PDA

View Full Version : Silmarillion:Total War



Pages : [1] 2

avarin
01-13-2004, 07:00
Upon the good advice of Gregoshi, I hereby declare the creation of this Silmarillion:Total War topic.

Now, where to begin?
Avarin.

avarin
01-13-2004, 07:04
Wow, 1/13/2004,00:00, that sure was auspiscious http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-sunny.gif

So begins the great Mod.

Avarin.

Pindar
01-13-2004, 07:33
I have always thought the First Age was by far the best setting for any type of Tolkein game. It out shines all others in scope, grandeur, and possibility to confront the true Dark Lord and his vast hosts.

caspian
01-13-2004, 09:55
It could have some of the most wicked factions ever.
The Eldar (Elves):
Noldor(aggressive and noble)
 divided between the houses of Feanor, Fingolfin and  Finarfin
Teleri (defensive but powerful when roused)
Dark Elves (secretive and friends with the dwarves)
Vanyar (most powerful and are Valar-like)
 I forgot the names of the ship-builders

The Edain (Men):
 House of Bëor
 House of Hador
 House of Haleth
Easterlings


  also the Numernorians could come later and be like the Mongols, advance weapons, superior units but would be 'cursed/weakened' when their island vanishes

Dwarves
 Durin’s Folk
 Dwarves of Belegost  
 Dwarves of Nogrod

Race of Morgoth
 Fortress of Angband
 Stronghold of Utumno
  could gain 'elvish' units when they capture a province since Morgoth usually enslaved elves rather than execute them

Also the Valar could come and wreak havoc on the Map and after a turn all the factions and their provinces would be messed up and a new set of enemies would appear.

Sun Tzui
01-13-2004, 17:44
Yeay http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Great mod in the works http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

When do you think we can our hands on it? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-beam.gif

Duerfian
01-13-2004, 19:39
With the success of the movies, I suspect LOTR is considered much more sexy to do. But I agree Silmarillion is suited for large scale warfare.

Ludens
01-13-2004, 20:19
Quote[/b] (Duerfian @ Jan. 13 2004,19:39)]With the success of the movies, I suspect LOTR is considered much more sexy to do. But I agree Silmarillion is suited for large scale warfare.
They are already working on a LOTR mod. You can see some screenshots in the Mead Hall (Story / PBM forum).
Playable factions so far include the Rohirrim and Isengard.

Suppiluliumas
01-13-2004, 21:39
Quote[/b] (caspian @ Jan. 13 2004,03:55)]It could have some of the most wicked factions ever.
The Eldar (Elves):
Noldor(aggressive and noble)
 divided between the houses of Feanor, Fingolfin and  Finarfin
Teleri (defensive but powerful when roused)
Dark Elves (secretive and friends with the dwarves)
Vanyar (most powerful and are Valar-like)
 I forgot the names of the ship-builders

The Edain (Men):
 House of Bëor
 House of Hador
 House of Haleth
 Easterlings


  also the Numernorians could come later and be like the Mongols, advance weapons, superior units but would be 'cursed/weakened' when their island vanishes

Dwarves
 Durin’s Folk
 Dwarves of Belegost  
 Dwarves of Nogrod

Race of Morgoth
 Fortress of Angband
 Stronghold of Utumno
  could gain 'elvish' units when they capture a province since Morgoth usually enslaved elves rather than execute them

Also the Valar could come and wreak havoc on the Map and after a turn all the factions and their provinces would be messed up and a new set of enemies would appear.
I think those factions could be whittled down a little bit. The Teleri are the ship builders, but they could be left out because they never returned to Middle Earth. The Vanyar also, needn't be a faction since they only returned to Middle Earth along with the Valar. As for the Dark Elves, they could be mercs available to the Sinda faction, because they never were a defined kingdom after Denethor was killed.

The three houses of men would be fine also, but I would make the Easterlings part of the Morgoth faction, or mercs. The Numenoreans would be out of place since they appeared later and were actually an amalgamation of the three houses of men.

Nogrod and Belegost would be fine too, but the house of Durin weren't in the picture at the time.

Also, Morgoth's faction should probably be unified, rather than split.


It really would be difficult to solve the game balance issues and still preserve consitency with the Silmarillion.

Dillinger
01-14-2004, 01:50
Game balance is going to be a huge problem, as the only reason Morgoth was defeated was because of an alliance, and, see as how alliances count for next to nothing in M:TW, it would be insanely hard to beat him. You would have to seriously diminish his power in order to make it playable.

caspian
01-14-2004, 03:59
Quote[/b] (Dillinger @ Jan. 13 2004,18:50)]the only reason Morgoth was defeated was because of an alliance

Actually Morgoth was always defeated by the Valar. The Noldor defeated his armies but they didnt take Angband(?), they just surrounded it.

An idea would be to have Ulmo be like the pope (but of lesser influence and only to Elves), since he's the only Valar that took time with the affairs of Middle-Earth.

But how to involve Gothmog and his Balrogs (kinda like a giant Kensai unit) or Glaurung and his Dragons (they fly right? and dwarves should have a higher defense for them).

Will this mod wait for Rome:TotalWar's new engine?

Nelson
01-14-2004, 04:38
Glaurung did not have wings. Ancalagon was the first winged dragon.

Monk
01-14-2004, 04:55
Quote[/b] (caspian @ Jan. 13 2004,21:59)]But how to involve Gothmog and his Balrogs (kinda like a giant Kensai unit) or Glaurung and his Dragons (they fly right? and dwarves should have a higher defense for them).

Will this mod wait for Rome:TotalWar's new engine?
I had thought of starting a Silmarillion TW mod project for some time, but due to a number of problems i decided against it. Some being what you have said here.

Another big reason for me deciding against a first age of LOTR mod was the simple fact that i didn't think MTW's buildings (farms and churches) would fit into the the period. For example, Gondolin (the hidden city) was told to be completly white with high white walls and such, and little wood shacks just didn't look right imo.


Quote[/b] ]Stronghold of Utumno

if memory serves, Utummno was destroyed after the first war with Morgoth. By the Time the Noldor had returned to Middle-earth the dark lord only had Angband in The Iron Mountains.


Quote[/b] ]also the Numernorians could come later and be like the Mongols, advance weapons, superior units but would be 'cursed/weakened' when their island vanishes

IIRC they did not lose their Island until the second age, and that was for the fact that they had been corrupted by Sauron and ticked into making war upon Valinor. Elendil and Isildur fled to ME and founded Arnor and Gondor for that reason. It depends on when this mod is set, First age or Second, if that feature should be included.


Quote[/b] ]An idea would be to have Ulmo be like the pope (but of lesser influence and only to Elves), since he's the only Valar that took time with the affairs of Middle-Earth

That might work, maybe give him a single province (say the Island of Balar). That may keep the Elves in line for a while and allow them to ally against Morgoth.


Quote[/b] ]The Noldor defeated his armies but they didnt take Angband(?), they just surrounded it.


The Noldor elves could never defeat him alone, and the Valar knew this from the begenning. As Angband was to fortified to actually enter, they laied seige to it but thatfailed as many times the siege was attacked and eventually broken.


Quote[/b] ]Dwarves
Durin’s Folk
Dwarves of Belegost  
Dwarves of Nogrod


Durin's folk can not be included, For Durin the Deathless built his halls in Kazad-dum, far from Beleriand. True the Dwarves spoke of it often and how it's wealth was great, but it was only a name to the elves for they never ventured there in this age.


Quote[/b] ]Noldor(aggressive and noble)
divided between the houses of Feanor, Fingolfin and  Finarfin

Two factions would be insanly hard to implement, one being the Elves of Narogthrond, and the other is the Elves of Gondolin.

Narogthrond laid long hidden from Morgoth, but they conducted a secret war against him, using hit and run tactics and ambushes to decimate any army sent down into Talath Dirnen. It was not until they built a brige across the river Narog and made open war upon Morgoth did he actually find the city, and after their defeat at the battle of Tumhalad (sp?) the city was sacked.

Gondolin was another special case, it was in the encircling mountains and its skies were guarded by the King of the Eagles who lived nearby. It is said there were seven gates that guarded the only pass into Gondolin, and passed them was a narrow valley. However eventually Morgoth sacked and destroyed Gondolin, this is where Glorfindel fought the Balrog.

Hope this information has helped, good idea though  http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thumbsup.gif . If this mod is made it will be the best imho.

caspian
01-14-2004, 05:12
How about using 'Crusades' against Morgoth. Its like a big allied army right?

In my opinion, the trick here is to get something started, any further details to make the Mod Beleriand-accurate would have to follow. Once some initial progress is evident, the Mod would take shape faster from then on. Is Avarin going to develop this? Im mod-illiterate but I can learn, moslty Im an artist/graphics so I can help in that area.

Maedhros
01-14-2004, 06:11
Alliances would be much easier to make, and the elves would only break them with each other to fight over the Silmarils.

The elves could beat Morgoth and often did. Years after all the fire and death the elves drove the orcs back, and held Morgoth in a virtual siege again.

I think the factions would compose:

Fingolfins house
including his sons and nephews


7 sons of Feanor led by Maedhros


and the Sindar under Thingel
I think Cirdan and the kingless elves of Ossiriand, and some of those in Nevrast (before the founding of Gondolin) were part of his overall kingdom.

The humans shouldn't be a faction because they were made to answer to the Elves. Their arrival should make new units available to the elven factions hosting them.

Ulmo was not supposed to interfere directly in the affairs of the elves. Maybe make his presence known through random events. The creation of heroes, or events like sudden floods stopping the enemy from fording rivers or fog allowing routing troops to escape the enemy.

I think the heroes and main characters could be represented as Kensai like troops with various skills and attributes. The balrog and various dragon types might be represented as single unit troop types.

avarin
01-15-2004, 06:01
Yes, the accursed silmarils, but Feanor was the bloody one.

Part of me can't bear the thought of pitting two eldalie factions against eachother, I think what I will try to do is to have region-specific troop types for special elvish units. but only one faction of Elves. The Valar will exist as an independent faction in Valinor, with godly king names, and quenya elvish general names and high elf units. Since Thingol prohibited the use of quenya, most of the names for the single elf-faction will be sindarin, however individual quenya names of import will be included in the list.

Other factions: certainly Angband, Naugrim, Edain, Swarthy Men(easterlings?), There is some space then for two more factions, ether they will die in the first year or be rendered irrelevant or whatever best suggestion is, The men, dwarves, and elves will be considered free peoples, and subjected to the guidance of Valinor, yes crusades will be modded into campaigns for the silmarils. And Morgoth will get to use his jihad-trick, it won't be called a jihad of course.

Sketches,

Human factions weak at the start and east of ered luin.

Eldalie will start with some advanced troops.

Morgoth, will have plentiful and cheap slaves, but also stout and powerful units. Very low maintenance costs on the legions of Orcs, Goblins, Wargs and Trolls, will try to create individual balrog generals, need help on this one.

This will be a mod suited to Viking Invasion.

Religious Conversions
Islam----> Swarthy men and Angband.
Catholic->Elf and Valar,Dwarves and Human

Some of you know better than me, please help, I am happy to be corrected at any time http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thumbsup.gif

I will try to make new skins for the walls and buildings, more appropriate to the time and place of this mod.

There is a foretaste available in the downloads section of this website, The ORG has been gracious enough to allow me to post Two new unit files, Orc10, and Goblin10, there are install instructions in the files, The orcs will be used as medium infantry in the mod, the goblins are being reworked now. Orc10 is still in the recently uploaded files but is the better of the two.

I am accepting all recruits to the project, if anyone wants tasks, we have a plenty.

Namarie,
Avarin.

caspian
01-15-2004, 07:39
Quote[/b] ]Part of me can't bear the thought of pitting two eldalie factions against each other

But isn't Fëanor's Oath  one of the tragedies of The Silmarillon? When the Noldor made war against other Elves at Alqualondë, Doriath and Mouths of Sirion? Also when they defied Eönwë and the Valar. Hope you include two or more factions of the Eldar so we can see Elves against Elves. I agree with Maedhros' division of the Eldar.
Sons of Feanor, House of Fingolfin, Sindar (Elu Thingol) and maybe the Dark Elves as mercs or Rebel factions.


Quote[/b] ]Other factions:  certainly Angband, Naugrim, Edain, Swarthy Men(easterlings?),  There is some space then for two more factions,

How about having another faction led by Sauron? Didnt he had a small 'kingdom' when he took Minas Tirith / Tol Sirion , with werewolves as his primary force?

Monk
01-15-2004, 17:09
The elves should be devided as such:

---Noldor (includes Fingolfin, Finrafin, And Finrond's house)

Fingolfin: Hithrim, Mithrim

Fingon: Dol-Lomin

Turgon: Gondolin

Finrond: Narogthrond, along with most of western beleriand

Orodreth: Tol Sirion (Minas Tirith)

Cirdan: Coastal provinces beyond Finrond's realm

Angrond, Aegnor: Dorthonion

---Sons of Fëanor

Celegorm, Curufin: Himland

Meadhros: The Himring

Amrod, Amras: Estolad

Caranthir: Thargelion

Maglor: Maglor's gap

---Sindar Elves

Thingel: Doriath (surrouned by the girdle of Mellan)

---Green elves

Ossiriand

---Naugrim

Dwarves of Nogrod

Dwarves of Belegost

---The Dark Lord

Morgoth: Angband


Quote[/b] ]How about having another faction led by Sauron? Didnt he had a small 'kingdom' when he took Minas Tirith / Tol Sirion , with werewolves as his primary force?

IIRC that did not happen untill after the siege of Angband was broken late in the first age, i could be wrong.

Ellesthyan
01-15-2004, 19:45
Citaat[/b] ]Part of me can't bear the thought of pitting two eldalie factions against eachother, I think what I will try to do is to have region-specific troop types for special elvish units. but only one faction of Elves.

>> http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-surprised.gif Are you really sure you want that? The sons of Feanor DID actually attack the other elves, you know. And Doriath and Ossiriand really have to be seperate, if only rebel factions. Falar really deserves his own faction, because it will probably represent the only sea-faring faction in the game.


Citaat[/b] ]The Valar will exist as an independent faction in Valinor, with godly king names, and quenya elvish general names and high elf units.  

>> Valar? Are you gonna use them as the pope? I thought you were talking about Ulmo... Anyway, the Valar really shouldnt be able to interfere in the affairs of Middle Earth, if only as an event.


Citaat[/b] ]Since Thingol prohibited the use of quenya, most of the names for the single elf-faction will be sindarin, however individual quenya names of import will be included in the list.

>> Falar, Doriath and Ossiriand should have sindarin names. The Noldor quenyan names.


Citaat[/b] ]Other factions:  certainly Angband, Naugrim, Edain, Swarthy Men(easterlings?),  There is some space then for two more factions, ether they will die in the first year or be rendered irrelevant or whatever best suggestion is,  The men, dwarves, and elves will be considered free peoples, and subjected to the guidance of Valinor, yes crusades will be modded into campaigns for the silmarils.  And Morgoth will get to use his jihad-trick, it won't be called a jihad of course.

>> Interesting, although I'd like to say that only the noldorian elves should be able to crusade. The dwarves, humans and sindarins did help, sure, but they did not organise one.

>> If I were you, I would take different starting times: Before humans, after humans, after the disastrious battle of the sudden fire, and the Second Era.


Citaat[/b] ]Human factions weak at the start and east of ered luin.

