on the first turn?


Can any tell me what the hell is goin on?

[Norseman]

Quote[/b] ]
1) after changing numbers to negative figures as suggested I got no knights but I did get more fanatics even though I didnt alter their stats??? WTF???


The following was posted by someone from CA a while ago. It explains how units are selected for Crusades:

A shortlist of 10 is generated from the whole list, all the entries with -ve value are will appear in the short list as laest once, if there are spaces left then all other entries are taken into account. The higher the value the more chance of it being selected. If you think of it as an army list from table top board games, the -ve value marks a troop type as core troop that you must have one of.
******************************************
All the units that fits the requriment of a certain rebellion are collected together first. The first non-artillery will automatically go into the shortlist. Any unit with -ve value will also go into the short list exactly once. There is space for 10 units in the shortlist. Now if there are space left, all valid units including -ve value are choosen randomly based on their absolute value. Aften 10 finalist are choosen, an army is choosen from that list.

In your example, foot soldier will take the first slot, one of the knights will take second slot (if you just so happens to start a crusade in Genoa then sailors will take first slot but we ignore sailors 15 for now.) The remaining 8 slots are taken from fanatics 20, foot soldiers 15, knights 10. Now the sum of the weight is 45, so there is 20/45 chance of fanatics taking up a slot. You final 10 may look like:

Foot
Knights
Fanatics
Knights
Fantics
Foot
Foot
Fanatics
Fanatics
Foot

Now you army is picked randomly (each have equal chance of being selected) form this list. Your army will be given a number of koku depending on the kind of rebellion. In the case of a crusade rebellion it is worked out from the piety of you king, the faith and zeal of the region. So even when Knights and Foot soidler are in you list, it may not get selected since most crusade start you off with just a couple of crusade units and a bunch of random peasants revolt type units.

This two tier system is used to minimize the variance of a generated army, so you will never get more than 10 different unit types in a generated army.





Quote[/b] ]
2) I couldnt launch the crusade at antioch, tripoli or jerusalem ie-any of the outremer provinces??

3) neither could I launch the crusade at rebel wales??


Not sure about 2), but 3) is most likely because those rebels were Catholic. Even Rebels need to be Muslim/Pagan/Orthodox to send a crusade against them.

[katank]

The inability to launch crusades at the provinces at the very beginning is due to the fact that the papal event has yet to occur.

this is in 1095 IIRC which states roughly Deus Volt da Popester Urban II yadeyadah.

then, you can launch crusades.

this restriction is normally not noticeable as you can't tech up to crusade that fast for anyone, not even the spanish.

the spanish start with a church and so can build a chapterhouse and a crusade marker which takes 8 years total and would end up in 1095 so this isn't really a restriction unless you give facitons markers (which you did).

the piety of your king is also very important.

rebels have to be less than 51% catholic to be crusaded against.

did you lower cost of knights? the change to -30 for example would only increase chance of it being in the ten units list but the moola limit means that not many knights would be there if there isn't enough money to pay for them.

[lancelot]

thanks for all the advice

I'll give this a try and see what happens.

I think I read somewhere that wes who created wesmod managed to change crusades so you get loads of knights etc, so Im pretty sure it can be done.

here's hoping....

[Norseman]

Quote[/b] ]
I think I read somewhere that wes who created wesmod managed to change crusades so you get loads of knights etc, so Im pretty sure it can be done.


Lancelot, the key to having loads of knights is, in addition to looking at CRUSADE(-15) settings, to reduce their price.

This is because when you start a crusade you will get units
for a given amount of florins, and this sum is worked out as a function of your King's piety and the starting regions zeal. As Knights are often a lot more expensive than Fanatics, you mostly get the latter.

What Wes did in MedMod was to make a complete set of cheap unit types purely for crusades, that is spearmen, Xbows, archers, knights etc.

I can't remember what price he put on them, but in my own game I have set it to about 25 florins for each unit. This gives me crusades of about 3000-5000 men http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[katank]

exactly, that's what I suggested too in making knights cheaper.

Alternately, you can make the money limit greater. The reason that so many units are generated for Wes is because he made crusades cost 4000 florins instead of standard 1000 florins. He also made them 10 years to build but I don't think this affects it.

so changing the crusade price rather than unit prices would be less unbalancing.

[Mablung]

Wes's crusades are great because of the quality of the troops. Unfortunately the build time, being 10 years, leaves one open to attack. In these instances it is imperative to build more troops to counter, unless you have a handy army sitting around. Then if you want to build more troops you either have to wait until the crusade is built or end all that hard work Is there no middle ground?? Of course you can alter crusades easily enough. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif

[lancelot]

GRRR.... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

Thank you to everyone that has offered advice but im at my wits end.

I have made crusades dearer, the knight units VERY cheap, the fanatics VERY expensive...no matter what I do I still only get fanatics in varying quantities.


The only difference between the units that I can think of is that the knights and order foot soldiers I have modded to be available in the outremer provinces once you have taken them.

But I cant see how this would be a problem...or is it?

[Nowake]

2) I couldnt launch the crusade at antioch, tripoli or jerusalem ie-any of the outremer provinces??

Those are on high french, so ..