Naval Units imbalance

[Australianus]

As an Italian player I find that my gun galleys etc. are having a lot of trouble coping with English Cogs (I am dreading Carracks).
Does anyone have any hints on how to stop them killing my fleet and trade income?

[Phatose]

Ship stats aren't exactly the most relevant thing in the universe. I've modded in superships with 9s in everything, yet they still routinely got sunk by far far lesser boats. In M:TW, two guys in two rowboats could sink an aircraft carrier, no prob.

Just try to make sure you have the numerical advantage, and just as importantly, you have the best commander available. Both those have a lot more effect on the outcome of naval combat then what ships you use.

[NewJeffCT]

always attack when it comes to ships. No matter the difficulty level, if you attack other ships, you seem to win much more. I have had occasions on expert where my 3 ships sank 8 opposing ships in one sea province in one turn when I attacked, but on Normal have had 5 sinks sunk while sinking 0 when I was attacked in one province where the opponent had 2 ships and I had 5.

[Satyr]

I have noticed that command stars seem to be the biggest determining factor in who wins ship battles. Even my weakest ship tends to win any battle with a ship that has less command stars. I would agree that being the attacker helps some too.

[son of spam]

Also use numbers. 2 ships almost always seem to beat 1, no matter if you are attacking or defending.

[Satyr]

I have lost a stack of 8, 1 and 2 star ships to a stack of 3 ships with a 3 star, a 2 star and a no star ship in it. They were pretty much the same stats as my ships so number of ships is not a very reliable indicator of success imho.

However, I have found that I often lose less ships if I unstack them and attack with each ship.

[katank]

satyr, really? I found I get more losses that way but have more chances of intercepting enemy ships.

I find it an interesting tradeoff and only consider splitting up if I heavily out number them.

Also, number are no guarantee. I have had 2 barques get sunk by a single galley and 1 barque sink two galleys. These are with identical star commanders on both sides Naval combat is ever so random.

[gaijinalways]

Hmm, I have always found it better to separate my ships as stacks seem to be easy to sink. Numerical superority seems to be most important, though speed is a factor sometimes. I have had as many as seven ships chasing one a few turns

Are there any ships that players recommend to build (of course it depends on the faction and possibly stage in the game)? I usually build what is cheapest and try to get higher valor if possible (and it's convenient).

[katank]

well, for combat, you only get a shot at the top ship in the stack so by separating ships, you make yours more valuable but have more chances to catch their ships and force combat.

I usually build the cheapest boats too but more expensive ones have lower support and can be cheaper in the long run.

for combat, I use the most basic ships that have the best speed. speed is the best stat IMHO as this enables you to ctach enemy ships and escape combat when you want to.

the only exception is fire galleys which I found extremely useful and powerful.

Deep water ships are good too but I don't use them much for combat. I use them to keep trade routes open. You can travel across the map faster with them though and thus better reinforce weak naval areas.

[son of spam]

Bleh.

In medmod dromons become nearly worthless.

Oh well you can't have everything with a mod... http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/tongue.gif

[katank]

dromons are worthless? when were we discussing dromons? Do you mean fire galleys?

if so, http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/mecry.gif cuz one of my favorite ships is no longer so great.

[castle]

ships are a pain sometimes 2 ships with a 2 star general are beaten by one ship with a no star general. Then when you are trying to eliminate the last enemy ship the ai will not let you do it. meanwhile trade income dives with every turn.

[katank]

these times, you should send half dead peasant unit to take on huge enemy stack of RKs or something and autocalc it for a really bad loss on the same turn as you attack with ships.

the comp feels sorry for your miserable loss on land and hence gives you easy naval victories. This is exactly how my lone curragh took out three snekjjas.

cheesy tactic courtesy of a friend.

[Thon]

i gave up on trying to understand naval battles a long time ago http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-wall.gif