>> Make the Haldarin rebels, and give the houses of Beorn and Galdor their own factions.


Citaat[/b] ]Eldalie will start with some advanced troops.

>> keeps in the Falar, a Castle as Nargothrond, Menegroth, the Dwarf cities, a Keep as the tower of the Syrion, Himling, the city of Thargelion, a Fortress for Angband, a Citadel for Gondolin, and a Fort for every other significant place.


Citaat[/b] ]Morgoth, will have plentiful and cheap slaves, but also stout and powerful units.  Very low maintenance costs on the legions of Orcs, Goblins, Wargs and Trolls, will try to create individual balrog generals, need help on this one.

>> Ok... Balrogs would be very cool indeed All units in the army (except balrogs and higher spirits) should have very low morale.


Citaat[/b] ]Religious Conversions
Islam----> Swarthy men and Angband.
Catholic->Elf and Valar,Dwarves and Human

>> I suggest to let the religions tell of wich race the inhabitans are:
Orthodox = elves
Catholic = good humans
Islam = Morgoth stuff (Orcs, evil humans, etc.)
Pagan = bad humans (Easterlings)

>> The elves may revolt when under a human lord, and vice versa. It sounds right to me


Citaat[/b] ]There is a foretaste available in the downloads section of this website, The ORG has been gracious enough to allow me to post Two new unit files, Orc10, and Goblin10, there are install instructions in the files, The orcs will be used as medium infantry in the mod, the goblins are being reworked now.  Orc10 is still in the recently uploaded files but is the better of the two.

>> Are they with Orc&Goblin graphics? You might want to ask the Lordz if they could help you, and maybe even share some graphs with you...

>>   http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-thumbsup.gif Good luck I hope you'll get a lot of people to help you, as it's quite an ambitious plan. ;)

--  http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-gossip.gif Ellesthyan

avarin
01-17-2004, 09:03
Yes,they are original graphics. It is not final currently, and so if you disagree with the direction the mod is taking make your input known.  But remember firstly, that modders spend 100's of hours trying to make a new creation without pay.

To sucessfully duplicate every sociopolitical dynamic in the Silmarillion is impossible.

We are trying to duplicate the world in the first age of middle earth.  But we are also interested in making a new creation, unit graphics for example, aren't borrowed from LOTR movies, Howe, Weta, or Games Workshop.  Lastly, I thank all of your constructive inputs, you can believe the good advice will be heeded, if not put to use in the mod.

Namarie,
Avarin.

{P.S. 1/22/2004 Edited my original post because I'm getting lots of good help and great people to work with. and I sounded like an ass.)

Gregoshi
01-17-2004, 09:24
avarin, is there a similar topic in the Dungeon - Alchemist lab forum? If not, I think at this time it would be a good idea to move this topic there. There is no need to copy it yourself as I can move this whole topic to that forum.

avarin
01-17-2004, 09:31
I'm sorry I may have contradicted myself, I will take a certain amount of advice to heart, but it will be impossible to please everyone all of the time. Once a substantial amount of modding has been done, I'm sure some of you will be able to fine-tune the mod to suit your own tastes.

I may not be the best to answer campaign-game mechanics type of questions, can't tell you who is though, sorry maybe you? If you have some skill in modding and making campaign-map graphics, or campaign-game text files? I can look up the divisions of the elves in the first age too, I have the atlas of middle earth etc, so if Cirdan's (Lirdan's? sic.) elves don't make it in as a separate kingdom you will have to forgive me, even creating one new faction is an arduous task but it can be done, so forgive me for not wanting 30.

Right now my concern is new and unique unit graphics. because each new unit takes me about a week to make, they will be carefully planned to contribute to game balance as well as accuracy.

avarin
01-17-2004, 09:34
Yes please Gregoshi.

Thank you
Avarin

Gregoshi
01-18-2004, 01:21
Moving this to the Land of Mods, i.e., the Alchemist lab forum. I'll be keeping my eye on this one... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Aymar de Bois Mauri
01-18-2004, 01:49
Quote[/b] ]Orodreth: Tol Sirion (Minas Tirith)
Minas Tirith (1st Age) yes, but different from Minas Tirith (3th Age), aka Minas Anor.

Is that what you're saying, Monk? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink2.gif

Monk
01-18-2004, 03:15
Quote[/b] (Aymar de Bois Mauri @ Jan. 17 2004,19:49)]
Quote[/b] ]Orodreth: Tol Sirion (Minas Tirith)
Minas Tirith (1st Age) yes, but different from Minas Tirith (3th Age), aka Minas Anor.

Is that what you're saying, Monk? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wink2.gif
Indeed Aymar

The Tower of Minas Tirith built in the first age to guard the pass between the Encircling mountains and the Ered Wethrin, also along the banks of the river Sirion. If memory serves Orodreth held the pass with a sizable force. Of course after the siege of Angband was broken, Morgoth was quick to order his finest Luitenant, Sauron, to take the tower with the use of werewolves. The tower fell and became an outpost of the Dark Lord, and iirc it wasn't retaken by the Noldor.

Some Tolkien researchers argue that the City of Minas Tirith in Gondor was named after the tower built by the elves thousands of years before. But when it coems down to it, it is only simple speculation.

As for Orodreth, he ruled in Narogthrond after Finrond was lost in the dungeons of Tol-in-Gaurhoth. But when Túrin Turambar was brought there, he convinced the elven lord to build a Bridge over the river and make open war upon Morgoth. With the building of the Bridge Morgoth found the city that had laid hidden from him and he sent an army out under Glaurung with the hope of sacking the city in one fell swoop.

Orodreth responded by leading an army north from Narogthrond, with him Túrin travelled as well and met the forces of the Dark lord at Tumhalad. It was the last desprete defense of the city, and it failed, for Orodreth was slain and the Army from Angband broke through the Noldor lines and routed the survivors. Túrin escaped alive only to bear witness to the sack of the city Narogthrond.


If you ever need information on the first age
avarin, i would be happy to give it. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

avarin
01-18-2004, 11:50
Thank you Monk,
You do know your stuff I will need your help before the end for sure. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-yes.gif Sorry if I sounded rude before. The historical input is perfect for this thread.

Avarin

Ellesthyan
01-18-2004, 12:24
Ho ho, peace Avarin Im just giving you suggestions, how I would like to see the mod. Its your choice to implement any of them, and Im not saying your thoughts are bad, or impossible. I must say you should be answering a little less rude though I did not know you were already working on the unit graphics, so there is no reason to take offence... (even if I did know it is a silly reason)

Im not a  good modder (yet), mainly because Ive got this game only for 3 months... Im learning every day http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif  

About the factions: I will stress once again the importance of 2 separate elven factions: the sons of Feanor and the sons of Fingolfin and Finarfin. The others can be made a rebel kingdom (doriath, Ossiriand) or added to the 2 factions (the falar, the grey elves outside Doriath). Only one elven faction will take the balance out of the game, as they will rule over Beleriand, Falar, and Himlith; probably 3/4 of your map
There are several reasons to create these 2 factions besides balance:
1) The sons of Feanor always helped eachother, but the other Noldor would not listen unless it would benefit them greatly.
2) There was no big king of all the elves (only if you would add a land for Ingwe in Aman...), and the High king of the Noldor had only effective power in the lands of the houses of Fingolfin and Finarfin.
3) There were 3 battles were elves fought elves, and in every battle the sons of Feanor attacked

Once again, Im not saying that you are doing a bad job, nor am I saying that your solution is necessarily wrong. However, I have found many reasons why at least 2 elven factions should exist... If its impossible to create another faction (what I doubt) than thats a bummer; but if you do not have the skill or time to do it you could ask help from BKB, he has created a load of factions in the Medieval campaign, and probably knows what has to be added to create a new faction.

Good luck  http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

--  http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-gossip.gif Ellesthyan

Gothic_war_monkey
01-18-2004, 13:13
Avarin, id love to get involved with this mod, i sent you a pm on metw a while ago. If your talking about changing buildings anytime now the first beta of wellington's mttm is coming out. this should allow people with medium knowledge to create totally new models and also edit maps. I personally cant wait to add new buildings to my middle earth maps.

If there is anything you can think of to do on this map Id be happy to help(preferably boring low skill work that no one else wants to do) Just to take some of your workload, by the way GOOD WORK http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

GWM

Monk
01-18-2004, 16:54
Word of advice for the Mod team, You're going to need atleast eight major factions (playable). This was discussed over at the ME:TW forums for a Third age LOTR mod, i sugest you do the following. (this is IMHO of course)

1. Angband - Morgoth

2. Beleghost - Dwarves

3. Nogrod - Dwarves

4. Doriath - Sindar under Thingol

5. Sons Of Fëanor - Celegorm, Curufin, Maglor, Meadhros, Caranthir, Amrod, Amras. Together control most of East Beleriand.

6. House of Fingolfin - Turgon in Gondolin, Fingolfin controling Hithrim and Mithrim. And Fingon ruling in Dol-Lomin


7. Sons of Finarfin -  Finrod, Orodreth, Angrond, Aegnor. They control most of the west and north.

-I really wouldn't want to see the elves devided as such, but its an effective way of deviding the Noldor so that the game engine will work properly. If you could think of a different faction list, then go ahead.

8. The last faction could be by your choice, if you would like Human factions could be added, but imho since this mod is called "Silmarillion:TW" it should focus on the Elves more, and THe GReen Elves of Ossiriand should atleast control their homeland. Maybe the Humans could be included as a minor faction however.

Gothic_war_monkey
01-18-2004, 17:06
i think men should definately be included as a major faction as they did play a major part in the events in the silmarillion(particularly the "good" men) This would ad a bit more variety and make the mod more interesting. The Easterlings could just be incorporated into Morgoth's forces though as he basically spoiled them by starting gossip and rumour from their beginning http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-gossip.gif

GWM

Monk
01-18-2004, 17:13
Quote[/b] (Gothic_war_monkey @ Jan. 18 2004,11:06)]i think men should definately be included as a major faction as they did play a major part in the events in the silmarillion(particularly the "good" men) This would ad a bit more variety and make the mod more interesting. The Easterlings could just be incorporated into Morgoth's forces though as he basically spoiled them by starting gossip and rumour from their beginning  http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-gossip.gif

GWM
Comes down to the Green elves or Including Men, and i wouldn't mind either way to tell the truth. Either way this will be agreat mod, but i do see your point there War Monkey

Emp. Conralius
01-18-2004, 18:44
So, who's interested in being apart of the team?

Monk, you definatley know your stuff and would be a great help indeed.


I think Men of Edain should be included over the Green Elves. Since elves will be the majority of the factions, the Green Elves should hold their homelands as a minor faction.

Avarin is workin on units, while I'm doing some unit descrips. We need mapmakers ands a camp map. We also need everything else
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

So, if you are interested, just say the word

Right now, I'm writing unit descrips for Noldor and Angband

Monk
01-18-2004, 18:49
I'd like to be a part of the team, though i would be best suited as an advisor since i don't have any modding skills outside of basic stat editing. I had plans to do my own first age mod, but i eventually decided against it since, well, i just don't have the skills for it. However i did tons of research for it and because of that i pretty much know everything there is to know about the events of the first age.

Monk at your service http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Gothic_war_monkey
01-18-2004, 21:18
U mean single player maps? Id be happy to help there, I know strider is already doing some but Id fill in any gaps for you(with pleasure)

GWM

Strider74205
01-18-2004, 21:38
I'm definently on board as a mapper.  I have already created Gondolin and Thangorodrim.  Pics of my maps as well as many third age maps I have been doing are located here (http://desertfox.i8.com/photo.html).  I'll be doing a lot more in the coming weeks.

I also know a lot about the First Age events and whatnot so I can help Monk as a resource there.

I would like to know how to make Historical battles if that is at all possible.

And I found a great map site for LOTR in general which has some great Beleriand maps, including Tolkien's original and a cool one that shows all the Elf factions. r3t's LotR Maps (http://lotrmaps.cjb.net/)

Monk
01-18-2004, 22:22
I shall post info on factions every now and again, for now a bit of background info on the Noldor and the Return on Fëanor and his sons to Middle-Earth.  

The Noldor - Deep Elves

The division of the Elves that followed Finwë as their lord. In the long march from Cuiviénen to the western shores of Middle-earth, they were the second great host. When they reached Valinor, they learned much from Aulë the Smith, and were accounted the greatest of the Elves in matters of lore and craft.

Fëanor, the greatest Noldor

Fëanor was the eldest son of Finwë and half brother to Fingolfin and Finarfin, and was told to be the Greatest of the Noldor. In Valinor, before the trees had died, he captured their light in three jewels that he named the Silmarils. And Melkor (Morgoth) saw their power and with the Help of Ungoliath (sp) he killed the two trees and stole the Simarils. In doing so he also slew Fëanor's father Finwë.


Without thought Fëanor Cried aloud and renamed Melkor, Morgoth, and it is said that afterward that was what he was called and no elf would utter his true name. Fëanor then Swore his infamous Oath, and to him lept his seven sons and they to swore it, that by the Name of Illuvatar they would not rest until they had retaken the Jewels.

He was able to convince his brothers Fingolfin and Finarfin to follow, but when the Teleri would not allow them to use their ships to sail to Middle-Earth, Fëanor attacked in a battle that it become afterward known as the kinslaying. Reinforcements arrived late and threw themselves into the battle with no knowledge of what had happened. The Noldor stole the great white ships and sailed north, but Finarfin did not follow. He turned back and led his men back to Valinor, yet his sons continued on, as did Fingolfin. he afterward became King of the Noldor still in Valinor.

The Noldor passed out of Valinor where a messanger of the Vala fortold that they would be cursed and that if they passed they would not be allowed into Valinor again, yet he allowed them to pass out into Araman, The narrow coastlands of Aman, north of Valinor. It was there that Fëanor betrayed Fingolfin and passed over the sea without him, taking only his fallowers and his sons. "Let them Curse my name" he laughed when they landed and burned the white ships. However Fingolfin did manage to cross the ice and enter Middle Earth by a north passage, but it is said he lost many in doing so.

In his hatred Fëanor led his men north and confronted Morgoth in the Dagor-nuin-Giliath-

-After their return, Fëanor had led his people up the Firth of Drengist, and then eastward to Lake Mithrim, on whose shore they camped. Morgoth saw an opportunity to wipe out his enemies, and sent a vast army of Orcs to launch a surprise attack on the Noldor. Though the Orcs greatly outnumbered the Elves, and had the advantage of surprise, the Noldor quickly turned the tide and routed their enemy. Many Orcs fled back over the Mountains, where they joined with reinforcing armies, but still they were no match for the Elves. Celegorm and his hunters chased them across Ard-galen and into the Fen of Serech, where they were destroyed.

Though it was a mighty victory for the people of Fëanor, the battle saw the end of Fëanor himself. Filled with wrath, he charged on towards Angband, thinking to utterly defeat Morgoth and retrieve the Silmarils. So he left his armies behind, and with just a few soldiers left to him, he was set upon by Balrogs, though it is said he fought valiantly, he was fatally wounded. He died soon after, leaving his seven sons to fulfil the great Oath they had taken with their father.

Monk
01-18-2004, 22:37
Information on a few key Noldor and Places

Fingolfin

The second son of Finwë and half-brother to Fëanor. After Fëanor's death, his eldest son Maedhros should have become High King of the Noldor, but Maedhros repented his deeds at the Kinslaying and refused the title, which thus passed to Fingolfin.

He ruled the lands to the northwest of Beleriand with his sons Fingon and Turgon, and dwelt behind the mountain fences of Hithlum during the long Siege of Angband.

When Morgoth broke the Siege in the Dagor Bragollach, Fingolfin was prevented from sending immediate help to the other princes of the Noldor by the ferocity of the onslaught, but when heard of the extent of their defeat, he rode in anger to the doors of Angband and demanded single combat with Morgoth. There they fought a mighty battle, but though Fingolfin wounded the Dark Lord, he could not prevail, and was finally crushed by Morgoth. His body was saved, though, by Thorondor, who bore it to a peak in the Encircling Mountains. Turgon came there and built a cairn over his father's remains.


Finrond

The eldest son of Finarfin and brother to Galadriel, who founded Minas Tirith in the Pass of Sirion, and delved his citadel at Nargothrond on the River Narog. He went with Beren on the Quest of the Silmaril, and was lost in the pits of Sauron on Tol-in-Gaurhoth.

Nargothrond

The stronghold and realm of Finrod Felagund, founded by him on the model of the halls of Menegroth in Doriath.

The stronghold of Nargothrond was carved into the rock beneath Taur-en-Faroth, and could only be approached by a narrow path along the high banks of the River Narog. No bridge was built across the river until late in its history. The citadel long lay hidden from Morgoth, and was ruled wisely for long years by Finrod. After he was lost in the Quest of the Silmaril, his brother Orodreth expelled the usurping sons of Fëanor, Celegorm and Curufin, and was lord in Nargothrond.

The lands to the north of the citadel were considered part of its realm, and the people of Nargothrond kept unceasing watch on the grasslands to the north, the Talath Dirnen or Guarded Plain.

When Túrin dwelt in Nargothrond, he persuaded the Elves who dwelt there to change their long policy of secrecy, and openly attack the servants of Morgoth. So the Dark Lord discovered the city's location, and sent out an army under Glaurung to sack and destroy it. An army was led forth from the city by Orodreth and went north to meet the forces of the Darklord. It would be the last battle fought by many Elves for the Noldor were defeated by an army of Orcs and Balrogs, soon after the city fell.


Gondolin

The great Hidden City of Turgon was concealed from friend and foe alike during the First Age by the Encircling Mountains, and guarded from trespassers by the Eagles of Thorondor.

In the fiftieth year of the First Age, Turgon journeyed from his halls in Nevrast with his cousin Finrod. Ulmo guided him to the hidden valley of Tumladen, and there he founded Gondolin. The city was completed in c. I 126, and Turgon's people who had dwelt in Nevrast travelled there secretly. Gondolin stayed for the most part hidden, and Armies only issued forth once to aid the other Princes of the Noldor in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad

The city was inviolate for almost four hundred years; Turgon did not break his secret leaguer until the time of the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, and even after that disastrous battle he was able to return in secret to the city with the aid of Húrin Thalion.

Morgoth's servants finally discovered Gondolin through the treachery of Maeglin, and it was sacked in I 510. Turgon was lost in the Fall of the city, but some few (including Tuor and Idril, with their child Eärendil) escaped the destruction and dwelt as Exiles at the Mouths of Sirion.

avarin
01-19-2004, 00:31
Good to see you all here now Yes I think I would agree to the most sensible set of factions, like I've said some of you know better than me. But I wouldn't Put more than three separate elf factions.

Let me know if this is a good breakdown.

1) Eastern Noldor, Feanor's sons high elves

2) Western Noldor, Finarfin and Fingolfin, combining two of yours, Monk.

3) Sindarin, Under Thingol.

4) Naugrim, Beleghost and Nogrod.

5) Eastern Men.

6) Edain.

7) Valinor, a papal-like faction, doesn't participate in the affairs of beleriand but it allows for certain game mechanics. Open to discussion, I know some don't agree with this one, I remember Earendil had to cross the ocean to get any action out of these guys.

8) Angband.

Now we have the majic eight.
Avarin

Monk
01-19-2004, 00:41
Quote[/b] (avarin @ Jan. 18 2004,18:31)]7) Valinor, a papal-like faction, doesn't participate in the affairs of beleriand but it allows for certain game mechanics.  Open to discussion, I know some don't agree with this one, I remember Earendil had to cross the ocean to get any action out of these guys.
I'm a little worried here, though it's a good idea, I'm worried we will see hordes of Vanyar (Light elves, golden hair ect.) over running Western beleriand. IIRC Eärendil the Mariner was only able to find his way back to Aman with the help of one of the Simarils. The Valar should have ships (so they can enter into M-E) but let's try to keep them from becoming to powerful. Afterall we dont want to see them killing Noldor  http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Eärendil did sail across the Great sea, and in doing so he conviced the Vala to make war upon Morgoth in the War of Wrath, however Beleriand was all but destroyed in the coming onslaught. So it is my suggestion, that all other factions be denied ship building, save Morgoth and the Valar themselves. We dont want to see the Noldor making war upon Valinor, but Morgoth sailing across the sea to battle is a lot more logical.

If we can, i'd like to have the Valar as passive as can be, with Morgoth agressive almost to the point of being suicidal  http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif .

avarin
01-19-2004, 01:17
Yes my good man, good advice. How about Cirdan and the Havens(?) being a "papist" state too (probably a bad idea, don't know about this one)? We can make them (Valinor) really weak economically so that they spend it all to maintain a few really good units, like when youve got the pope trapped in METW. Good advice for Morgoth.

It would be good to have two valar provinces because the valar could respond with their prohibition of the attacking faction. and could retreat across the sea, and fight the intermittent sea battle to stop Morgoth's forces from taking valinor, I agree with your maritime model 100%.

Thank you,
Avarin

Monk
01-19-2004, 01:22
Map of beleriand (http://lotrmaps.middle-earth.us/maps/r3t_M134.jpg)

This is a well done map that shows where each faction was and what lands they controled (of course the Vala had Valinor)

Sindar - Grey Elves

An Elvish people of Telerin origin. Coming to the western shores of Middle-earth with the others of their kin, they did not pass across the sea, but remained in Beleriand. Some had tarried there searching for their lord, Elwë, while others were persuaded to remain by Ossë the Maia.

Before the return of the Noldor to Middle-earth, the Sindar were found in most parts of Beleriand; all claimed Elwë (known as Thingol in the Sindarin tongue) as their high king. There were two main countries of the Sindar, however; in Doriath under the rule of Thingol and Melian, and in the Falas, under the lordship of Círdan the Shipwright.

Thingol

In his early life, millennia before the beginning of the First Age, Thingol journeyed to Valinor with Ingwë and Finwë, and was returned to the Eldar who dwelt at Cuiviënen. From the travellers' reports of the Blessed Realm, many of the Elves marched westward across Middle-earth, seeking the land of the Valar, and the third and greatest host of the Elves, the Teleri, were led by Thingol and his brother Olwë.

As they neared the western coasts of Middle-earth, Thingol came upon Melian the Maia in the wood of Nan Elmoth. Long years passed, and at length he remained with Melian in Beleriand, though many of the Teleri passed West over the Great Sea. With Melian, Thingol founded the woodland realm of Doriath in the central regions of Beleriand, and there ruled the Sindar for many years. Thingol's doom came upon him when Beren brought him a Silmaril from Morgoth's crown as the bride-price of his daughter Lúthien. He summoned Dwarves from the Blue Mountains to set the jewel in the necklace Nauglamír, and the Dwarves became so enamoured of their work that they slew Thingol in his own treasury.

Menegroth

Called 'The Thousand Caves', the stronghold and citadel of Thingol on the banks of the River Esgalduin in Doriath. It was delved in the long years before the rising of the Moon by the Dwarves of the Blue Mountains. Was told to have long halls and high pillars cover in vine, with the only entrance heavily guarded and over a bridge.


The Sindar fought the Sons of Fëanor only once and in the late first age, but it should still be noted of which.


The Valar

'Valar' is the name given to the fourteen powerful spirits who took physical form and entered Arda after its creation to give order to the world and combat the evils of Melkor. They dwelt originally on the Isle of Almaren, but after its destruction long ages before the Awakening of the Elves they removed to Aman and there founded the realm of Valinor.


Lords of the Valar Queens of the Valar (Valier)
Manwë Súlimo
Ulmo
Aulë the Smith
Oromë
Mandos (Námo)
Lórien (Irmo)
Tulkas Astaldo
Varda Elentári
Yavanna Kementári
Nienna
Estë the Gentle
Vairë the Weaver
Vána the Ever-young
Nessa

(The first seven names belong to the lords, the last eight to the queens.)

These are the names of the Valar as they were known to the Eldar in Valinor. In Middle-earth, they were known by other names of Sindarin origin; for example 'Elbereth' for Varda, or 'Araw' for Oromë. Their names among Men are said to be legion.


Manwë
Greatest of the Valar, spouse of Varda and King of Arda; he dwells in his halls on Taniquetil, highest of mountains, and the winds and airs of Arda are under his command. Considered by Illuvatar to be the 'Brother' of Melkor.

Ulmo
Lord of the seas and one of the greatest of the Valar; in the dark days of the First Age, he kept watch on Elves and Men while the others of his order remained in Valinor. He is famed for bringing Tuor to Gondolin, and so ultimately bringing about the downfall of Morgoth in the War of Wrath.

Aulë the Smith
One of the Aratar, the eight greatest of the Valar, Aulë was the Vala concerned with the substance of Arda; rock and metal. As his name suggests, he was also the builder and inventor of the Valar. He constructed Angainor, the chain of Melkor, and the vessels of the Sun and Moon.

In anticipation of the coming of the Children of Ilúvatar, Elves and Men, Aulë went so far as to create a race of his own, the Dwarves. Ilúvatar blessed them with life, but would not suffer them to be born before the Elves, so Aulë set them to sleep in Middle-earth until the Elves had awoken.

When the Elves came to Valinor, the Noldor became fascinated by the lore of Aulë, and became his students. Fëanor was his greatest pupil, and from him learned the craft to make the Silmarils.


Oromë
The Huntsman of the Valar, the brother of Nessa and one of the eight Aratar. In ancient times, he rode often in the forests of Middle-earth, and it was he who first discovered the Eldar at Cuiviénen.


Mandos
The Doomsman of the Valar and keeper of the slain in his Halls in the west of Valinor; his true name is said to be Námo. The spirits of elves gather within his halls where they shall be until Arda is remade after the end of time. The Dwarves beleive that they to go to the halls in a part set aside for them by Aulë their creator, but their fate the elves do not know and none do but the Valar.

Lórien
The common name given to the Vala Irmo, from the gardens in Valinor where he dwelt with his spouse Estë. it may be possible that the Realm of Lórien in Middle Earth was named for him, but it is not known.

Tulkas
The last of the Valar to descend into Arda, and the most warlike; he did battle with Melkor in the years when the World was young. It was only he who was able to defeat Melkor in battle, and afterward Morgoth feared him.

Varda
The Queen of the Stars and spouse of Manwë the King of Arda, great among the Queens of the Valar. She set the stars in the sky, for which the Eldar of Middle-earth revered her, calling her by the name of Elbereth.

Yavanna
Called the 'Giver of Fruits', Yavanna was the Vala whose province was all growing things upon the earth. She was the spouse of Aulë the Smith. Creator of the Two Trees, she also had a big part in the creation of the Ents. For upon hearing that Aulë would also have children (followers who were made after him as Illuvatar made Elves and Men) she went to Manwë and begged him to give her such things. Though He refused at first, she then argued that the dwarves, the men, and even the elves would hem down trees and have little heed for the nature that she had created. And seeing how it destressed her so, Manwë agreed to Create among the Forests "Shepards" to protect the green lands and grow many things. Thus were made the Ents.

Nienna
A Queen of the Valar, the sister of Námo and Irmo, who dwells alone on the western borders of the World. Nienna ranks as one of the eight Aratar, the most powerful of the Valar.

Grief and mourning are Nienna's province; in her halls in the distant west1, she weeps for the suffering of Arda. Her part in the Music of the Ainur was one of deep sadness, and from this grief entered the world in its beginning.

She teaches pity and endurance; though she rarely travels to the joyful city of Valmar, she goes more often to the halls of her brother Mandos to comfort and counsel those in the Halls of Waiting. The Maia Olórin, who was later to travel to Middle-earth as Gandalf, learned much from her.

Nienna played a part in the making of the Two Trees of Valinor; she wept on the mound of Ezellohar, watering it with her tears. After the destruction of the Trees by Melkor, she once again wept on their wounded remains, cleansing the filth of Ungoliant, and helping to bring forth the last fruit and flower that were to become the Sun and the Moon.

The pity of Nienna is most clearly seen in her support for Melkor when he sued for the pardon of the Valar. Though she spends her time in the world mourning for the destruction he has wreaked in Arda, when he sued for release after his three ages of Captivity, Nienna spoke on his part.

Of Nienna's appearance we have almost no knowledge. The only hint is in Quenta Silmarillion 9, Of the Flight of the Noldor, where she 'cast back her grey hood'. Given that Gandalf was her student, this might (though somewhat doubtfully) have some relevance to his title, the Grey.



Estë
A lady of the Valar, the spouse of Irmo, who dwells with him in the gardens of Lórien in Valinor. Not much is told of her.

Vairë
A Queen of the Valar, the spouse of Mandos, who weaves the tales of the history of Arda. She weaves together a great cloth that lines the halls of Mandos, it is here that is written the history of Arda for all time. Most likly so there will always be a record of everything, or so that those who have been slain and now wait in the Halls of Mandos, will not forget who they were and can see how the world has turned and changed.

Vána
A lady of the Valar, the sister of Yavanna and spouse of Oromë. Flowers were said to open, and birds sing, at her passing. Clearly she was told to be of untold beauty, but not much else is said of her role in the history of Middle-Earth


Nessa
The spouse of Tulkas and sister to Oromë, who delights in dancing on the green lawns of Valimar. Though I have researched her, Not much can be found. On this it is clear that she did not play a big part in the first age, or any age covered by Tolkien.

Monk
01-19-2004, 01:25
Quote[/b] (avarin @ Jan. 18 2004,19:17)]Yes my good man, good advice. How about Cirdan and the Havens(?) being a "papist" state too (probably a bad idea, don't know about this one)? We can make them (Valinor) really weak economically so that they spend it all to maintain a few really good units, like when youve got the pope trapped in METW. Good advice for Morgoth.

It would be good to have two valar provinces because the valar could respond with their prohibition of the attacking faction. and could retreat across the sea, and fight the intermittent sea battle to stop Morgoth's forces from taking valinor, I agree with your maritime model 100%.

Thank you,
Avarin
Actually that could work I have just laid out a model of the Valar of who and what they did. Hope that Info comes to good use.

IMHO Cirdan should be an extension of Valinor, though it may not exactly match up with the book, it does add a base for the Valar to enter into beleriand, and allows them to come to the fight against Morgoth first hand.

Gothic_war_monkey
01-19-2004, 19:57
How are you planning to deal with balrogs, dragons etc.? because although I have reservations about "hero" units it won't be Silmarillion:TW without some of those creations of morgoth. Also is there anyway to alter the kings/heirs to allow them to be immortal. Can you also decide the name of the heirs? It would be cool to have some really unique generals along the lines of the nazgul in metw(amazing defense and OK attack to stop stupid situations)

GWM

avarin
01-20-2004, 05:42
Nope, no dragons, no way to do that in the game engine unless they were baby dragons or something http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif .
(Or dragons that looked like trebuchets. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif )

I think a small unit of balrogs(20) should be the command in Angband, but I know this may be disagreable to some, when heirs come to power they will have to have been the most powerful of units to begin with, which were the balrogs. Because leadership would be transfered based on brute strength rather than primogenitor. Although there will be orc generals, I think that the leutentant of Morgoth at Thangorodrim should be a balrog.  Then, my friends, we could use the "king" pics for the balrogs, and the general pics for the orc generals,  such that clicking on the "royal" balrogs brings up a balrog picture, and general an orc picture. Also, we could keep the balrogs limited by not having any production facilities for them, hence, as a balrog unit is decimated through repeated battle, its numbers grow thinner if too much than the "king" balrog dies and Angband loses.  So the balrog will play a huge role in the mod.  The balrogs should be expensive to maintain in large numbers, the dynamic works like this:  Morgoth will want to sacrifice in battle more than a few of the expensive balrogs while cleverly keeping his chief baddy alive, when the leutentant is replaced by a badder baddy (ie king dies, heir takes over),  the new balrog leutentant marches out to lean his unit up. At least that would be one possible tactic for a human player who played the mod as Angband.

Since Angband is using islamic game mechanics it prevents evil princesses of Thangorodrim which would be even more terrible than balrogs.  http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif


Quote[/b] ]Also is there anyway to alter the kings/heirs to allow them to be immortal. Can you also decide the name of the heirs? It would be cool to have some really unique generals along the lines of the nazgul in metw


I will try my best with these ones, need help, but I don't think there is a way, I was thinking an elf king's death could be a "return to valinor" event, unless he was killed in battle in which case it would be a regular mortal death.

I don't know how we would do the Dwarves if we go down these lines though.

Men will use existing protocols for death and heirs.

METW is going to have nazgul that is good news indeed, can't wait

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif ,
Avarin

avarin
01-20-2004, 05:58
Oh alright, maybe dragons, if METW can do nazgul we could do dragons, maybe. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-juggle.gif

Avarin

Strider74205
01-20-2004, 07:29
I don't know if it would be easier to do but some of Tolkien's dragons don't fly. Glaurung for example. But my vote would be towards a more realistic approach. This has been debated many times over on the METW forum. The game itself is more suited to large scale battles with lots of units on screen. To make a "uber" hero unit or something like it simply disrupts the game and takes away valuable bifs that can be used to create more units.

However I think Balrogs would be great to have as a unit for Morgoth's forces. Have maybe 10 per unit and be really expensive but very powerful. We know for a fact that he used Balrogs in warfare since they were much more frequent at this time.

Monk
01-20-2004, 19:15
Balrogs

The Balrogs originated as Maiar, beings of the same kind as Sauron himself. They were primordial spirits of fire that had allied themselves with Melkor in ancient times, and became the most feared of his servants, especially during the Wars of Beleriand in the First Age. Details of their numbers are hard to state with certainty, but there seem to have been relatively few of them - probably no more than seven.

In appearance, the Balrogs were man-like, but fire streamed from them, and they were swathed in dark shadows. They carried whips of flame and induced great terror in friends and foes alike. In the War of Wrath, Morgoth was assailed by the forces of the Valar. Most of the Balrogs were destroyed in that War, but some few escaped over the Blue Mountains and hid in Middle-earth. Durin's Bane, the creature that drove the Dwarves from Moria, was one of these.

Lord of Balrogs, Gothmog

The most powerful of all the Balrogs, one of the chief servants of Melkor, who held an authority hardly less than Sauron himself. A wily commander and fearsome fighter, Gothmog was often accompanied by others of his fiery kind, and at least in the Nirnaeth he had a personal guard of dozens of trolls. His weapon was a great black axe.

The Elves first encountered him in the Dagor-nuin-Giliath, the battle fought under the stars before the first rising of the Moon. In that battle, Fëanor's fury had caused him to draw forward of the main force of the Noldor, and so he came upon Gothmog with only a small guard. Even so, he fought valiantly, and though the armies of the Noldor eventually drove the Balrogs off, Fëanor's wounds could not be healed.

After that first battle, Gothmog does not appear for several centuries. He emerged from Angband to fight in the battle known as the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, the fifth and last battle of the Wars of Beleriand. He brought up a huge army, and drove aside the forces around High King Fingon, and slew the King with his axe. His trolls assailed Fingon's ally Húrin, who he eventually captured and brought back to Angband.

But Gothmog was not indestructible. He took part in (and indeed presumably led) Morgoth's deadly surprise assault on the Hidden City of Gondolin. In the square of the King in the heart of the city, he came upon the Elf-lord Ecthelion of the Fountain. They fought a great duel, and in the end Gothmog and Ecthelion slew one another. So ended one of the most feared denizens of the pits of Angband.

--

There were never a great number of these beasts called Balrogs, in fact i could find little info on their number as stated above, but its been made clear that there never dwelled an All Balrog army.

You Might want to look at making Trolls as soldiers for Melkor (morgoth) and they are said to have been made by him 'in mockery of the Ents'. A good description of Trolls comes in "The Hobbit" i beleive, though not to sure.

theadept
01-20-2004, 20:19
i'd like to help monk with the info
i know quite a bit about the 1st age
i fish i'd knew about this mod earlier

Monk
01-20-2004, 21:00
Quote[/b] (nicolasredfern @ Jan. 20 2004,14:19)]i'd like to help monk with the info
i know quite a bit about the 1st age
i fish i'd knew about this mod earlier
Greetings nicolasredfern and Welcome aboard http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

I've posted Info on the Noldor and Sindar elves, along with the Valar and Some info on the Balrog's Origins. However there is still a lot more to be done and posted, For instance the Dwarves need background info, as does Morgoth in Angband. He has a bit of info from Fëanor's section but there's a lot more, Not to mention the Edain Factions.

I was going to post the Info On Morgoth later on in the day, if you would like you could start on the Dwarves. Or the Edain, which ever you prefere.

Gothic_war_monkey
01-20-2004, 23:40
Quote[/b] ]probably no more than seven

thanks for the info(I had always thought there were far more than seven Balrogs) I guess i just assumed there were more.

avarin, that return to valinor idea is good. It should work a treat.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif Just been reading the Silmarillion again, its inspiring stuff and it seems the first age is more suited to mtw than the third age(still cant wait for metw aswell though)

Is there anyway to make Silmarillion tw so it can be installed on the same game as metw, so for example you could hav first age and third age to pick from? not really bothered about that though.

Lastly hows it all shaping up? Like what is your focus at the moment?

GWM

Monk
01-21-2004, 00:23
Quote[/b] (Gothic_war_monkey @ Jan. 20 2004,17:40)]
Quote[/b] ]probably no more than seven

thanks for the info(I had always thought there were far more than seven Balrogs) I guess i just assumed there were more.
Actually its very possible that before the First age, when Utumno still stood, that the Balrogs were far more numerous. However after the Battle of Powers in which Melkor was captured by the Valar and his fortress destroyed, that only a very small number survived in the deepest dungeons of Angband which, in the Valar's hurry to capture Melkor, did not clear of enemies.

So by the Time Morgoth returned to Middle Earth there was only a very small number of these servants left.

Strider74205
01-21-2004, 04:41
If he had a lot of Balrogs he would have used them a lot more. If you remember, Morgoth only released them as either a last ditch defense or as a final assault force in his attacks. Or when he was REALLY angry (Gondolin). So yeah, not that many left. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

avarin
01-21-2004, 07:28
Can we make a unit of 10 with the engine? I agree totally 20 seems like a lot, especially with how powerful they will be. I just can't imagine not having this uber-unit, in the midst of the thousands of orcs (and trolls). Of course he will be deadly. But It would be folly to risk losing the balrog unit because they would be few (balrog units) we will have to experiment but I would hope no more than three of the units at any one time. It is like in VI when you've got a really good king and don't throw his life away (usually).

I just don't think the Trolls were bright enough to make good generals, I might be prejudiced against Troll generals. They might start eating in the middle of the fray or something (just kidding).

Thanks Monk, GWM, and Strider wish I could buy you a beer http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif .

Yes, thats right about the Trolls, a mockery of the Onodrim(Ents), I wanted to contribute Ents and Huorns as a rebel faction in METW, I think we could have them in ossiriand, or doriath? up to you guys, but it would be fun to try. Or we could make them a regular troop type in the Sindarin armies (a counter-piece to the Morgoth's trolls?) And the Huorns would be like really slow, but could be used defensively to make impassible areas for enemy forces, these huorns would look like trees. { What I'm thinking of course is that Elvish generals could pull of that trick the Huorns did in the Deeping Coomb below Helm's Deep, The retreating orcs would be massacred,trapped between the Elves and the Huorns.} And of course the vaguely homonid Onodrim (Ents). Still with the Ents and Trolls we have to have some type of counter-unit.



Mai govannen nicolasredfern

Namarie,
Avarin

Ellesthyan
01-21-2004, 12:54
What about giving Morgoth 3 Balrogs to start with, and no ability to build more?

Monk
01-21-2004, 19:20
Quote[/b] (avarin @ Jan. 21 2004,01:28)]Can we make a unit of 10 with the engine?  I agree totally 20 seems like a lot, especially with how powerful they will be.  I just can't imagine not having this uber-unit, in the midst of the thousands of orcs (and trolls).  Of course he will be deadly.  But It would be folly to risk losing the balrog unit because they would be few (balrog units) we will have to experiment but I would hope no more than three of the units at any one time.  It is like in VI when you've got a really good king and don't throw his life away (usually).
Yes we can make units of 10, hell we can even make units of 1 http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif . Here is my thoughts:

We give Morgoth a unit of Balrogs to start, around 3 or 5. Imagine the Kensai From STW, The Balrogs should have exelent attack and Exelent defense, but they should be slow as a counter "weight". The Ai could send their balrogs out from Angband along with it's orcs and trolls, but it must be cfareful in battles otherwise they would lose them all.

We should also have their upkeep and training cost to be, well high. I'm going to say 2000 florins just to train and somewhere around 400-600 to keep them. After a couple of units is trained, that is pretty much all that morgoth can afford til he loses some. IMO this is what the units should be organized as for Morgoth.

Orcs - they would be the bottem rung in the unit list, they don't really make strong soldiers against the Noldor and it didn't take long for the Dark Lord to understand that. Divided between sword/spear/and archer classes.

Trolls - They don't appear much but they were made to be a step up from the Orcs, in fact they were said to be the Elite body guard for Gothmog during the Sack of Gondolin. These guys should have some sort of Eliter unit, details can be defined later.

Balrogs - These dreadful servants of the dark first issued from Angband to battle Fëanor, and in so mortaly wounding him. They are spirits of fire, and though not many remain they stil have vast power and strength. A unit of anywhere from 3-5 would be fine, along mwith high training cost and upkeep.

Dragons - Mighty reptilian creatures who ranked among the most feared of the servants of the Dark Lord.Of the origins of dragons, no tale tells; the first of them to be seen was Glaurung, Father of Dragons, who first issued from Angband in the middle of the First Age. I cant see dragons being trained in vast numbers, maybe one dragon could be included and that would be Glaurung. He didn't fly so it might be possible to put him in, but i really don't know. If so he should have very high starting dread and atleast 4 command stars.

Gothic_war_monkey
01-21-2004, 19:35
Ents would be amazing How would the Huorns work? if you manage it you deserve somekind of award

Which units are you working on at the moment avarin?

ALso is there any idea of the exact time the mod will be, I suggest it could stretch from the death of feanor to the war of wrath.

I agree about the trolls not making generals as they are idiots. Also do you want any ideas for unit lists? with the absence of olog and uruk hai it will be harder to give angband a good spread of units.

GWM

Gothic_war_monkey
01-21-2004, 19:44
I think wolf units should be available to angband also and perhaps some men just available to them and not the easterlings(if we are having easterlings).

What is the current thought on realising the valar/vanyar?

GWM

Monk
01-21-2004, 20:19
Quote[/b] (Gothic_war_monkey @ Jan. 21 2004,13:44)]I think wolf units should be available to angband also and perhaps some men just available to them and not the easterlings(if we are having easterlings).
nearly forgot about them, and your right.

As for the Ents, i sugest we put them in the Taur-Im-Duinath. Its a vast forest on the border of Ossiriand.

Strider74205
01-21-2004, 20:51
Ok, I found something else I can do for the mod.  I found some great heraldric symbols for the Elves and the Edain houses that we can use for faction flags and menu shields.  So I can convert those and whatnot, i'm in the process of obtaining permission: they are not the ones drawn by Tolkein himself but they are based on his work and look really awsome.  Once I get permission from the author we just need to decide what our factions are going to be, and which MTW ones they will overwrite. I can also do the names.txt while I'm at it once we decide.

Also will we be using Viking Invasion or not.  It doesn't matter to me as I have it, but i need to know before I start making flags.

Gothic_war_monkey
01-21-2004, 23:04
i also have vi and i think the mod should be on this because of the ability to customise faction colours+ other fixtures. Once you get more units done can i be involved in the balancing process? i have been playing much more single player and mp recently so im getting more experienced. Im beginning to sound like a broken record here but can you think of any jobs for me to do? For example could I have a go at some unit descriptions?

Overkeen, underskilled, GWM http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif

avarin
01-22-2004, 06:45
Quote[/b] ]Ok, I found something else I can do for the mod. I found some great heraldric symbols for the Elves and the Edain houses that we can use for faction flags and menu shields.

I've made some already, jawanna look? - sending you the TGA's anyway I'll bet you might improve on them, I love your idea.


Quote[/b] ]We give Morgoth a unit of Balrogs to start, around 3 or 5. Imagine the Kensai From STW, The Balrogs should have exelent attack and Exelent defense, but they should be slow as a counter "weight". The Ai could send their balrogs out from Angband along with it's orcs and trolls, but it must be cfareful in battles otherwise they would lose them all.


Who gets to be leadership in Angband if not Balrogs? Yes you are correct, Berzerkers for example are a 12-man unit.
I think they should be fast enough to squash fleeing stunties and fairies, that would be so cool . http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif


Quote[/b] ]I think wolf units should be available to angband

Of course, my dear friend wouldn't think of not giving the bad guys a cavalry unit or two.

Thanks you guys
Avarin

Strider74205
01-22-2004, 22:43
Hey Everybody, I hope you don't mind but I took the Liberty of creating us our Own Website (a small one) and a forum for Silmarillion: Total War. They're very simple so far but i'll be adding lots of stuff in the future hopefully.

Silmarillion: Total War (silmaril.50megs.com)

Gothic_war_monkey
01-22-2004, 23:24
I must say that strider has done a very good job of both the site and the forum It looks really professional and would give the mod a great start and focus point.
Avarin could I have a go at some unit descriptions and post them here or on the new forum?

GWM

Monk
01-23-2004, 00:42
Quote[/b] (Gothic_war_monkey @ Jan. 22 2004,17:24)]I must say that strider has done a very good job of both the site and the forum It looks really professional and would give the mod a great start and focus point.
I agree, great job strider  http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Now back to work  http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif

Ents - Onodrim

Tree-Herds, Evidently trees inhabited by spirits summoned by the thought of Yavanna to be the guardians of the olvar until the Dominion of Men. The nature of the Ents was closely connected with that of the trees they protected and the Tree spirits (Huorns) they guarded. The Ents awoke at the same time as Elves; the Eldar gave them the desire to speak and taught the Quenya and Sindarin. In the First age the Ents Roamed Through Beleriand and the Eastern lands, although they enter into history only once, when they helped destroy the Dwarves of Nogrod who had sacked Menegroth.

Sometime in the first or second age the male and female Ents became estranged; the Entwives crossed Anduin and tended their favorite plants-small trees, grasses, fruit trees, flowers, and vegetables-in what was later called the brown lands, while the male Ents tended their larger trees, especially in the great forest that stretched from the Old forest to Fangorn. The Entwives were greatly honored by Men, to whom they taught the skills of agriculture, but sometime before the end of the second age their gardens were destroyed and they vanished.

An Ent looked like a fourteen-foot-tall cross between a tree and a Man. Ents resembled different trees; individual Ents cared for and honored the trees that they looked like and, to a certain extent, possesed the personality one might expect of that tree. Ents did not die naturally; their skin was extremly tough, but they could be burned. Ents thought slowly and were slow to act, but once aroused they possesed the strength of the age-long action of trees compressed in a few second; they could crack rocks and move large heaps of earth quickly. Ents were nourished by Ent-draughts.

The Ents spoke in Entish. They also knew many other launguages bvut prefered Quenya, which they spoke after the same fashion as they did Entish. The Name "Ent" was given to them by the people of Rohan, and means "Giant" in Old English. They were called Onodrim or Enyd in Sindarin by the Elves; the singular was Onod.

insolent1
01-23-2004, 01:42
I'd like to help, I have good silmarillion knowledge. I've made some maps for STW & MTW & i've messed around with historical generals a lot. I'd also like to make a suggestion regarding the Human faction
Maybe instead of a faction we could have an event ie the arrival of men which would allow all the factions access to human units. Maybe even with a few different kinds for the different factions. I do think this would be a better reflection of mens roll at the time. I think this could be easily done using the built in periods of MTW.
Anywayz good luck with the mod http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

avarin
01-23-2004, 05:36
Quote[/b] ]Avarin could I have a go at some unit descriptions and post them here or on the new forum?

GWM

Conralius has agreed to do some too, you guys should talk.  I think we will get the best result by being as democratic as possible, there is not that many of us so we can pull together.

Strider, Awesome, I can't thank you enough now we're moving

I'm focussed on basic Bif's now that I would like to see make the final cut (rank and file types). If there is a unit we really want I will be happy to make it. If there is someone else to make unit animations and we overlap we can vote which one we want.  If I make a BIF we can't stand for some reason we can scrap it and do better.  I am only interested in doing the best with this we can and not alienating anyone who wants to help.


Quote[/b] ]I'd also like to make a suggestion regarding the Human faction Maybe instead of a faction we could have an event ie the arrival of men which would allow all the factions access to human units. Maybe even with a few different kinds for the different factions. I do think this would be a better reflection of mens roll at the time. I think this could be easily done using the built in periods of MTW.


Thank you insolent1.  It may be more accurate.  This was my thinking originally, but would they have elvish generals?  What do the others think of this?  I still like the idea of having two human factions (good men and bad men) that are weak at the start and in the "far east" of Beleriand.  

I'm off to see the new 'site,
Thanks Strider http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif
Avarin

Emp. Conralius
01-23-2004, 19:41
By all means GWM, write as you please http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

avarin
01-26-2004, 08:30
The mod is off to a good start, come to our forum at
http://silmarilliontw.proboards21.com/index.cgi
See you there

Namarie,
Avarin

theadept
02-25-2004, 14:26
come on join
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif

Gothic_war_monkey
02-25-2004, 20:00
LoL, there is likely to be less support for smtw than there is for say metw as there are no films The link is up here and various other places so if people are interested by all means come along.

GWM

Lord Of Storms
03-15-2004, 02:40
Moved to the new mod development forum currently called Edit3 you may follow this topic there. thanks...LOS

[{LgtDiv}] Lord Thindigital
03-20-2004, 14:59
I think this mod sounds great - and the METW - i await them with anicipation :)

will there be werewolves for angband?

great work

regards

LTD

Sir Zack de Caldicot
03-20-2004, 18:53
So, any work done reciently on models which I think is the major component of a Fantasy mod or are you just working on .txt files and shields?

Monk
03-21-2004, 04:02
Quote[/b] ([{LgtDiv}] Lord Thindigital @ Mar. 20 2004,08:59)]will there be werewolves for angband?
Yes, Morgoth will have werewolves, along with Balrogs, Trolls, and Orcs.


Quote[/b] ]So, any work done reciently on models which I think is the major component of a Fantasy mod or are you just working on .txt files and shields?

SM:TW forums (http://silmarilliontw.proboards21.com/)

thats our forums, though there isn't much activity in the public area we do answer any questions that arise.

screens (http://silmaril.50megs.com/photo.html)

they havn't been updated in a long time but here's a few screenies. We're still alive and working, even so it will take a long time til it is finally finished. When it is however, i'm sure you will be pleased.

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_bow.gif

Sir Zack de Caldicot
03-21-2004, 18:01
http://silmaril.50megs.com/images/00000037.jpg

Like the looks of those

Sir Zack de Caldicot
03-21-2004, 18:04
http://silmaril.50megs.com/images/00000027.jpg
Who made these excellent men?

neogerry
03-22-2004, 05:21
very good http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Polyphemos
03-22-2004, 05:57
They look like a really nasty bunch. Great work with the new Noldor and goblin units as well

Antalis::
03-22-2004, 07:51
Very impressive units http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif .

When will you release a beta?


Antalis

Sir Zack de Caldicot
03-22-2004, 12:37
Um.... These arn't my units that I made. I simply got them off of there website visit-able Here ( screen shot page) (http://silmaril.50megs.com/photo.html). Sorry if you thought wrong but I was simply showing the public the screens here.

PS: Monk or one of the other modders of this great mod can tell me If they want them deleted, sorry?

PPS: BUT THEY SURE ARE GREAT

Polyphemos
03-22-2004, 13:58
No, it’s Avarin who’s creating the silmarillion units, so I blame him for ruining my keyboard by making me drool all over it  http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif .

Monk
03-22-2004, 20:27
Quote[/b] (Antalis:: @ Mar. 22 2004,01:51)]When will you release a beta?
I'm not entirely sure, but keep an eye on this space. I do know that a beta is in the works and will be similiar to the ME:TW beta with two armies in custom battle. (i prob shouldn't be telling you this but i see no harm in it)

We will do our best to get a beta out but we're not going to rush anything, as the saying goes good things comes to those who wait, or in this case, hordes of orcs fall upon those who wait. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif


Quote[/b] ]PS: Monk or one of the other modders of this great mod can tell me If they want them deleted, sorry?


You can keep them here, it's no problem.


Quote[/b] ]Who made these excellent men?

Well first off those are our orcs, and i doubt they would like being called men http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif . To answer your question avarin is doing the units.

Brianbbj
03-22-2004, 20:51
Who do this mod not work together with the ME:TW mod? actully you could borrow units from each other. many units are similar like orcs and trolls.

all kinda cooperation could be made, and possible the best thing is that it could speed up both mods.

Why not put it in the same mode, at different time ages, like in the original game. ie different campaigns..??

Monk
03-22-2004, 21:07
Quote[/b] (Brianbbj @ Mar. 22 2004,14:51)]Who do this mod not work together with the ME:TW mod? actully you could borrow units from each other. many units are similar like orcs and trolls.

all kinda cooperation could be made, and possible the best thing is that it could speed up both mods.
We were cooperating with the ME:TW team, avarin was helping them with unit animations but has sense returned to work on the main SM:TW project.


Quote[/b] ]Why not put it in the same mode, at different time ages, like in the original game. ie different campaigns..??

We can't merge the two mods because their is only a limited number of BIFs we have to work with, and if we tried to make these two mods into one then we wouldn't have enough. At the moment, our mod is looking at around 8 playable factions, and besides the three Noldorin Factions the others will be completely different when it comes to fighting style and unit type, so i doubt we will have enough bifs to do a merge with me:tw.

Sir Zack de Caldicot
03-23-2004, 00:48
Thanks a that fruitful information MONK

PS: @ The Men in the picture

Orc: *Growl*

Sir Zack: I mean orcs

Scipio
03-23-2004, 00:52
Hey I dont know how this mod scipped Scipio's eyes but I haven't noticed this mod till now... When is this mod out? Or is it already available? I have the bookbut have only read a couple of the stories as I find some of the stories hard for an intellectually chalenged male to understand/follow...

Sir Zack de Caldicot
03-23-2004, 01:10
As Monk just stated a beta will be avaliable shortly

Scipio
03-23-2004, 01:11
Monk is building this? Way to go Monk  Maybe from now on all betas should be just for Lore clan members...

Monk
03-23-2004, 01:14
Quote[/b] (Scipio @ Mar. 22 2004,18:52)]Hey I dont know how this mod scipped Scipio's eyes but I haven't noticed this mod till now... When is this mod out? Or is it already available? I have the bookbut have only read a couple of the stories as I find some of the stories hard for an intellectually chalenged male to understand/follow...
It's not out yet, and i can't really say when a beta will be out sense we really don't know for sure. We don't like to make false promises so we work at our own pace completing what we can in the free time we have. I know it will be a long time till the actual mod is completed as the campaign map is still on the Drawing board so to speak. As for a beta though, i really couldn't't say for sure. just keep an eye on our forums (link on page 3 of this thread) any beta news we have will be released there.

As i said before, patience is a virtue http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/ht_bow.gif

Monk
03-23-2004, 01:23
Quote[/b] (Scipio @ Mar. 22 2004,19:11)]Monk is building this? Way to go Monk  Maybe from now on all betas should be just for Lore clan members...
hehe welcome Scip http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

I'm what you'd call a historical advisor for the team. I provide province names, faction and race info, unit types and so on. I keep the team on track with the books as much as i can without taking away from gameplay, it's been tough but we have managed to keep in a lot of good features that i'm sure all of you will love ( Balrogs...got to love em http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wacko.gif )

Mablung
03-29-2004, 02:20
This looks brilliant  I just started reading the thread today (and finished), I am kicking myself for not seeing this earlier and getting involved.  I am sure I could have helped.  Just wanted to add a few ideas if I may.  When men cross Ered Luin (the blue mountains) and enter Ossiriand they could become a faction in themselves.  To reflect how quite a few men became vassals of the Elvish Lords, human units could become available as special mercenaries with a reduced upkeep to make it more realistic.  I have very little modding skills but have read the book numerous times (as well as LOTR).  This mod could become the best when R:TW comes out because with the population factor this would be truly amazing.  For example the Orcs increase in numbers faster than any other faction, the men are middle range and the Elves take the longest to regenerate their numbers.  An idea with a king of the elves/Ulmo - pope idea, if you want Ulmo to play the part of the pope set up a land across the sea.  No boats can cross this land and the end of game comes when the Valar after listening to Earendil's pleas do battle in ME and over throw Morgoth.  There could also be a Sauron hero unit.  A man unit with ranged capabilities to reflect his sorcery?  I have many other ideas and if there is a chance for ideas to still be implemented and you wish for ideas I would be happy to help.  Sorry about the disorder but I was so eager  http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif .  I can't wait for the mod to be finished and I love the units ^^.

Monk
03-29-2004, 02:45
Greetings mablung of the heavy hand



Quote[/b] ]When men cross Ered Luin (the blue mountains) and enter Ossiriand they could become a faction in themselves.

We are looking into this. The Edain will certainly be their own faction, but we're undecided as of now whether the Eldar will have Human Mercs, but we have descussed it.


Quote[/b] ] I have very little modding skills but have read the book numerous times (as well as LOTR)

Then you are like me. i have little/no modding skills but i signed onto the team as an Advisor keeping the team accurate and providing background info, so far it's been fun.


Quote[/b] ]This mod could become the best when R:TW comes out because with the population factor this would be truly amazing.  For example the Orcs increase in numbers faster than any other faction, the men are middle range and the Elves take the longest to regenerate their numbers.

We (the team) have not even discussed an R:TW mod. but i imagine it's something that we will do if at all we keep contact til the fall.


Quote[/b] ]An idea with a king of the elves/Ulmo - pope idea, if you want Ulmo to play the part of the pope set up a land across the sea.

We'll have the Valar in the game (atleast thats what we want to do) and they'll be sitting nicely in Valinor. whether we want them to fight or just sit by we have not decided yet.



Quote[/b] ]There could also be a Sauron hero unit

I'm afraid the game doesn't handle hero units very well, if we did that the Ai would build multiple and would be unstoppable. Sauron will most likely be included as a hero general in command of a unit of infantry or the like.



Quote[/b] ]I have many other ideas and if there is a chance for ideas to still be implemented and you wish for ideas I would be happy to help

We'd love to here all the ideas you have, either post them here on at our main forum. Good day  http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Maedhros
04-03-2004, 05:11
It is coming along nicely.

Will there be different breeds of orc? Lighter and heavier breeds, as well scouts? I was always left with the impression tribes were bread for particular roles.

It would be very cool if you could introduce the dragons. I'd love to see Ancalagon and Smaug. (he was probably a son or grandsome of Ancalagon anyway) I'm assuming the winged drakes won't be able to fly?

Great work.


What factions did you decide on?

Monk
04-03-2004, 05:57
[QUOTE=Quote ]Will there be different breeds of orc?  Lighter and heavier breeds, as well scouts?

As of now there's two breeds, one being goblin, the other...well...Orc. Goblins will be cheap but inefective, Orcs will be stronger, but not by much.


Quote[/b] ]It would be very cool if you could introduce the dragons.  I'd love to see Ancalagon and Smaug.  (he was probably a son or grandsome of Ancalagon anyway)  I'm assuming the winged drakes won't be able to fly

i doubt we could put dragons in, i'm not sure but i don't think it's possible. sorry  http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif


Quote[/b] ]
What factions did you decide on?

eight playables, maybe a number of none playables. those that can be controlled are (so far anyway)


-Sons of Feanor       }
-House of Fingolfin    }---Noldor
-Sons of Finarfin     }
-------
-Sindar
-Edain (not decided if as one or devided yet)
-Morgoth
-Easterlings
-Khazad (Dwarves)

Maedhros
04-03-2004, 20:20
The character and behavior among the three houses of the Edain was fairly consistent.

If one player they could simply have three non contigous states.

The Edain weren't independent anyway, they always had to answer to the elves. Those in Brethil had the most independence, but only so long as they didn't displease Thingel.

Will there be multiple states within each faction? For Example will one player play Cirdan in the Falas, and one play Thingel of Doriath and Ossiriand? OR will one player have both. Thingel was technically king of both, but Cirdan was autonomous.

Monk
04-04-2004, 21:39
Quote[/b] (Maedhros @ April 03 2004,14:20)]The character and behavior among the three houses of the Edain was fairly consistent.  

The Edain weren't independent anyway, they always had to answer to the elves.
Your right, we've been thinking of including Edain mercenaries among the Eldar to show that. Still not sure if that will be implemented within the final game but its possible. Remember these are only the Playable factions, i didn't include the Non-Playables in my list. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-book2.gif


Quote[/b] ]Will there be multiple states within each faction? For Example will one player play Cirdan in the Falas, and one play Thingel of Doriath and Ossiriand? OR will one player have both. Thingel was technically king of both, but Cirdan was autonomous.

As of now, The playable sindar only have Doriath, Ossiriand is a npf (non playable faction) atm, and will most likely be inhabeted by Green elves. Cirdan is a bit undecided as of now. there was talk of putting him playable, then talk of adding it to the sindar, then talk of making him an extension of the Valar. But as of now he isn't selectable and stands on his own.

We're in the process of moving to a new site (strider is making us a new one) so the team (including me) hasn't been around the forums much. News may be slow from now on...slower then usual that is.

Sir Zack de Caldicot
04-04-2004, 21:58
Is Avarin currently working on any new BIF's?
I can't wait to see elves from this mod and dwarves from METW

Monk
04-04-2004, 22:52
Quote[/b] (Sir Zack de Caldicot @ April 04 2004,16:58)]Is Avarin currently working on any new BIF's?
I can't wait to see elves from this mod and dwarves from METW
I'm afraid you'll have to ask avarin yourself about that one, not sure if he still comes to the .org but a PM wouldn't hurt. I myself havn't heard from him, but then again i am only a historical advisor.

_Martyr_
04-04-2004, 23:13
Quote[/b] (Sir Zack de Caldicot @ April 04 2004,05:58)]Is Avarin currently working on any new BIF's?
I can't wait to see elves from this mod and dwarves from METW
Well lets just say that from our end (METW) it won't be too long before we release the dwarves, Hoggy is doing AMAZING work... and thats all I will say about that http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif

Mablung
04-07-2004, 05:35
@ Monk, is it possible to make Sauron a one off unit that can't be built? With the leaders of the factions - Fingolfin, Elwe Singollo (Thingol) etc. Is it possible to extend there life spans to reflect the large amount of time they rule? There are also other rulers so just having one name and one set of stats could be a bit iffy http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif. Heroes in themselves: there will be a lot of heroes with great/mighty/famour warrior? Am I right? Or have you not got up to this stage?
On Sindar units, in the provinces Region, Doriath, Neldoreth and the ones that make up Ossiriand and Lindon, (I think) a unit similar to the Sherwood Foresters should be buildable. The Green Elves of Lindon were especially known for their wood craft - this unit could also be used for Nargothrond, emulating their ambush tactics until Turin Turambar arrived with Gwindor. In the heavily forested kingdom of Doriath cavalry should not be able to be built but, Thingol's faction should be able to build cavalry on open ground. This is because it would not have been possible (probably) to raise sufficient horses in the woods.
Sorry about the time to reply but my internet was corrupt and needed to be fixed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-computer.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif

TigerVX
04-07-2004, 05:40
Also, Hiers of elves should be rare (Once every 100 years?) If you can make the elven Kings and Generals immortal because they don't breed as much as men =P. I've had my eye on this mod for a while, and its looking good.

Mablung
04-07-2004, 05:44
Good idea TigerVX, I was thinking in order to reflect all Elves prowess, especially the Calaquendi (Elves that went to Valinor), in battle the Elves could have an extra health point. This could also represent Elven healing. Of course in order to balance this Elvish units would cost more. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Monk
04-07-2004, 06:04
Quote[/b] (mablung of the heavy hand @ April 07 2004,00:35)]
wow...going on 1 am and i'm here at the .org... i should try to answer these questions.


Quote[/b] ]Monk, is it possible to make Sauron a one off unit that can't be built?

We will look into this if we have enough BIFs left over after we make all the other units. As i have said before, there's only a limited number to work with. all in all i couldn't say if we will do this or not.


Quote[/b] ]With the leaders of the factions - Fingolfin, Elwe Singollo (Thingol) etc. Is it possible to extend there life spans to reflect the large amount of time they rule?

Damn i seem to remember reading about this over at the me:tw forums, but i forget what they said. i'll raise the question at our forums just to make sure i have my facts right and get back to you on this.


Quote[/b] ]There are also other rulers so just having one name and one set of stats could be a bit iffy

Yes, Fingolfin challenged Morgoth and was slain, thus the high kingship passed to his son Fingon, after him came Turgon and then Gil-gilad. They will probably be Famous Kings (changing the hero.txt file) for the noldor, hope that helps.


Quote[/b] ]Heroes in themselves: there will be a lot of heroes with great/mighty/famour warrior? Am I right? Or have you not got up to this stage?


Expect to see favorites like Hurin and Huor, Turgon, and Fingolfin, all ready to do battle. this is again possible by editing the heroes file around. We can also dictate what stats and v&v they start with so somebody like Fingolfin might have mighty warrior.


Quote[/b] ]On Sindar units, in the provinces Region, Doriath, Neldoreth and the ones that make up Ossiriand and Lindon, (I think) a unit similar to the Sherwood Foresters should be buildable. In the heavily forested kingdom of Doriath cavalry should not be able to be built but, Thingol's faction should be able to build cavalry on open ground.

we've already hammered out a decent unit list for each faction. I won't go into any detail other then saying, you'll be happy with the sindar.


Quote[/b] ] Sorry about the time to reply but my internet was corrupt and needed to be fixed http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-computer.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif

thats ok...


Quote[/b] ]in battle the Elves could have an extra health point. This could also represent Elven healing. Of course in order to balance this Elvish units would cost more

as far as i know this isn't implemented.



Quote[/b] ]Also, Hiers of elves should be rare (Once every 100 years?) If you can make the elven Kings and Generals immortal because they don't breed as much as men

again..i'm looking into to make sure i have the facts right, i'll get word from the rest of the team to be sure.

Mablung
04-07-2004, 10:15
Cheers Monk for that clear up http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif. Can you say whether the Nolder units will be stronger stats wise? This would reflect there superior weapons and armour (excluding those the Sindar obtained by trade with the Naugrim). It is also said that those Elves that experienced the light of Telperion and Laurelin were stronger in the body and wiser than the Moriquendi (Elves that never experienced the light). Sorry about all the questions http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif .

Monk
04-07-2004, 13:22
I'm still waiting on a reply to get the facts straight about ruler age, but i might as well answer these questions that you have presented.


Quote[/b] ]Can you say whether the Nolder units will be stronger stats wise?  This would reflect there superior weapons and armour

The Noldor will be the heavy hitters of the elves, with the best heavy infantry. These guys will be chewing up orcs and spitting them out like no ones business At the moment we are looking at three Noldorin Factions: The House of Feanor, House of Fingolfin, and the Sons of Finarfin, each with its own unique Royal cavalry unit and the general Noldor units. Their only drawback is the lack of light infantry.

The Sindar are exactly opposite in contrast, they have very good light and medium infantry, but no heavily armored forces. That may sound as a weakness, but they can use this as a great advantage.  They have the best bowmen to counter the heavily armored forces of the Noldor and a good mix of medium infantry to stand up to a charge of Orcs or Eldar, whichever they may be.

now that i have told you about the Sindar, i might as well tell you about the Khazad (dwarves).

The Khazad are much like the Noldor, yet unlike their Eldar friends, the Dwarves have no cavalry in this age. Their forces consist of entirely heavy infantry wielding a range of weapons. While the lack of cavalry may seem like a weakness their powerful infantry allow them to salvage victory against overwhelming odds. And as the only faction not afraid of Balrogs, they could prove to be an extremely powerful ally.

TigerVX
04-07-2004, 17:20
Hurin Hm? Wonder if he'll live up to his name and be able to slay 70 Gothmog Troll Guard Day shall come again http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif . Thanks for the recap monk. I've been think about making a map or two for this mod. Better start reading the Sil over again =P

TigerVX
04-07-2004, 22:55
I got bored today so I made a beta for Gondolion. Its still incomplete, like I need to add the mountain textures and the outside of Gondolion is a barren plain http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif


The Hidden City of Gondolion on the inside
http://www.angelfire.com/comics/destinyofprelude/Gondolion1.gif

Outside view
http://www.angelfire.com/comics/destinyofprelude/Gondolion2.gif

View from a Catapult Tower
http://www.angelfire.com/comics/destinyofprelude/Gondolion3.gif

I'm new, so I image its crap =P.

Ellesthyan
04-07-2004, 23:17
Looks great Although I think two others have already created a map of gondolin http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif Your approach is really interesting tho.

Mablung
04-08-2004, 04:01
Just a suggestion for the Sindar, they could have one heavy infantry unit. The build requirements would be high, something like spearmaker's guild, armourer's workshop and merchant. The merchant reflects that the weapons and armour were (mainly) bought from the Naugrim.

Monk
04-09-2004, 02:46
Quote[/b] (mablung of the heavy hand @ April 07 2004,23:01)]Just a suggestion for the Sindar, they could have one heavy infantry unit.  The build requirements would be high, something like spearmaker's guild, armourer's workshop and merchant.  The merchant reflects that the weapons and armour were (mainly) bought from the Naugrim.
I'll pitch the idea to the team, it sounds great imo and just what the sindar will need in the fight against Morgoth. Good sugestion mablung

octavian
04-09-2004, 20:59
Quote[/b] (TigerVX @ April 07 2004,18:55)]I got bored today so I made a beta for Gondolion. Its still incomplete, like I need to add the mountain textures and the outside of Gondolion is a barren plain http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif
I'm new, so I image its crap =P.
this is certainly not crap tiger, however, i dont think that gondolin was hidden inside a mountain, but rather, on top (talk about hiding in the open) with a tunnel entrance leading up to it. i'll have to go read the history of middle earth and the silmarillion again

Monk
04-09-2004, 23:22
Quote[/b] (carsolan @ April 09 2004,15:59)]
Quote[/b] (TigerVX @ April 07 2004,18:55)]I got bored today so I made a beta for Gondolion. Its still incomplete, like I need to add the mountain textures and the outside of Gondolion is a barren plain http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif
I'm new, so I image its crap =P.
this is certainly not crap tiger, however, i dont think that gondolin was hidden inside a mountain, but rather, on top (talk about hiding in the open) with a tunnel entrance leading up to it. i'll have to go read the history of middle earth and the silmarillion again
Gondolin was founded upon the hidden field of Tumladen, a valley that was enclosed by the Encirling Mountains. It was not Inside nor ontop of a mountain, but rather in a valley amidst great mountains. It's skies were guarded by Thorondor, the King of eagles, and the only path in was heavily guarded.

Another great citadel that was built inside a mountain was that of Nargothrond. but that isn't what we are talking about.

octavian
04-10-2004, 01:29
oops, my bad, i should know that after all my LoTR readings

Strider74205
04-10-2004, 21:57
ha, knew i should have checked this thread more often. more dicussion going on here then over at our forums, lol.

anyways, interesting looking gondolin there TigerVX, looks like your getting the hang of the editor, sorry i couldn't talk last time. We have actually a couple different versions of gondolin floating around but if you ought to take on a different area of Belleriand, we'd love any help.

Mablung
04-12-2004, 06:08
Nargothrond was built in the gorge formed by the river Narog.

Monk
04-12-2004, 06:17
Quote[/b] (mablung of the heavy hand @ April 12 2004,01:08)]Nargothrond was built in the gorge formed by the river Narog.
Nargothrond



The Noldorin kingdom of Finrod in West Beleriand and the underground halls which were its chief fortress and palace. The Caverns of Narog on the west bank of the Narog under the High Faroth were first delved by the Noegyth Nibin (Petty Dwarves), who named their halls Nulukkizidun. In the first century of the return of the Noldor Finrod was advised by Ulmo to make a refuge, and he, desiring to delv halls of the Model of menegroth was told of the Caverns by Thingol.

Built by the Noldor of Finrod and the Dwarves of the Ered Luin, Nargothrond was both fair and impregnable, and from its halls Finrod ruled the largest of the Noldorin realms, all the way from Sirion and Teiglin in the east to Nenning in the west.

Yes it was within a gorge, but also delved into the mountain.

Mablung
04-12-2004, 06:26
Indeed Monk, at the same time that Ulmo bade Finrod to make a refuge of strength and secrecy, he also bade Turgon to do so as well. Thus the realms of Nargothrond and Gondolin came about. They were oft had the chief share of Morgoth's thought and worry. As long as they stood doubt gnawed Morgoth.

Monk
04-12-2004, 06:35
Possibly the finest realms made by Elves in Tolkien's universe. Yet the treachery of Maeglin, and the weak mind of Orodreth allowed both cities to be lost; the doom of the Noldor  http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/frown.gif

Mablung
04-12-2004, 07:07
True, Gondolin is mentioned as rivalling Tirion upon Tuna, not a small feat. While on the subject of Gondolin are their spear unit similar to a hoplite?

DeadRunner
04-12-2004, 20:06
when the beta is released m8´s ??

Monk
04-13-2004, 00:31
Quote[/b] (mablung of the heavy hand @ April 12 2004,02:07)]While on the subject of Gondolin are their spear unit similar to a hoplite?
If i have my facts right, we plan to have a Special spear unit for gondolin, should be powerful.


Quote[/b] ]when the beta is released m8´s ??

Thats why we never released a date. people get anxious and the pressure is on, not something you want in a Fun mod. Work is still progressing on the mod, we're not all dead yet. A beta is still a while away, still can't give any time estimates, maybe strider could but not I.

TigerVX
04-13-2004, 02:15
I tried another map and took a screenshot, whats your thoughts on it?

Behold The mountain of Himring, Fortress of Maedhros (Ignore the spartans >>)
http://www.angelfire.com/comics/destinyofprelude/00000003_copy.gif

Mablung
04-13-2004, 04:33
Not bad Tiger.  The only problems I have with it that it was the hill of Himring and was surrounded by other hills of lesser height.  The mountains surrounding Himring are also too pointy.  I know I'm being picky but not bad overall.  Instead of Hoplites you could have cavalry as the Sons of Feanor held great strength of cavalry to guard the eastern passes.

TigerVX
04-14-2004, 00:43
I was really just playing HTW, so there are spartans =P

Edit: Did some revisions. I want to keep it like mountains since it makes it have the more mythical look and I image the hills would have been extremely hard to pass besides through Himring. Here are some more Screenies.

Don't worry about all the greek stuff, I only have room for 1 MTW installation for the time being >>.
Overall image of the castle + mountains
http://www.angelfire.com/comics/destinyofprelude/00000005_copy.gif
The Parthian army attacks the gatehouse
http://www.angelfire.com/comics/destinyofprelude/00000006_copy.gif
They are met with a torrent of javilens
http://www.angelfire.com/comics/destinyofprelude/00000007_copy.gif

Sun Tzui
04-14-2004, 17:19
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/jawdrop.gif

When will the beta come out? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-elf.gif

Great Pics BTW http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

Strider74205
04-14-2004, 20:23
Well, technically the ones on page five aren't from our mod they are just from TigerVX's map. But i can confidently say that with a bit of polish (he and I have already discussed it) it will be in the mod.

On that I'd like to encourage anyone who wants to make some silmarillion maps for us to go right ahead and we'll take a look. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

As for a beta it probably will not be for a while, we're not setting a date so we don't get bound by one. When we have enough for perhaps a two-side custom battle only beta (I.E. METW) then we'll announce it.

Again we're always in the market for any help people can give us: mapping, units, anything else.

And everyone do stop by our own forums and our website, our forums are a bit dead right now and we need more people to get them going again.

Scipio
04-14-2004, 20:33
*Shudder* How are you supposed to seige castles like that?? Your men will be falling over therselves before they are up there http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif

It does look nice though http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Mablung
04-14-2004, 23:27
Much better Tiger http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
Scipio, Morgoth has Orcs enough to make a hill of Orcs over the walls at that stage of the Silmarillion. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif
Strider, do you have a Menegroth castle map?

Monk
04-14-2004, 23:56
Quote[/b] (mablung of the heavy hand @ April 14 2004,18:27)]Much better Tiger http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/eek.gif
Scipio, Morgoth has Orcs enough to make a hill of Orcs over the walls at that stage of the Silmarillion. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-dizzy2.gif
Yup thats right. Not to mention the Balrogs to push the Orcs forward in dangerous seiges like this.


Quote[/b] ]do you have a Menegroth castle map?

Not that i know of

Strider74205
04-15-2004, 03:58
Well, having Menegroth itself would be a bit problematic since it was underground. Same with Nargothrond, Nogrod and Belegost. But the terrain around it is feasable, lol.

Mablung
04-15-2004, 06:08
Wasn't it built into the side of a hill? However I can try (that is try) and make a map so it is possible to assault The Thousand Caves of Menegroth.

NormanPain
04-15-2004, 07:03
Silmarillion...God I can't wait...this can only result in the most epic battles ever to be fought in MTW (as they were in Middle Earth as well...) Anyways...how is it going? I wish you lots of luck.

Mablung
04-15-2004, 11:19
Do I need to get a website to post my Menegroth map? http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-help.gif

Strider74205
04-15-2004, 18:10
the map itself or screen shots, cause I can host screenshots for ya

Antalis::
04-15-2004, 19:05
You could upload your screens to Image-Dump:

http://www.image-dump.com/browse.php?x=4

Mablung
04-15-2004, 21:39
Goddamn I have them on image dump and it seems I can't post them here http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif . If someone wants to save those pics and host them then post them here they are welcome to http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-help.gif

Mablung
04-15-2004, 21:43
Goddamn I have them on image dump and it seems I can't post them here http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-furious3.gif . If someone wants to save those pics and host them then post them here they are welcome to http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-help.gif
Image dump (http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=61571)

Image dump (http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=61572)

Please go easy on these as they are my first real play with the editor. It may seem there is a lack of trees but it is the only way I could get smooth terrain.

Polyphemos
04-15-2004, 23:51
Nice map It’s looking really good  http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif .

Strider74205
04-16-2004, 00:31
Looking good so far, I like the surrounding area. We'll have to see what Monk, our resident accuracy dude, has to say.

Mablung
04-16-2004, 00:34
Thanks Polyphemos and Strider74205. It should be fairly accurate as I just read the Silmarillion again - for about the 4th time atleast. I am thinking of making a map for parts of Ossiriand.

Monk
04-16-2004, 01:20
I like it http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

The only thing i have a problem with (aside from it not being inside a mountain of course) is Menegroth was said to be on the banks of the River Esgalduin. Maybe add a river running behind the Neldorath and Region, so if its at all possible i'd like it in there.

Mablung
04-16-2004, 01:30
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif Monk, how about I add a river in front of the castle? It may be inaccurate, I don't know but it would look good

Monk
04-16-2004, 01:34
Quote[/b] (mablung of the heavy hand @ April 15 2004,20:30)]http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/idea.gif Monk, how about I add a river in front of the castle?  It may be inaccurate, I don't know but it would look good
I just checked in some of my books on Tolkien and as i thought the only way into Menegroth was by way of Bridge over a the river. So if you could add in the River and make a bridge over it in front of the Keep, Then we'd be a step closer to reviving Doriath.  http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Strider74205
04-16-2004, 02:18
make sure it plays well, i don't know how the engine will handle a siege map with a river through it, i'v never tried it.

TigerVX
04-16-2004, 02:29
It'll work. But you have to make the river in the center and the castle in the south as defenders usually start south of the river and attackers from the north. Once again, make a river on the SOUTH side of the river, and it should work.

Strider74205
04-16-2004, 04:29
just a typo i'm sure but i think you meant:

Once again, make a castle on the SOUTH side of the river, and it should work

Mablung
04-16-2004, 05:28
Damn I missed your posts. I have made a river but it is behind Menegroth. However, never fear I made two entrances so that the map should play OK. I will check and see if the AI has to cross it. It was too iffy to put the bridge infront of the gate as lining up was a problem as was the smoothness of terrain. The river as straight as I don't think I can make deviations. I have expanded the front of Menegroth and beefed up its defences.

Front view of Menegroth:
image-dump (http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=2&x=11903)

Rear approach to Menegroth:
image-dump (http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=2&x=11904)

View from a farm:
image-dump (http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=2&x=11905)

Strider74205
04-16-2004, 05:31
A word about the castle: It is an Elven city, so you might spruce it up a bit, add some trees, some shaded avenues and such.

Mablung
04-16-2004, 05:37
Will do Strider, unfortunately I will have to take away trees from the river as I have used them all up.

Strider74205
04-16-2004, 05:42
won't take many, i did it on my gondolin map. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

Mablung
04-16-2004, 08:03
Finished adjusting my map.  It now has a proper river infront of the castle.  I will test tomorrow - NZ time  http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif .

Menegroth - river approach
image-dump (http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=2&x=11907)

Menegroth overview

image-dump (http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=2&x=11908)

Menegroth rear overview

image-dump (http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=2&x=11909)

Menegroth side view

image-dump (http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=2&x=11910)

Antalis::
04-16-2004, 11:05
Very nice castle http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

Also the landscape around is well done.


You have talent in mapmaking http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif


Only a small point: There are too many houses in it.
The units will have problems to find theire way through them.

Strider74205
04-16-2004, 15:40
Although I agree with Antalis about there being a bit too many buildings to manuever, the rest looks absolutely fantastic

Mablung
04-16-2004, 21:35
Thank you both. This kind of castle will benefit the Sindar fighting style with light infantry (javelins?) and archers. This was done unintentionally. I will test it as the English high as they will have Longbowmen and Kerns.

Monk
04-16-2004, 22:56
Very well done mablung

Thingol would be proud http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

TigerVX
04-16-2004, 23:14
Also, you might want to replace those artillery towers with City or Ballista towers or the attackers will have no hope of winning.

Antalis::
04-16-2004, 23:27
Yes you´re right TigerVX.

Mablung
04-17-2004, 00:55
Yes, Icare83's Gondolin map needs the same thing to happen. I tried testing it and couldn't get it working. Got to the title where it says the map name and has the begin battle button underneath. The game just freezes up. I tried sticking my crap computer on minimal settings and it still didn't work. The music goes on a loop, the river stops flowing and I can't move the mouse. I tried Icare83's map and it worked fine. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-help.gif

Strider74205
04-18-2004, 01:47
any luck ironing out that bug?

Mablung
04-18-2004, 03:57
Not yet, haven't had all that much time. Might have it working by tomorrow.

NormanPain
04-21-2004, 02:01
Is there any units done? Im really looking forwards to this mod I love silmarillion Anyways...I wish you lots of luck, take care. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Strider74205
04-21-2004, 17:46
There are a couple units done that are available here at the org already, they are called goblin and orc so check the files page. Other than that everything is still being worked on.

NormanPain
04-21-2004, 22:23
K, thanks http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/cheers.gif

Strider74205
04-23-2004, 04:46
just wanted to let everyone know that a rough draft of the new site design is up on my university's server. I had to upload it as an assignment, but i figured i'd let everyone take a look.
Silmarillion: Total War (http://simla.colostate.edu/~kbottrel)

NormanPain
04-23-2004, 08:12
I so hope this doesnt just die off like Middle Earth Total war seems to have...Im really truly interested in this one

The website looks nice, the background is a bit plain though...but still it is pretty good, keep up the good work http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/bigthumb.gif

DeadRunner
04-23-2004, 12:08
when a beta will be released ??

Strider74205
04-23-2004, 20:36
NEVER We are keeping it all to ourselves, hahahahahaha...

just kidding.

seriously though we'll keep everyone updated on our progress and basically when we have enough for 2 sided custom battle beta we'll release it. No time frame yet as we have still have a lot of planning and work to be done before we get that far, but we'll keep you all updated.

NormanPain
04-23-2004, 23:36
Take as long as you need...dont give in to pressure to release it as quickly as possible, rushing is bad...

Strider74205
04-27-2004, 00:40
Hey, everyone come participate in the community FAQ over on our forums.

DeadRunner
05-02-2004, 13:27
I think i will camp in this forum waiting for the release of the beta

Strider74205
05-04-2004, 06:00
all right here's the deal. The SMTW team is the market for a new unit modeler, if anyone is interested please reply here or e-mail me at strider74205@hotmail.com or on our forum at our website here (http://silmaril.50megs.com)

Basically the job description is thus: We need someone to model units and do weapon and shield positioning on said units. Avarin is awsome but unfortunatly he has lots of real-world stuff on his plate, so we need one person or two people to lighten his work load. You won't have to make very many units, at the moment we are only planning four or five basic units per faction, and one royal unit, and a lot of those units can use the same bif just swap out shields and weapons. If we want we can make more later but thats how it stands now. Familiarity with The Silmarillion or any of Tolkien's works is not really necessary, we have concept art by caspian and lots of paintings that we want to base things off of.

I'll be posting this in as many places as I can so we get some good advertising.

NormanPain
05-07-2004, 20:39
Damn...I wish I knew how too make units...Id help you guys in a heartbeat. Know any good unit making tutorials?

TigerVX
05-08-2004, 18:43
Here (http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=26;t=17763) Is a good Unit tutorial about how to change the graphics of units. I tried to read it, but my brain melted and spaltered all over the screen http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif

avarin
06-01-2004, 06:25
Hello everyone I'm back.

It is a pleasure to see that support is still growing for the Silmarillion mod despite my absence. Some of the graphics I'm working on now: I've made the model that I will be using for wargs, and some recent experiments have led me to using multiple models per animation frame, thus, for the goblin dregs at least, the maximum unit size (200) will show 600 goblins per unit in the battle screen. I didn't want to press it further than this because of loss of unit detail. Hence it will be possible to at least by apearances, lead a 10'000 goblin single faction (16 units) army into battle. I have test screenies for those interested.

Progress on all graphics fronts can be expected. I have finished the Noldor infantry but am having trouble with sections of faction specific clothing winking out due to green/color0 overlap, if anyone can help me here I would appreciate it. I plan on writing the elves into the existing game for test purposes, this could lead to our first beta.

Avarin.

Polyphemos
06-01-2004, 07:39
Sounds amazing, Avarin. Looking forward to that beta

avarin
06-06-2004, 05:30
Thanks for the continued support to everyone. Please come join our forum at http://silmarilliontw.proboards21.com/index.cgi
Thanks to Strider for setting it all up, The Goblin-mass unit has been finished, and the result is astounding, however I should stop effacing myself. Now I'm makin' Trolls. I don't know what you all will think of my models but I'm just having fun doing it, it is an honor to work with the Silmarillion team,a great bunch. I can't wait to release the models I'm making but that will be a team decision on how we will release, for now they let me do what I want graphically, and that brings out the best of my creative abilities.

Now back to the depths of Angband Udun, Morgoth Bauglir has special plans for all his children. We shall make a hell of heaven and a heaven of hell.

Avarin.

TigerVX
06-06-2004, 06:24
Quote[/b] (avarin @ June 01 2004,00:25)]Hello everyone I'm back.

It is a pleasure to see that support is still growing for the Silmarillion mod despite my absence. Some of the graphics I'm working on now: I've made the model that I will be using for wargs, and some recent experiments have led me to using multiple models per animation frame, thus, for the goblin dregs at least, the maximum unit size (200) will show 600 goblins per unit in the battle screen.  I didn't want to press it further than this because of loss of unit detail.  Hence it will be possible to at least by apearances, lead a 10'000 goblin single faction (16 units) army into battle. I have test screenies for those interested.  

Progress on all graphics fronts can be expected.  I have finished the Noldor infantry but am having trouble with sections of faction specific clothing winking out due to green/color0 overlap, if anyone can help me here I would appreciate it.  I plan on writing the elves into the existing game for test purposes, this could lead to our first beta.

Avarin.
Now THAT sounds nice. Will each of the 3 Goblin frames have their own weapon to help give that barbaric look? This sounds really cool  http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif .

By the way... Can you post those screenies, I'd love to see the greatest army of our time (MTW wise =P)

scooter_the_shooter
06-10-2004, 20:32
are you going to remake this mod for rtw think of what it would be like http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-surprised.gif

Monk
06-10-2004, 23:36
Quote[/b] (ceasar010 @ June 10 2004,15:32)]are you going to remake this mod for rtw think of what it would be like http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-surprised.gif
Now now, don't be hasty ceasar010. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

I know it'd be great wouldn't it? but first things first. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/wave.gif

Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe
06-22-2004, 21:20
Be sure to use all available source (http://fan.theonering.net/writing/stories/files/100101_kyriel_15sil.html) http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

Louis,

Inuyasha12
06-23-2004, 19:13
I've never read silmarillion(i think it's a book) but i have read LOTR trilogy, and im really looking foward to this mod. It looks like it could be a great one, keep it up.

avarin
06-25-2004, 03:50
That was a good one Luis, I hereby appoint you Grand Inspiritor of the mod. With full privileges thereof, including A lively reading of my collection of Scandinavian credit cards... Or a ticket to The All-England Summarize Proust Competition.

avarin
06-27-2004, 09:44
Screenshots available here:

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/3917/Fight1.jpg
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/8484/Fight2.jpg
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/565/Fight3.jpg
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6166/Fight4.jpg
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/4972/Fight5.jpg
http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1092/Fight6.jpg

For those of you who can't wait. I, Avarin, have made them all. http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/medievalcheers.gif

The Blind King of Bohemia
06-27-2004, 13:48
They look sweet mate http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Polyphemos
06-27-2004, 14:40
Nice looking units indeed.

scooter_the_shooter
06-27-2004, 14:44
holy crap those are some of the best graphics in a mod i seen.

Earl of Sandwich
06-27-2004, 17:38
Looks like someone has at least a 2 gHz processor, as picture five will attest.

Kaiser of Arabia
06-27-2004, 17:54
Now I will definatly be dling this mod when it is released

ah_dut
06-27-2004, 22:32
Quote[/b] (The Blind King of Bohemia @ June 27 2004,15:48)]They look sweet mate http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif
agreed

Inuyasha12
07-05-2004, 02:26
OH MY GOD
that looks great. This mod is going to be so awsome, its right up there with BKB's new mod in my list of must download.
Great job on those units, i never was a big LOTR fans but you might just rekindle that spark.

Keep at it man, hope it's done soon
My fingers tickle with exitement to play this
http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-jester.gif

DeadRunner
07-05-2004, 12:05
amazing job ppl

NormanPain
07-07-2004, 04:40
will each one of the 3 models for each frame have a different weapon in later stages?

Lord Bloodygore
07-07-2004, 05:40
WOW , those are some really great looking units http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

can't wait to try out the mod, keep up the great work guys

Regards LBG http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/smokin.gif

Julius Caesar
07-07-2004, 19:31
Nice Units http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-2thumbsup.gif

Inuyasha12
07-12-2004, 10:13
I have an idea, maybe you could make wizards and they would be used like an artillery unit. You would have like 5 of them in a unit and they would hurl fireballs(or whatever) At the enemy.

What do you think huh?
Can it be done?

Monk
08-03-2004, 22:31
I have an idea, maybe you could make wizards and they would be used like an artillery unit. You would have like 5 of them in a unit and they would hurl fireballs(or whatever) At the enemy.

What do you think huh?
Can it be done?

The Istari, or "Order of Wizards" had not yet been formed in the first age. The Maiar (those who did not rebell) would have stayed in Valinor throught the Wars of beleriand, they had no desire to fight Morgoth, but they might have at the very end of the First age when the Valar attacked the Dark lord in the Great Battle.

This will not be implemented into the game.

komninos
08-19-2004, 16:27
Hi all,

Do you have a working map of Beleriad? Or you are using the standard map of MTW??

I can build one (it depends heavily on my free time though) if you don't have something.

Rikdemedici
10-27-2004, 19:53
i'd like to be a beta tester for this mod, how can i do this?

soibean
11-08-2004, 03:54
any word on this mod? for some reason a lot of mods seemed to have lost all updates over the past few months... did I miss something?

avarin
11-17-2004, 10:48
Naw soibean, I've a feeling interest has waned from monk and strider, and I'm getting married soon so I will not be havin a goodly amount of devotional time to modding. But anyway, I am debating on wether to give the effort to the latest Total War engine, soon I will upload the results from my first attempt at modding a total war game, I'm sorry but all I can provide for you now are the few unique units made for Silmarillion total war.

I wish it were just something done for fun, but the amount of time required doesn't leave much time to do other things in life, especially when you are the soul graphic artist on a project.

It is however rewarding and fun and modders get to live their fantasies of epic battles involving good vs. evil, and get to see the fruits of their own creativity hacking it out on screen. But it does require a commitment that if I promise to make a mod that I have some deliverable to those that like me want such a thing to be, even if it takes years to produce.

soibean
11-18-2004, 01:55
The Istari, or "Order of Wizards" had not yet been formed in the first age. The Maiar (those who did not rebell) would have stayed in Valinor throught the Wars of beleriand, they had no desire to fight Morgoth, but they might have at the very end of the First age when the Valar attacked the Dark lord in the Great Battle.

This will not be implemented into the game.

yea... duh :bow:

and dont worry about how long it takes, you're supposed to have a life outside of this little total war fantasy that everyone has so feel good that you do.

Aenarion
01-07-2005, 19:25
Hi Avarin,

I am interested in taking part in your mod. I have a good knowledge about modding. Well up to you to decide m8!! ~;)

Thanks, :bow:
Aenarion

Astaldor Aglarebel
01-09-2005, 03:20
I, too, would offer what assistance I may. I do not rightly know what programs are required to modify Medieval: Total War, but if someone would explain how to edit it (or where I could find an explanation on how to edit) I would be willing to devote a great deal of time to this mod. I have a vast amount of knowledge regarding the Silmarillion and the First Age of the Sun, and would really like to contribute in any way I could.

Thank you,

Aglarabel

Monk
01-09-2005, 06:26
hey avarin

been a while, how ya been man? ~D good to see you're still alive.

anyway i think i finished all of the Faction backgrounds way back, if there's some you're missing then i'd be glad to write up some more. My interest hasn't died in this project, but i have to admit i havn't checked the forums in a while. Anyway, if you need any more help from me, then i'm more than happy to lend a hand. ~:cheers:

avarin
02-22-2005, 09:44
Well, I have just finished the renders for armored goblins, expect a new set of screenies and units soon. Thanks to everyone for keeping this going, don't worry, I haven't fallen off the earth yet. We have a lot of work yet, but I want to stay loyal to all of you fans for keeping me going.

Currently, I am working on the Balrog and Gaur units, we should keep things as close to Silmarillion as possible so there won't be any warg riders, however the Gaur are werewolves and should fill the pursuit cav. role just fine.

Yes, we shall stick to VI because I can't find the tools and cash to mod Rome, besides with the wedding coming up soon and all I should stick to what I know. There is a War of Beleriand mod for R:TW and it looks very hopeful.

Special thanks to Monk for hanging on with me for so long, his work and research of Tolkien's first age are valued beyond measure, I'm glad to have his expertise, welcome to newcomers(Aenarion) to our project. My plan is to stick with VI for now, and move to R:TW sometime in the future, but a complimentary team of modders has already started I wish them the best of luck.

Great thanks to the Org for making this a sticky, I feel some obligation to your great service now. It feels good, let's try to bring this one to life.

Thank you all
Avarin.
~:cheers:

avarin
03-02-2005, 09:06
Update: SM:TW 3/1/2005

I'm approaching a inflection point in this mod's development. I would like to release a beta soon which will replace three factions in MTW:VI with Goblin Kingdoms, I will call it "The Goblinville Beta" I've finished the werewolves, sorry folks, no balrogs yet. But at least Goblinville will have lots of cool toys to play with and will work in campaign mode too, as if anyone still plays VI except for a few of us lingerers.

After that it's going to be up in the air again, expect what you get from me. I'm doing this purely for artistic pleasure, even if the game engine falls into anachronicity.

:elf:
Avarin

dimitrios the samian
03-02-2005, 12:17
Hello Avarin
Don't give up on the bigger picture ,, hopefully this beta release will re-ignite some interest and perhaps even bring in some new faces like me .
I still play MTW - i have 4 versions on my hd ,, yep VI - Hellenic - FO Rome - Napoleonic .
I have never really been into fantasy So im looking forward to your upcoming release .
cheers ~:cheers:

JR-
03-02-2005, 12:42
i shall look forward to the beta.

avarin
03-06-2005, 10:57
The Goblinville Beta is coming soon!

http://img131.exs.cx/img131/9624/000000045in.th.jpg (http://img131.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img131&image=000000045in.jpg)

http://img132.exs.cx/img132/606/goblinville13ac.th.jpg (http://img132.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img132&image=goblinville13ac.jpg)

avarin
03-06-2005, 10:58
I hope you guys can see this, I've still got some loose bits to tie up but its coming together as far as graphics, language and sound files.

:charge: Avarin

Pericles
03-07-2005, 00:36
I hope you guys can see this, I've still got some loose bits to tie up but its coming together as far as graphics, language and sound files.

:charge: Avarin

Beautiful work!

Looking forward to it
:charge:

Monk
03-10-2005, 02:54
Avarin! ~D greetings...

good work; i really like the look of the units. They look fantastic! I can't wait to see what you can do with the elven factions :medievalcheers:.

if you ever need help on something shoot me an email or find me on msn. I'm sure you still have my info yes? if not both are here at the .org. I doubt you still need my help, looks like you're on the right track, but if you ever do then don't hesitate to ask.

avarin
03-12-2005, 11:49
http://img137.exs.cx/img137/3695/bolg3bn.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

Hello Monk, thank you very much, I don't doubt I will continue to need your help, I found a few references to the use of orc wolf riders in the First Age in the text of Sil., I should have just asked you instead of believing someone's (incorrect) hearsay. So- we will have them.

Now, who's that bloke in the middle?
~:cheers:

Namarie,
Avarin

Icare83
03-12-2005, 18:50
~:eek: Fantastic ! Glad you keep working on this mod !

maximus decimus meridius
03-12-2005, 23:21
~:eek:

...... A Balrog !!??!!

Avarin maybe have you made also a dragon?

avarin
03-15-2005, 08:40
It can be done Maximus, but I don't want to spoil all the fun, lets keep it secret for now ~;) , Ah yes, Glaurung, the father of the fire-worms. I think I'll keep it a suprise. LOL.

maximus decimus meridius
03-15-2005, 10:41
Great !

~:)

Aenarion
04-20-2005, 21:06
Hi guys,

I just want to inform u to check out our SM:TW as new screenshots will be posted soon onto the site : http://silmarilliontw.proboards21.com/index.cgi

Thanks, :bow:
Aenarion

Aenarion
05-18-2005, 14:09
Hi Guys,

As I said last time here are some screenshots of the campaign map for the mod. Sorry for the delay but since we are few in the team we have slowed in our work. But don't worry, the mod is progressing.

Here they are:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/anrn/884efe70.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/anrn/92843e4e.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/anrn/a4e05e9b.jpg

Will show more next time. Critics and Comments accepted. ~D

Thanks,:bow:
Aenarion

Aenarion
05-19-2005, 19:21
Anyone?

Icare83
05-20-2005, 11:03
I think you should create a custom campmap tga instead of editing the standard map.
http://www.tolkiens.net/bilder/kart/beleriand4.jpg

Aenarion
05-20-2005, 16:44
as a sketch or as the normal ampaign? Still, what do u think about the pics?

GeneralTildor
05-20-2005, 19:36
Is there a mod out yet, when will it be. I want to play it,

Aenarion
05-21-2005, 09:38
lol! yes a mod will soon be out. The Goblinville mod. It's just a beta of the custom games section.

Thanks,:bow:
Aenarion

Radier
05-21-2005, 13:42
Aenarion will you use the european map or a silmarillion map?

The units look very good by the way ~:cheers:

Aenarion
05-21-2005, 14:46
I will use a silmarillion map of course. :D

Radier
05-21-2005, 16:10
Yeey! ~D

Aenarion
05-22-2005, 08:45
Here is just a small map of Beleriand in MINIMAP Format:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/anrn/c5316c30.bmp

And here is a picture showing the weather battle selection. I know maybe it's not that important, but it adds a touch of style to the mod: ~;)

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/anrn/cda58cb4.jpg

Thanks, :bow:
Aenarion

Radier
05-22-2005, 09:49
They both look cool Aenarion ~:cheers:
I like the think about the weather.

tutankamon
05-24-2005, 10:33
Looks faaaantasstic ~:eek: when will it be finished??? and how will the map be??? not to mention the buildings?? ~:cheers:

Aenarion
05-24-2005, 16:10
Thanks guys for your support. Right now I am busy doing my exams, but after the coming two weeks the mod progress will be fast.

I will show you new screenshots of the campaign map. We're not sure exactly when it will be released FULLY. But a beta will soon be out, so don't worry! ~D

Thanks, :bow:
Aenarion

HahnHolio
06-06-2005, 10:14
this looks promising ...
hope u will release this1 !!!

greetz

HahnHolio

Aenarion
06-08-2005, 10:24
Yes thanks m8! Next week I will be ready from exams and will dedicate my holidays to this mod!! Just some patience pls! ~D

Thanks,
Aenarion

Radier
06-08-2005, 17:13
Yeah! ~:cheers:

Aenarion
06-23-2005, 09:03
Hi guys!

Requesting assistance in the mod. We need modellers and campaign experts. Pls reply!

Thanks,
Aenarion

barocca
07-01-2005, 08:51
a little more detail please?

what type of modelling?
ie - which units?

campaign experts?

Aenarion
07-02-2005, 11:10
Campaign experts - people who think they can help in modding the campaign map.

Modelling units - **request pending for now**

Thanks, :bow:
Aenarion

Soulforged
08-11-2005, 02:06
Will RTW be modelled to do this more fun (personally) or you will continue to do it on MTW.

Aenarion
08-11-2005, 09:48
We will continue modding on MTW (obviously). Two reasons why we cant make this mod for RTW is because:
1) we don't have the necessary tools (ex:3ds Max)
2) a mod for RTW is already in progress. **sry cant provide a link cos i forgot it! ~:handball: **

Thanks,
Aenarion

Aenarion
10-09-2005, 16:42
Just a small update after a long, long time without posting. The mod is not dead!~:)

Here i've got a list of maps that have been or are currently being made:-
Gondolin
Nargothrond
Vinyamar
Barad Nimras
Dwarf Road
Barad Sirion

There are more still under construction but I just won't tell the names right now!~D

Pls check out for more updates soon!
Aenarion

Radier
10-09-2005, 21:34
This is indeed very good news! I´m glad the mod is still alive.

~:cheers:

Pericles
10-09-2005, 23:44
Just a small update after a long, long time without posting. The mod is not dead!~:)

Here i've got a list of maps that have been or are currently being made:-
Gondolin
Nargothrond
Vinyamar
Barad Nimras
Dwarf Road
Barad Sirion

There are more still under construction but I just won't tell the names right now!~D

Pls check out for more updates soon!
Aenarion


Looking forward to it.

MTW is my favourite game, and all these mods have made playing it an entirely new experience.

All the best.

Cheers!

Aenarion
10-13-2005, 19:33
Hi Everyone!

Thanks guys for ur support! :bow: Here is another update...this time I've got some screenshots.

These depict the Army of Morgoth (Orcs and Goblins for now) attacking the Hidden Elven City of Gondolin.

Don't worry about their banners, they will be changed!~:)

Hope u like them!~:)

Credits go to:-
Avarin for the BIFS of the Orcs and Goblins
Icare83 for the Map of Gondolin

The City of Gondolin (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/anrn/TheCityofGondolin.jpg)
Another shot of the City of Gondolin (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/anrn/8d2fe1ce.jpg)
Orcs and Goblins charge to the City (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/anrn/330e979a.jpg)
Orcs and Goblins try and break the gate (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/anrn/d3fdcbff.jpg)
Orcs and Goblins enter through the gate (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/anrn/ecbce80c.jpg)
Orcs and Goblins break in the Courtyard (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/anrn/3f009f21.jpg)
Orcs and Goblins in the streets (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/anrn/e4c112f1.jpg)
Orcs and Goblins approaching main keep (http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/anrn/b6181daf.jpg)

Have fun!~;)

Thanks,
Aenarion

Pericles
10-13-2005, 22:28
Those are amazing pics.

Can't wait for the finished product :charge:

Cheers!

Radier
10-14-2005, 06:05
Realy good work Aenarion!

~:cheers:

GeneralTildor
10-18-2005, 15:18
When is the mod going to be out?

Aenarion
10-18-2005, 16:17
As a whole mod, I guess it will take some time. Though there is a beta in the process to be finished...I will keep u updated on this don't worry!~;)

Thanks for all ur comments,:bow:
Aenarion

Aenarion
01-15-2006, 14:10
HELP WANTED!

Calling for all able modders in our team:-

Map Makers
Concept Artists
Campaign Modding
Unit Modding

If u're interested, pls send me a private message or reply to this topic.

Thankyou,
Aenarion

NodachiSam
01-23-2006, 06:32
Map makers and concept art eh? I'm busy as **** and I have prior commitments to Ilsamiren wars. I did some work recently for the Fall of Rome mod where I re-lettered the campaign map to match the province names. With some spelling errors I bashadly admit.. twice. :oops: I made a copy of the map without text basically and made it as seemless as I could. See http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b173/Calcaneus/example-of-cleaned-map.jpg

Yesterday I was musing that it would be entirely possible to create a new map by snatching and rearanging elements from the original. That is a crazy amount of work though, don't even ask me until summer. The point is that this map http://www.tolkiens.net/bilder/kart/beleriand4.jpg is totaly doable. There are a few sharp mountains in the map but I think they are mostly covered in snow. I havn't tried to make new provinces yet. As well I don't know what is involved with the minimap. Also, you'd need a new map for the campaign selection screen.

If I know what's good for me I will focus on school but I might be able to offer you help some time in the far off future (summer). As I said too, Ilsamiren wars has priority.

Anyways, the reason I came in here was to ask when or if you think you'll have a playable version. Well?

Aenarion
01-23-2006, 19:08
Playable u mean the campaign map? Of course! Everything shall be modded from top to bottom ... leaving none out.

Hope I answered ur question!:juggle2:

Thanks,
Aenarion